[QUOTE=petrw1;237515]No, I was just trying to find one that is NOT too expensive and has a good rating. I didn't realize it would be a tiny board. I'll look again for one that doesn't say Mini or Micro[/QUOTE]
From what I've observed, it's often hard to find a cheap full-ATX board; in many cases a Micro ATX will be fine, though Mini ITX will probably be rather restricting. The main difference is in the number of expansion slots. A typical ATX mobo will have 3 or 4 PCI slots, 1 PCIe x1, and 1 PCIe x16. Micro ATX usually has 2 or 3 PCI, 1 PCIe x1, and 1 PCIe x16. Mini ITX is, of course, even tinier, often with only one expansion slot (in the case of the one you posted earlier, PCIe x16).

The Micro ATX you had previously selected has a slightly nontraditional selection of expansion slots: 2 PCI and 2 PCIe x16 (though one of the PCIe's is slower than the other). This is actually a little better than the typical Micro ATX arrangement, since an x16 slot can be used with x1 cards if you so choose. If you're not planning to put too many expansion cards in, and aren't planning to have a huge GPU (the big ones like the GTX 460 take up the space of 2 slots; but the ones you're looking at should fit in 1 space), a Micro ATX may be a good buy if the price is right.

Tiny. Hard to cool it well in that tiny spot.
What's wrong with a GA-H55-USB3 (and 4 memory slots, better spacing around the CPU and other goodies)?

[QUOTE=petrw1;237515]Does the Video Card I have listed look like it is capable of similar thruput?[/QUOTE]That was my estimate for the GT240. I divided Oliver's GTX 275 performance by 2.77. Edit: But maybe it should have been 2.89. If you want an estimate of the 8400's performance, divide the GT240's by eighteen!

[QUOTE=Batalov;237519]Tiny. Hard to cool it well in that tiny spot.
What's wrong with a GA-H55-USB3 (and 4 memory slots, better spacing around the CPU and other goodies)?[/QUOTE]

Hmm nothing wrong with that one; just missed it; thanks

[QUOTE=Ken_g6;237528]That was my estimate for the GT240. I divided Oliver's GTX 275 performance by 2.77. Edit: But maybe it should have been 2.89. If you want an estimate of the 8400's performance, divide the GT240's by eighteen![/QUOTE]

I did update my order to have the GT240....whew can they get pricey above that.

For mfaktc speed which of these (all? other?) parms are the most important:
Core Clock: 625MHz
Shader Clock: 1360MHz
Stream Processors: 48

I see these two for example similar parms but one is twice the cost of the other.


[CODE]ZOTAC ZT-20203-10L GeForce GT 220 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
GeForce GT 220 1GB DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core Clock: 625MHz
Shader Clock: 1360MHz
Stream Processors: 48
Model #: ZT-20203-10L
Item #: N82E16814500130
Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy
Now: $55.99 [/CODE]

[CODE]ZOTAC AMP! ZT-20405-10L GeForce GT 240 512MB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
GeForce GT 240 512MB GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core Clock: 600MHz
Shader Clock: 1460MHz
Stream Processors: 96
Model #: ZT-20405-10L
Item #: N82E16814500146
Now: $93.99[/CODE]

You simply don't need a CPU cooler that expensive, there are many other high performance coolers for a much lower price. You can then either pocket the difference or spend it on making the machine even better.

There are many upgrade paths, more RAM, faster CPU, a better graphics card etc (hint: the last one). You don't need expensive cooling unless you plan on madly overclocking the CPU. I agree that an after market cooler would be a good idea, especially as you'll likely be running it under full load all the time, but you don't need to go that pricey.

This is a cooler very similar to the one you picked out, but $50 cheaper:
[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233082[/url]

Here is another, this time $62 cheaper:
[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064[/url]

Both of the above coolers can use two fans, the first 120mm, the second 92mm, however both coolers will be more than adequate even with the single fan they come with.

For the PSU, I'd get something with a little more headroom. This PSU can supply more juice, has an extra PCIe power connector, is slightly more efficient and costs only $8 more:
[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371035[/url]

Be aware that it doesn't come with a power lead though, (and that this is classified as a feature, lol).

The place to really stretch the budget is the graphics card. The GT240 cards are what are known as "weak sauce". I know that the GTX460 cards are a significant jump in cost, but you'll get a significant jump in performance too. A 460 has 3.5 times the number of cores at a slightly higher clock speed, that's four times the raw computer power (assuming the applications running on them scale linearly, which they more or less do I believe), it's just no contest between them.

Here is the cheapest GTX460 I can find on Newegg, it's $71 more, but you can get a lot of that back from getting a cheaper CPU cooler instead:
[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390[/url]

Edit: Note that this graphics card requires two 6 pin PCIe power connectors, and the PSU I linked to has two 6 pin PCIe power connectors. The PSU you listed earlier has only one such connector, something to bear in mind.

Hi petrw1,

[QUOTE=petrw1;237543]
For mfaktc speed which of these (all? other?) parms are the most important:
Core Clock: 625MHz
Shader Clock: 1360MHz
Stream Processors: 48
[/QUOTE]

For compute capability 1.x GPU on mfaktc you can just compare <shader clock> * <stream processors>, it scales very fine with those two paramters.
Memory clock / memory bandwidth doesn't matter at all. My GTX 470 needs ~2GB/sec on graphics memory while running mfaktc. :smile:

[B]IF[/B] your primary target for your GPU is mfaktc try to get a GPU with compute capability 2.x!
My GTX 470 (compute capability 2.0, 448 cores, 1215MHz) is up to 4 times faster than my GTX 275 (compute capability 1.3, 240 cores, 1458MHz). Currently compute capability 2.0 is best for mfaktc, 2.1 is a little bit slower but still much faster than 1.x.
To compare mfaktc performance on nvidia GPU compute
<shader clock> * <stream processors> * <correction factor>
correction factor for
- compute capability 1.x GPUs: 1.0
- compute capability 2.0 GPUs: 2.0...2.5
- compute capability 2.1 GPUs: 1.5...2.0
The correction factor is just a rough estimate, it dependes on the exponent and factor size...

