Factoring F14, a digression
 

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]Given the level of effort that has already been applied, and given the size of F14, I can make a good case for suggesting that it is rather improbable that we can succeed in factoring F14 with existing methods.

I suggest putting it aside and applying the CPU time to something with a higher chance of success.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]If it were EASY then it wouldn't be worth doing.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm....:ernst:

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]Especially those members of the "instant gratification generation".
....
It is too bad that you and others fail to understand this. Maybe you will understand when you grow up.[/QUOTE]Hmmm......:ermm:

Interesting, isn't it, Uncwilly? I noticed the same things.

[QUOTE=Jwb52z]Interesting, isn't it, Uncwilly? I noticed the same things.[/QUOTE]


It's too bad that you have not noticed that a major effort has *already* been
applied to F14.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly]Hmmm....:ernst:

Hmmm......:ermm:[/QUOTE]

Typical moronic argument.

I argue that one should apply a diligent effort to problems, rather than
expecting an easy answer and someone then jumps to the opposite extreme
and asks why I suggest stopping an effort for which a very large effort has
*already* been applied and which is probably infeasible at this point in time.

Yup. Put up a straw man by jumping to the opposite extreme.

It is one thing to be diligent. It is another to keep pursuing something
after evidence suggests that success is rather improbable.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]Typical moronic argument.[/QUOTE]
That's odd, I made no arguement. I mearly posted quotes taken in reasonable context. They seemed to be conflictory. Thanks, for the personal insult, want to trade IQ's? The icons that I used were meant to denote thought. Do you think that my personal arguements tend to be moronic? Or did you think that the arguement was typical of a moron? (Remember that words like that have fallen out of favour with the communities that deal with those that are called "special").

You also should take note that I did not publish those quotes in a medium that prevents you from responding. Rather, you should thank me for bring this issue, that others also thought of, to the fore, thus providing you a non-selfserving way of clarifying.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]I argue that one should apply a diligent effort to problems, rather than expecting an easy answer and someone then jumps to the opposite extreme and asks why I suggest stopping an effort for which a very large effort has *already* been applied and which is probably infeasible at this point in time.[/QUOTE]I did not jump to the opposite extreme, that is your preception. I have no qualms with applying diligent effort. However, you made a point to lay into someone who wants to do something positive and to feel good about it. The EFF and Ansari X prizes exist to create a desire (a draw) [B]and[/B] to push the state of the art.

If someone wants to work on things that are fun (which are going to be done by the methodical folks anyway), why not accept their help? If you like to do diligent work on a project (like the folks that choose to do DC's for GIMPS), why complain that someone wants to do LMH work, so that they can find lotsa factors? Some folks will do the boring work, so that the project keeps rolling along (or completes for other projects.) If some one "cherry picks" the easy things (remember that this is not physical labor and many of the projects have automated assignments), why deminish their effort?
They are donating their resources (CPU's and $ for the electricity) to a project. Why carp about them choosing something that they like? that is fun? that appels to their sensablities? If you think that b-tching at them like that is proper, then there are several members of this forum that will gladly tear into you for not contributing your free home CPU cycles to curecancernow.com, finddrugsfor____.org, or calcuatehungerendingstradegies.int. Others might suggest that society not fund fundamental (becareful, the word has multiple definitions) math research until there are no more needy, sick, abused, etc. I think that there might be room enough for all, no?

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]It is one thing to be diligent. It is another to keep pursuing something after evidence suggests that success is rather improbable.[/QUOTE]Suggests as opposed to proves. Thanks, Mr. Establishment. Let me go tell Burt Rutan that one person flying around the world on a single tank might be improbable. Sometimes stick-to-it-iveness is called for. Imagine wasting a full month of time with a P90 peashooter, when someone else may have a tank at their disposal.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly]That's odd, I made no arguement. I mearly posted quotes taken in reasonable context. They seemed to be conflictory. Thanks, for the personal insult, want to trade IQ's? l[/QUOTE]

It is too bad that you take characterization of an argument as being
moronic as a personal insult. There is a big difference between "the
argument is moronic" and "you are a moron"

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]It is too bad that you take characterization of an argument as being moronic as a personal insult. There is a big difference between "the argument is moronic" and "you are a moron"[/QUOTE]

So, you wouldn't mind if I characterized your postings as stubborn, inconsistent, egoistic, outdated, counter-productive and increasingly annoying?

[QUOTE=Mystwalker]So, you wouldn't mind if I characterized your postings as stubborn, inconsistent, egoistic, outdated, counter-productive and increasingly annoying?[/QUOTE]


Not at all. An insult is like a drink. It affects one only if taken.
And I make allowances for the source.

I find the "instant gratification" generation increasingly annoying.
They only want, as another poster put it "to pick cherries".

You have your principles, I have mine. My principles seem to include
a stronger work ethic than most people here.

Too many here will not put in the effort needed to understand the
very subject in which they profess an interest. I think it is quite proper
to view and treat such people with disdain.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman]Too many here will not put in the effort needed to understand the very subject in which they profess an interest.[/QUOTE]Not all of us are PAID about 40 hours a week for studying this subject, like you are.
T.

[QUOTE=T.Rex]Not all of us are PAID about 40 hours a week for studying this subject, like you are.
T.[/QUOTE]

I am not paid to study string theory. But I am sure that I put more effort
into it than the people here put into factoring/prime testing.

[QUOTE=T.Rex]Not all of us are PAID about 40 hours a week for studying this subject, like you are.
T.[/QUOTE]

Once upon a time I had a full time job developing financial analysis
software. I became interested in computational number theory. I
read books. I *did the exercises* in those books. I *wrote my own
software*. I made a serious effort to learn the subject. My graduate
work was in O.R., not algebra and number theory.

Either do it well, or don't do it at all.

As Yoda says:

Do. Or Do Not. There is no try.