So perhaps look for a GT 430:

relative performance estimate
GT 220: 1360 * 48 * 1.0 = ~65k
GT 430: 1400 * 96 * 1.5 = ~202k

A GT 430 should be ~3 times faster than a GT 220 in mfaktc.

Oliver

P.S.
keep in mind that
- mfaktc isn't very comfortable, you'll need to use the manual testings forms
- the GUI on your OS might become more or less unusable while running mfaktc (very laggy, especially on slower GPUs)
- you'll still need on core your CPU dedicated to mfaktc (two or three cores for GPU beasts like GTX 470/480/580...

P.P.S.
GPUs based on GF100 or GF110 chip: compute capability 2.0
GPUs based on GF10x except GF100: compute capability 2.1

Hey, thanks to each of you for the great feedback
 

I am a little overwhelmed or maybe just torn.

Getting a GPU that can factor like crazy is very tempting ...

but then getting a ton of factor progress/credit isn't the prime (pun intended) goal of mine. I enjoy dabbling in all work types for a variety of reasons; so losing at least one whole core in support of mfaktc along with spending an extra $100 to get a "worthy" GPU is a consideration....

I'll think on it for a day or two; cause I do want to get my order in this month.

Thanks again

... maybe not an EXTRA $100. This GT430 is under $100.
[B]ZOTAC ZT-40601-20L GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) Zone Edition 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card
GeForce GT 430 (Fermi) 1GB DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core Clock: 700MHz
Shader Clock: 1400MHz
Stream Processors: 96
Model #: ZT-40601-20L
Now: $84.99
$10.74 Shipping
[/B]

OTOH your 470 is in the $250 to $350 range

How to pay for your video card!
 

Hi petrw1,
Here is another suggestion for you to chew on!
Your Intel CPU, Intel Gigabyte MB, and after market CPU cooler costs $397.97.
If you substitute a retail boxed AMD Phenom II X6 CPU (includes heat sink/fan) and an AMD Gigabyte MB with MB video, you can save enough to pay for a really nice video card to run CUDALucas on. (Hint, hook your monitor up to the MB video and dedicate the CUDALucas video card to Prime95.)
Here are some Newegg prices for you as of 11/20/10:
Phenom X6 1090T 3.2 GHz with H/F $229.00 + free shipping
Phenom X6 1075T 3.0 GHz with H/F $199.99 + F/S
Phenom X6 1055T 2.8 GHz with H/F $179.00 + F/S
Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H micro ATX $89.99 + $2.99 shipping
Gigabyte GA-880GMA-UD2H micro ATX $99.99 + $2.99 shipping
Gigabyte GA-880GMA-UD3H ATX $109.99 + $2.99 shipping.

I should also mention that you may want to wait until January 5th [when Intel formally announces their next CPU family (code named Sandy Bridge)] to make your final decision as this new CPU family is expected to significantly outperform Intel's current i5 and i7 CPU family.

I was tempted by the GTX 460.

GTX 430 will cost a half of GTX 460: are the specs halved as well?

Luigi

[QUOTE=RMAC9.5;237924](Hint, hook your monitor up to the MB video and dedicate the CUDALucas video card to Prime95.)[/QUOTE]
FYI: this can sometimes require tweaking a BIOS setting to make it work. Some BIOSes will only turn on the grahpics card if there's a monitor plugged into it (and likewise, only turn on the integrated video if there's a monitor plugged into it). To run both, you will probably need to go into the BIOS. (Not too bad if you're familiar with this stuff, but figured you should know anyway...)

I've had the opportunity to try CUDALucas on a friend's GTX 460 via remote access and I was rather surprised to see that it didn't slow down the GUI at all. We were similarly shocked that ppsieve and tpsieve didn't slow it down either. I have not tried mfaktc, so it may behave differently. (I've heard reports of ppsieve/tpsieve slowing others' GUIs to a crawl, so it's possible that this behavior is unique to the GTX 460, and that it's really just a fast enough GPU to handle both at the same time.)

[QUOTE=ET_;237926]GTX 430 will cost a half of GTX 460: are the specs halved as well?[/QUOTE]

GT 240 - 96 cores, 550 MHz, 78 CAD
GT 430 - 96 cores, 700 MHz, 70 CAD, Paradoxical ain't it.
GTX 460 - 336 cores, 700 MHz, 134 CAD, I linked to a more expensive [url=http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121390]ASUS[/url] card (165 CAD) before 'cause honestly I've never heard of [url=http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162058]Galaxy[/url] and the default is not to trust them.

GTX 460 has 3.5 times the number of cores of a GT 430. Clock speeds will vary a bit between manufacturer as they try to distinguish themselves from the competition, but these are typical examples. Also included are the minimum prices I found on newegg.ca.

For nVidia nomenclature:
GTX > GTS >>> GT

But of course it gets tricky when you want to compare between different generations of card. Luckily you can readily find information about the number of cores or "stream processors", and the core clock speed, which gives a much more apples to apples comparison.

[QUOTE=RMAC9.5;237924]Sandy Bridge ... as this new CPU family is expected to significantly outperform Intel's current i5 and i7 CPU family.[/QUOTE]

It will only outperform once new FFT software is written. This will take several months.

[QUOTE]Prime95 cautions,
It will only outperform once new FFT software is written. This will take several months.[/QUOTE]
Knowledgeable people like Dresdenboy at [URL="http://www.citavia.blog.de"]http://citavia.blog.de[/URL] and David Kanter at [URL="http://www.realworldtech.com"]http://www.realworldtech.com[/URL] have been [U]speculating[/U] for months that both AMD's (Bulldozer) and Intel's (Sandy Bridge) new CPU designs will have significantly better DP FP performance than their current designs. This is even before George performs his FFT magic on them.

Just a reminder that today is Black Friday. Also, don't forget about Black Monday. :smile:

You be the judge
 

HP Compaq DC7600 Desktop PC With Dual Core 3.0GHz Processor $200
2GB DDR2, 1-Terabyte Hard Drive, and Windows XP Professional
(Factory Refurbished)
4MB Cache
DVD/CD-RW Combo
Integrated Graphics
Integrated Sound Card
Gigabit Ethernet
10/100/1000Mbps LAN Speed
Open Office 3.2
Includes Optical Mouse and Keyboard

limited time [url]http://www.1saleaday.com/[/url]

Maybe a media server/space heater to keep the chill out of your basement.

This is a sort of 'bargain hardware':

KNUTH
[URL]http://www.informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=138111[/URL]
The Art of Computer Programming Volume 4A and Updated Box Set

Art of Computer Programming, Volume 4A, The: Combinatorial Algorithms, Part 1 $48.74

Art of Computer Programming, Volumes 1-4A Boxed Set, The, 3rd Edition $162.49

If you want cheap Knuth books, you may want to check this out:
[url]http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=knuth&sts=t&tn=programming&x=0&y=0[/url]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;246474]This is a sort of 'bargain hardware':

KNUTH
[URL]http://www.informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=138111[/URL]
The Art of Computer Programming Volume 4A and Updated Box Set
[/QUOTE]Thank you!

[U](BTW, the discount offer ends Feb. 15 !)[/U]

My copy of 4A arrived yesterday! I've gotten to page 9!

Of the xiv+883 pages, 513 are Chapter 7 (Combinatorial Searching) through 7.2.1.7, 304 are answers to exercises, 16 are appendices and 50 are index and glossary.

From the preface:

[quote=Knuth]Volumes 4B and 4C will exist someday ... there may also be Volumes 4D, 4E, ...; but surely not 4Z.[/quote]

[QUOTE=lavalamp;246489]If you want cheap Knuth books, you may want to check this out:
[URL]http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=knuth&sts=t&tn=programming&x=0&y=0[/URL][/QUOTE]Be careful about listings such as

"[URL="http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1326983246&searchurl=an%3Dknuth%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dprogramming%26x%3D0%26y%3D0"]The Art of Computer Programming[/URL][B][URL="http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1326983246&searchurl=an%3Dknuth%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dprogramming%26x%3D0%26y%3D0"] Vol. 4.3[/URL]"

This is not the complete volume 4A [/B](or 4C)[B]. It is only fascicle 3 of volume 4[/B].

My understanding is that Knuth will continue to have fascicles published, and the first fascicle of volume 4B will be fascicle 5.

MSI N460GTX Twin Frozr II SOC GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

$124.99

[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127519&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&AID=10440897&PID=3668349&SID=[/url]

Chipset Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Core Clock: 750MHz
Stream Processors: 336 Processor Cores
Effective Memory Clock: 3600MHz
DirectX: DirectX 11
OpenGL: OpenGL 4.0
HDMI: 1 x Mini HDMI 1.3a
DVI: 2 x DVI

It seems that Woot's "Deal of the Day" (woot.com) today is the same computer I have:
Asus Essentio CG1330-07
AMD Phenom II X6 2.7GHz (1045T)
8GB DDR3 (4*2GB, upgradeable to 16GB as 4*4GB)
1TB SATA3
1GB ATI 5450 (unfortunately not useful for GIMPS)
It comes with Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, but I use Ubuntu 10.10 on mine.

I'm pretty sure Woot only ships within the US. The way Woot works, the deal ends either when they sell out or when midnight CDT (GMT-5) rolls around.

As a side note, I just upgraded mine to 16GB. This machine is a serious P-1 beast.

Edit: I should point out that the PSU is 400W, and probably requires replacement (upgrade) if someone is planning on putting a better GPU in there. I'm thinking about doing that myself, at some point.

[QUOTE=markr;216293]I hope they gave credit to [URL="http://www.xkcd.com/730/"]xkcd.com[/URL].[/QUOTE]

Thanks to both of you for the diagram and the link. This is the best laugh I've had in some time. Couldn't stop, in fact.

Edit: XKCD.COM is hilarious.

Somewhat dumb question: Those Tablet machines HP just abandoned...are they sufficiently power-efficient to be good prime crunchers?

What's the value of a dual-CPU, rack-mount Xeon server?

Wondering if any of this is a good deal or not...remembering what dual-CPU mobos run...

[url]http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/sys/2684887954.html[/url]

Are you kidding? Building those new would cost north of $1000, I'd think...

From a compute capability point of view, not worth it at all. Those systems are 7 years old (late P4 era, pre Core 2 Duo), and for the price of those servers you could build several modern systems, any one of which could outperform all those servers put together.

Thanks...yoiu don't get what you don't pay for....there's a reason for the price, and now I know it.

Still potentially of interest to someone who wants a cheap server to play around with.

A bargain GTX 550 Ti
 

[URL]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127577[/URL]

With Promo Code EMCNJGJ27
$89.99 After $30.00 MIR

But of course a month later (when Kepler comes out), this price may be easily beaten.

Building a cluster out of these things would be dirt cheap: [url]http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs[/url]

Each node isn't that powerful by modern standards but you sure can get a lot of them for your money.


Paul

(39) Apple iBook G4 laptop computers
1.33 GHz processor
512 MB RAM
40 GB hard drive
Bretford laptop cart, next bid is $750, everything is wiped. Does this compete with modern CPUs on output/dollar scale?

No. This laptop I'm posting from has a dual core Sandy Bridge 2.3GHz proc, (not to mention 4GiB RAM and 320GB HDD) and I got it new for $400.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;288294]No. This laptop I'm posting from has a dual core Sandy Bridge 2.3GHz proc, (not to mention 4GiB RAM and 320GB HDD) and I got it new for $400.[/QUOTE]
Even though they are less than $20 apiece?

[QUOTE=c10ck3r;288299]Even though they are less than $20 apiece?[/QUOTE]

How does $20 apiece relate to the $750 bid in your original post? G4's are pretty long in the tooth, too, being the second last (I think) pre-Intel Mac CPU family. I would guess that such machines might be OK for DC work. However, if they are wiped (no OS?), what would you run them on? Is there a Linux for G-series Macs?

There's Linux for everything, man. G series would be PowerPC, wouldn't it? Those are still fairly well supported by Linux/BSD.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;288303]There's Linux for everything, man. G series would be PowerPC, wouldn't it? Those are still fairly well supported by Linux/BSD.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. That's Power PC, and a fairly late model in the line with that clock speed. It likely came out mid-2005.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBook#iBook_G4[/url]

[QUOTE=kladner;288300]How does $20 apiece relate to the $750 bid in your original post?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=c10ck3r;288281](39) Apple iBook G4 laptop computers[/QUOTE]

$750 / 39 = $19,24 per laptop.

[QUOTE=kladner;288309] It likely came out mid-2005.[/QUOTE]

That fits the definition of a useless antique.

[QUOTE=Prime95;288323]That fits the definition of a useless antique.[/QUOTE]Are you casting nasturtiums at my compute farm?

I'll have you know that many pre-2000 machines around the world are still doing useful computation. They are just not producing so many computrons per watt as this year's models.

Paul

[QUOTE=Ralf Recker;288322]$750 / 39 = $19,24 per laptop.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I missed that. The power and administration costs would be higher per GHz Day (quite a lot higher) but in terms of up front cost vs. throughput, that's not a bad deal. If you're willing to deal with installing linux on 39 laptops and the massive quantities of power they'll draw, then go for it.

(To put the power in perspective, the Sandy Bridge procs I have are built on transistors that are a quarter as small as the G4s you mention. Power draw will be roughly that much higher.)

Based on this link:
[url]http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24638?viewlocale=en_US[/url]

The laptops will use a combined power of around 2 kW, including losses in the transformers etc. 2 kW isn't so bad, especially if you were to distribute them in a few locations for more even heating of your home.

As far as performance goes, in the absence of any mprime benchmarks for them, a (very) rough estimate could be attained by looking at the maximum theoretical GFLOPS that a G4 chip can do.

They can execute 2 instructions per clock (I believe) and they run at 1.33 GHz, for a max theoretical throughput of 2.67 GFLOPS. With 39 of these machines, you get a max throughput of 104 GFLOPS.

Note, that if I am wrong about the 2 instructions per clock, and it is for example, 4 instructions per clock, the peak performance doubles to 208 GFLOPS.

Compare this to a quad core 2600 Sandy Bridge CPU which can execute 4 instructions / clock and runs at 3.4 GHz by default (but can easily be overclocked to much more) and has 4 cores, this gives it a peak performance of 54.4 GFLOPS. With extreme overclocking (5GHz), this rises to 80 GFLOPS.

Even accounting for the laptops being 32 bit while a Sandy Bridge CPU is 64 bit, I do think that the swarm of laptops will outperform a single Sandy Bridge CPU, however if you were to build a couple of budget Sandy Bridge systems, I think you could get more performance for around the same price, while using a lot less power, and it would require a lot less effort on your part.

My 2600 runs at around 4GHz and typically hits 70-80 GFLOPS on IBT runs. For 750, you could get a SB quad core, maybe a GTX 460 or 550, for maybe less than 750, and I get around 125+ GHz Days per day, and less power to boot.

[QUOTE=Ralf Recker;288322]$750 / 39 = $19,24 per laptop.[/QUOTE]

OK. I missed the quantity. But the subsequent discussion makes the deal kind of questionable, especially in power terms, and in management effort.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;288331]My 2600 runs at around 4GHz and typically hits 70-80 GFLOPS on IBT runs. For 750, you could get a SB quad core, maybe a GTX 460 or 550, for maybe less than 750, and I get around 125+ GHz Days per day, and less power to boot.[/QUOTE]

I actually built my 2500K for under $750, $521 on the MB, CPU and Mem, $39 on the case, $70 on the PSU, $50 on the HDD and $21 on the DVD. (would have reused what I had, but the new MB had no IDE capability)

Well yes, but I included a GPU in that price/suggestion. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it's doable. (The $521 for proc/mb/mem seems a bit high, though. What mem did you get?)

[QUOTE=xilman;288324]Are you casting nasturtiums at my compute farm?

I'll have you know that many pre-2000 machines around the world are still doing useful computation. They are just not producing so many computrons per watt as this year's models.[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected. Amend my statement to "[I]nearly[/I] useless".

P.S. I too am guilty of running machines past there useful lifespan. I didn't retire my Pentium II machine until last year. I got it in the late 1990s. It still ran and was successfully searching for multi-perfect numbers. I could no longer justify the electricity usage.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;288390]Well yes, but I included a GPU in that price/suggestion. It's a bit of a stretch, but I think it's doable. (The $521 for proc/mb/mem seems a bit high, though. What mem did you get?)[/QUOTE]

Corsair Vengence DDR3 1600 8GB (2x4GB sticks). It was a package deal through best buy, with an ASUS P8P67 Deluxe MB.

[QUOTE=Prime95;288394]I stand corrected. Amend my statement to "[I]nearly[/I] useless".

P.S. I too am guilty of running machines past there useful lifespan. I didn't retire my Pentium II machine until last year. I got it in the late 1990s. It still ran and was successfully searching for multi-perfect numbers. I could no longer justify the electricity usage.[/QUOTE]

Not nearly as bad as the folks from Bletchley Park:
[url]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/10/bletchley_park_colossus/[/url]
:smile:

Not sure if this is really a bargain at $175, but it does come with 4GB ECC.

[url]http://www.surpluscomputers.com/351149/pinnacle-dual-opteron-k8s-4x1gb.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Prime95;288323]That fits the definition of a useless antique.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=xilman;288324]Are you casting nasturtiums at my compute farm?

I'll have you know that many pre-2000 machines around the world are still doing useful computation. They are just not producing so many computrons per watt as this year's models.

Paul[/QUOTE]

My ears are burning.

David

Somewhat of a bargain for a dual-fan card, I think:
$250*(+0 tax for some users + free S/H) for a [URL="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057608W2/"]EVGA GTX 570[/URL]

I have a identically made 560/448 core (limited ed.) and was looking for a 2-fan card like this for another comp... now thinking...

Funny, I see [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130620"]this[/URL] which is pretty similar; but when I look at 560 Ti's on Newegg, they're the same price as the 570s. That doesn't seem right? Edit: Those were the 448 core 560Tis I was looking at. Does anybody have some "real life" comparisons of the two?

The mass production cards (even by EVGA) are 1-fan design, which is flimsy to me and less protected against failure and there's less tuning potential. (FTW and other acronyms are just sugarcoating.) I did indeed start from this Newegg sale item (you can use Promo Code EMCNDNE35 to shave off yet another $10 => $240*); but Newegg is local for me, so that's another $25 in tax**. So went to nextag and other indexers.

Hint: when Newegg throws something on special, there usually exists a competitor who they are matching by doing that. The trick is to find them.

**In a few months, Amazon will start taking tax at source in CA, too.
[SPOILER]Yes, I know, we should all pay sales tax. If totally necessary, I'd rather do it a year later together with tax return.[/SPOILER]

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar at all with other retailers. My introduction was from friends who all basically used Newegg.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;301383]Funny, I see [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130620"]this[/URL] which is pretty similar; but when I look at 560 Ti's on Newegg, they're the same price as the 570s. That doesn't seem right? Edit: Those were the 448 core 560Tis I was looking at. Does anybody have some "real life" comparisons of the two?[/QUOTE]

Isn't there the 2.1 versus 2.0 difference between (respectively) GTX x60 and GTX x70 cards?

448 core 560Ti's are 2.0, [U]but not[/U] plain 560Ti.
That's the evil plan of NVidia - confuse the hell out of buyers.

[URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0069RZ01C/"]448 core 560Ti[/URL] (I have this one; only overpriced leftovers are seen in the wild) is a [URL="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057608W2/"]570Ti[/URL] times 14/15ths and all the same memory (5/4 Gib). The packaging (PCB, cooler, fan are interchangeable), so I picked these two links that demonstrate that. I like the 2-fan thing and this particular cooler design. [URL="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0056GJLA8/"]Gigabyte's 3-fan thing[/URL] might be even more effective (and "silenter") - or any decent chipset + total replacement of the cooler+fan assembly with an Arctic contraption (summarily equivalent to Gigabyte's 3-fan models. Unsure, myself. I'll probably skip and wait for a larger sale.

That is good to know. Thanks, Batalov.

EDIT: So far, my Gigabyte GTX 460 (2 fan) is doing great. The sound level does not rise above the case/CPU fans, and it runs (most of the time) under 70C OC'd to 850 MHz. This gives me some positive feeling about Gigabyte's video cards. Three fan configurations would be even better, in my estimation -- quieter, as you say.

[QUOTE=kladner;301396]That is good to know. Thanks, Batalov.

EDIT: So far, my Gigabyte GTX 460 (2 fan) is doing great. The sound level does not rise above the case/CPU fans, and it runs (most of the time) under 70C OC'd to 850 MHz. This gives me some positive feeling about Gigabyte's video cards. Three fan configurations would be even better, in my estimation -- quieter, as you say.[/QUOTE]

Ditto on all counts, except mine's an MSI two fan at 751 MHz.

Today only. Requires $20 MIR.

I'm not sure if this is a bargain or not, as I don't track Radeon cards very much.

[URL]http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=ShellShocker-_-14-125-353-_-06202012_2[/URL]

$119.99

[B]Learn more about the GIGABYTE GV-R685OC-1GD[/B]

[B]Model[/B]
[CODE]
BrandGIGABYTESeriesUltra Durable VGA SeriesModelGV-R685OC-1GDInterface

InterfacePCI Express 2.1 x16Chipset

Chipset ManufacturerAMD GPURadeon HD 6850Core Clock820MHz (Std. 775MHz)Stream Processors960 Stream ProcessorsMemory

Effective Memory Clock1050MHz (4.2Gbps) (Std. 1000MHz, 4.0Gbps)Memory Size1GBMemory Interface256-bitMemory TypeGDDR53D API

DirectXDirectX 11OpenGLOpenGL 4.1Ports

HDMI1 x HDMIDisplayPort1 x DisplayPortDVI2 x DVIGeneral

RAMDAC400 MHzMax Resolution2560 x 1600RoHS CompliantYesEyefinity SupportYesCrossFireX SupportYesCoolerWith FanDual-Link DVI SupportedYesHDCP ReadyYesCard Dimensions9.06" x 4.96" x 1.50"Features

FeaturesATI Eyefinity

ATI Avivo HD (DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-ray Playback)

AMD HD3D Technology

ATI Catalyst Control Center

ATI PowerPlay

AMD Advanced Parallel Processing technologyManufacturer Warranty

Parts3 years limitedLabor3 years limited[/CODE]

2nm Core i5 plus PCIe 3.0 GT 640 ::> P(est)~77W(TDP) + 75W(Pmax)
 

Its high-time for a new build. I purchased these parts recently:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[SIZE=2]* [/SIZE][SIZE=2]MSI Z77A-G45 [/SIZE][Intel Z77 • 4x DDR3 • 2x PCIe 3.0 x16] ~ 130 $
* Intel Core i5-3570K, 4x 3.40GHz ["Ivy Bridge" • TDP: 77W • 22nm] ~ 250 $
* Gigabyte GeForce GT 640 [Shader: 1050MHz • Chip: GK107 • Stream-Processors: 384 • 28nm • P Max: 75W] ~ 115 $
* G.Skill Ares (1600MHz, CL10, 2x 8GB) [ Intel Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) 1.5V!!] ~ 115 $
==== costs ~~ 510 $(US) / ~ 415 €
power consumption P ~ >= 150 W - <= 200 W

This is reasonable in my oppinion.

V27.7??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The what s new file of the 27.7 version stated something about memory bottlenecks with 4 workers on 4 Ivy-bridge Cores (sounds Intel-familiar? did we catch up to the edge?) Occasionally or regularly (aka slow-down with 4workers-4cores?)?

Reasonable worker/helperthread distribution/assignment for 2nn core-i5??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What would be reasonable/best to run on my new core-i5 and 8gigs Ram??

GT 640 & cudalucas?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since it is some time I last looked up here (got me 2 month to even notice the new 27.7 version, sdly) :
Where to start getting things read before getting my GT640 started TF?? (O.k. will do the RTFM & Forums-Faq, but a quick starting point to read in the right posts will help a lot - thanx my friends!)

gt640 with gk107 works with CL, but with [URL="http://mersenne-aries.sili.net/cudalucas.php?model=12"]somehow low performance[/URL] (scroll down there). If you are not a gamer, i.e. you don't buy it for mainly for games, then you can get better for the money.

Thank u LaurV 4 that cruical information! Will read through it. :)

Notua Cooler...Opinions???
 

Any experience or opinions on this cooler:

[url]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024[/url]

[QUOTE=petrw1;321151]Any experience or opinions on this cooler:

[URL]http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608024[/URL][/QUOTE]
[B][URL="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/LGA-2011-i7-3960X-Air-Overclocking,3130.html"][SIZE=2] Big Air: 14 LGA 2011-Compatible Coolers For Core i7-3000, Reviewed [/SIZE][/URL][/B]

[SIZE=2]@[SIZE=2]Tom's Hardware[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[QUOTE=kracker;321153][B][URL="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/LGA-2011-i7-3960X-Air-Overclocking,3130.html"][SIZE=2] Big Air: 14 LGA 2011-Compatible Coolers For Core i7-3000, Reviewed [/SIZE][/URL][/B]

[SIZE=2]@[SIZE=2]Tom's Hardware[/SIZE][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

:goodposting:

For lack of not knowing where to post... Newegg has some nice deals.
[URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121707"]Asus GTX670-DC2OG-2GD5 GeForce GTX 670[/URL] $199.99
[URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121649"]ASUS HD7870-DC2-2GD5-V2 Radeon HD 7870 GHz[/URL] $139.99

Never thought I'd see a 7870 at [I]$140[/I], a 7770 was $150 at launch.

I'm going to have so damn many computers before I'm even thirty... You're giving me ideas...

[QUOTE=TheMawn;360575]I'm going to have so damn many computers before I'm even thirty... You're giving me ideas...[/QUOTE]

A 7870 is faster at TF than a 670... and it's $60 cheaper :razz:

Hurry up, it's Black Friday! :smile:

Luigi

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

I couldnt find Nvidia Titan in any of the black friday offers in Norway

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[QUOTE=Manpowre;360611][COLOR=White]:[/COLOR](:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:[COLOR=White]([/COLOR]

I couldnt find Nvidia Titan in any of the black friday offers in Norway

[COLOR=White]:[/COLOR](:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:[COLOR=White]([/COLOR][/QUOTE]

And why are you laughing about? :razz:

Lol @ LaurV


@Kracker my GTX 660 Ti is comparable to my GTX 670 (~300 GHz-Days) and while I'm a bit sad I paid as much for it then as I would for a GTX 670 today, I'm still happy I bought it then (given it has like four months under its belt by now).

When I start breeding computers I'll probably build them without a GPU at first and just wait for good deals. eBay Canada has a huge number of GTX 580 at less than $100. I'd buy if I had room.

I just got two gtx 590 via ebay for <200 € each. Power consumption is going to be scary...

Saving creating a new thread....dead Power Supply??
 

At this risk of sounding like I have an ID-10-T error but because I have never had a Power supply die before....

If my PC has NO sign of life at all not even a blinking LED it is safe to say it is time for a new Power Supply OR is there anything else I need to verify first?
I don't imagine it could simply be the power cord? It is plugged into the same power bar as another PC that is working.

Assuming I need a new PS I have a bigger plan. I would like to get one big enough to power the PC and an Upper End GPU.

I have an i5-750 with a GIGABYTE P55M-UD2 MotherBoard and 4GB RAM OC'd to 3.2 with GB Smart -6 software.

1. Please advise if there are any red flags with adding a GPU to this PC.
2. Are there some that will work and some that won't?
3. Otherwise can I simply check the GPU forum to see what is the "IN" GPU to get?

Thanks

PSU is likely suspect. I'd disconnect it from the various components (GPU, HDD, MB, etc) and do a quick check using the paper clip test from [URL="http://www.corsair.com/en-us/support/faqs/power-supplies"]here.[/URL] If the PSU won't power up using that method, it is probably the culprit.

[QUOTE=petrw1;386601]At this risk of sounding like I have an ID-10-T error but because I have never had a Power supply die before....

If my PC has NO sign of life at all not even a blinking LED it is safe to say it is time for a new Power Supply OR is there anything else I need to verify first?
I don't imagine it could simply be the power cord? It is plugged into the same power bar as another PC that is working.
Thanks[/QUOTE]
You could detach all the devices/motherbord (leave only a fan attached) and try to jumpstart the PSU with a paperclip. If the fan spins up, you know there is still some life in the PSU. If it fails you know for sure the PSU is dead. Google for "jumpstart psu", the first hit (seasonicusa has a nice guide for it).

edit:
sdbardwick beat me to it.

Most likely power supply. If it works after being off a while, make sure it's not full of dust and overheating.

[QUOTE=ET_;360609]Hurry up, it's Black Friday! :smile:

Luigi[/QUOTE]

Looks like Black-Friday / Super-Saturday / Shop-til-you-drop-Sunday / Cyber-Monday started [url=http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2014/11/christmas-shopping-season-starts-today.html]on Halloween this year[/url]. May I suggest July 4th next year, Easter in 2016, Valentine's Day in 2017, then in 2018 we'll be shopping a full year ahead for Xmas, and at least the season will feel right, even if the year is off by 1.

[QUOTE=petrw1;386601]I have an i5-750 with a GIGABYTE P55M-UD2 MotherBoard

3. Otherwise can I simply check the GPU forum to see what is the "IN" GPU to get?
[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking a GTX 770 is going to be a killer deal right about now. Your system will not provide the PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth but the card will be fine anyway.

EDIT: I should explain the GTX 770 a bit more: way back I did some research. I was thinking of adding three or four of these to the computer I'm slowly working on (when the time comes to add real GPU's) and exchanging TF credits for LL credits. The LL and TF performances, combined with the relatively low cost and power made it seem like the cheapest way to farm TF credits to exchange for LL.

[QUOTE=TheMawn;386742]I'm thinking a GTX 770 is going to be a killer deal right about now. Your system will not provide the PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth but the card will be fine anyway.

EDIT: I should explain the GTX 770 a bit more: way back I did some research. I was thinking of adding three or four of these to the computer I'm slowly working on (when the time comes to add real GPU's) and exchanging TF credits for LL credits. The LL and TF performances, combined with the relatively low cost and power made it seem like the cheapest way to farm TF credits to exchange for LL.[/QUOTE]
Assuming you like nVidia of course... that would be best.
[URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600473876&IsNodeId=1&name=Radeon%20R9%20280X"]280X[/URL]
[URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600451260&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30"]GTX770[/URL]

The 770 is a bit more expensive though.
Benchmarks according to mersenne.ca:
GTX770=286.9 GHz/days
280X=374.4 GHz/days

Also, the [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709%20600473877&IsNodeId=1"]R9 290[/URL] which makes 521.4 GHz/days...

Or are you looking at prices at eBay etc?

[QUOTE=kracker;386744]The 770 is a bit more expensive though.
Benchmarks according to mersenne.ca:
GTX770=286.9 GHz/days[/QUOTE]

If you're concerned solely about TF throughput, my factory-overclocked GTX760 gives 270 GHz-d/d for a much cheaper price. Still nowhere near as good of deal as a used GTX 580 which can be had for about $125 used. But if you have to pay for power, I think the GTX 970 is the real sweet spot right now.

It was off for over a day before I noticed....definitely more than enough time to cool.

How about my second question?
Any problem adding a GOOD GPU to that setup ...obviously I need a bigger power supply.

[QUOTE=petrw1;386751]It was off for over a day before I noticed....definitely more than enough time to cool.

How about my second question?
Any problem adding a GOOD GPU to that setup ...obviously I need a bigger power supply.[/QUOTE]

I don't see any problem. The first PCIe x16 slot is PCIe 2.0, so even gaming shouldn't be too bad.

The system is getting a bit long in the tooth though.

So what I hear is that this PC won't be able to get full thruput from one of these cards?

No gaming....only gimps.

I Could be Wrong[SUP]TM[/SUP], but I don't think PCIe 2.0 x16 is going to choke a single GPU significantly, unless there is competition for bandwidth.

[QUOTE=petrw1;386776]So what I hear is that this PC won't be able to get full thruput from one of these cards?

No gaming....only gimps.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry about it. You're fine, PCI bandwidth doesn't matter too much for mfakt(c-o)

[QUOTE=petrw1;386776]So what I hear is that this PC won't be able to get full thruput from one of these cards?

No gaming....only gimps.[/QUOTE]

It'll be fine for gimps, and even gaming should be good, if you should choose to try gaming. A recent high end GPU could be hampered a bit in gaming, but for gimps you have no concern at all :)

gtx970 vs 590
 

If I look at the benchmarks page the price is about the same but 40% more thruput with the 590. Is it a power hog?

Yes, I would expect a single 590 card to use 350W or so, whilst the 970 is 150W

The 590 also requires a big case to handle its length, a more expensive power supply, especially if running more than one card, more case fans to vacate the 350 watts of heat, etc.

ok GTX 970 it is...
 

NewEgg Canada has them for $370 + $12 shipping.

Adding about 590: you can easily stress a well cooled (or water cooled) 590 card to ~500 Watts, or even 600 Watts. The "350W" is a "low clock" (factory) setting. Technically, one 590 is two 580 in parallel, with a reduced clock to keep the heat and consumption down. But its [B]biggest problem[/B] is the fact that half of the the hot air (if air cooled) goes back into the case (the card exhausts in both directions, at both ends). So, it has to be either water/liquid cooled, or you will need a special case (beside of the length, mentioned before, an additional fan is needed in the side of the case to take that hot air out, as it is exhausted by the card(s) inside of the case).

I don't know (yet) and I can't comment about newer 9xx cards, never played with one.

But if you want to go "old style", buying two 580's (for about the same price, a bit higher) may be better than one 590. You get higher performance (about 30% more, see the Asus Mars II cards, they have very instructive "performance charts", which can be used for comparison, Mars II is just two 580s in parallel, and they compare it directly with 590 on their web page), plus easier cooling, and you still can run your system if one card crashes. The only problem is that two 580s will take 4 (or 6) pcie slots, but a 590 only 2 (or 3, depending on brand and cooling solution).

Xeon Phi for a reasonable price
 

[url]https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/special-promotion-intel-xeon-phi-coprocessor-31s1p[/url]

Intel is selling off 270W 57-core 8GB Knights Crossing boards at the extremely attractive price of $195, presumably because they want to clear stock before Knights Landing turns up.

[url]http://www.colfax-intl.com/nd/xeonphi/31s1p-promo.aspx[/url] is probably the obvious supplier to use in America. But their international shipping is unfortunately pretty hopeless ('organise your own pick-up' rather than just offering to put it in USPS); there is a single European reseller, who is in Italy and doesn't appear to have the boards available.

Could I convince an American on the forum to buy me one and send it USPS? I will transfer the money by paypal and send address details.

I don't know whether there are seven people on the forum who might want one, but Colfax offers a ten-pack for $1290 so if there are more than six people it would be worth putting in a bulk order.

The boards are two slots wide, and have huge heat sinks but no fan, so you would have to contrive some source of forced air.

Hm... over 1k gig of DP power... tempting. I may be in for one, this price look very cheap to me.

How many GHzD/D of DC can produce? I understand that we deal with 57 cores of ~x86, but they are kinda stupid cores, not like sandy bridge or haswel..

Noob question: Can I pair the cores somehow, or do I have to run 57 copies of the LL test? (any LL test, I assume that P95 will not run, but I will contribute to buy one for George if he promise to make it running, hehe)

Any special [existing] software for it? (I think ewmayer was working on something, if I am not mistaken).

[QUOTE=fivemack;387008][url]https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/special-promotion-intel-xeon-phi-coprocessor-31s1p[/url]

Intel is selling off 270W 57-core 8GB Knights Crossing boards at the extremely attractive price of $195, presumably because they want to clear stock before Knights Landing turns up.

[url]http://www.colfax-intl.com/nd/xeonphi/31s1p-promo.aspx[/url] is probably the obvious supplier to use in America. But their international shipping is unfortunately pretty hopeless ('organise your own pick-up' rather than just offering to put it in USPS); there is a single European reseller, who is in Italy and doesn't appear to have the boards available.

Could I convince an American on the forum to buy me one and send it USPS? I will transfer the money by paypal and send address details.

I don't know whether there are seven people on the forum who might want one, but Colfax offers a ten-pack for $1290 so if there are more than six people it would be worth putting in a bulk order.

The boards are two slots wide, and have huge heat sinks but no fan, so you would have to contrive some source of forced air.[/QUOTE]
It must be some sort of special developer board, since it doesn't show up on Intel ARK: [url]http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/57721/Knights-Corner[/url]

Is there any (factoring) software that can can utilise this beast?

[QUOTE=fivemack;387008]I don't know whether there are seven people on the forum who might want one, but Colfax offers a ten-pack for $1290 so if there are more than six people it would be worth putting in a bulk order.

The boards are two slots wide, and have huge heat sinks but no fan, so you would have to contrive some source of forced air.[/QUOTE]I may well be interested at that price. I need to rebuild one of my systems anyway so starting afresh has some attraction.

I'll investigate further and maybe chat with you off-line.


Paul