Unusual mental developments (Asperger's syndrome)
 

I thought about this and decided to post to open up a question that may be taboo to many.

I have noticed that many of the people who frequent this message board exhibit behaviors that resemble Aspberger's syndrome. It is characterized by social ineptness, tendency to focus exclusively on a fixed subject, inability to interact effectively with other people, failed relationships, lack of close friends, and a tendency toward outstanding achievement in some specific field such as mathematics. In some ways, it could be referred to as the genius syndrome. It is felt that Albert Einstein may have had AS.

[url]http://maapservices.org/MAAP_Sub_Find_It_-_Publications_Ehlers_and_Gillberg_Article.htm[/url]

For the record, I have a son who has been diagnosed with AS. He is very intelligent but totally lacking in social graces. I exhibit some of the above traits but in a very mild form.

I'm curious, how many people on this board feel they or someone they know has AS.

Fusion :unsure:

Some people have sometimes accused me of having AS, but I really don't think I have any such disorder.

I have read accounts of people who were said to have AS. They range from people who genuinely have a problem that is disrupting their life to people who simply have a passion for a certain subject and don't particularly enjoy going to parties.

I would warn against being too ready to diagnose introverts as disabled. As one commentator remarked: "The person in the office next to me can't solve simple quadratic equations, but I don't say that he has a disability in mathematics." In my own experience, I have seen many people whose attitudes towards introverts and extroverts are, to put it lightly, hardly symmetrical.

Having said that, some people do behave in ways that unnecessarily antagonize others. Such people could be said to have a syndrome, in which case the most severe symptoms are what lay people would simply call "inconsiderateness", or perhaps more extreme versions of it. However, I should probably also say that that does not cover all the aspects of AS. I once read about a child who was so resistant to changes in routine that he had difficulty starting school after summer holidays.

[QUOTE=Fusion_power]I thought about this and decided to post to open up a question that may be taboo to many.

I have noticed that many of the people who frequent this message board exhibit behaviors that resemble Aspberger's syndrome. It is characterized by social ineptness, tendency to focus exclusively on a fixed subject, inability to interact effectively with other people, failed relationships, lack of close friends, and a tendency toward outstanding achievement in some specific field such as mathematics. In some ways, it could be referred to as the genius syndrome. It is felt that Albert Einstein may have had AS.

[url]http://maapservices.org/MAAP_Sub_Find_It_-_Publications_Ehlers_and_Gillberg_Article.htm[/url]

For the record, I have a son who has been diagnosed with AS. He is very intelligent but totally lacking in social graces. I exhibit some of the above traits but in a very mild form.

I'm curious, how many people on this board feel they or someone they know has AS.

Fusion :unsure:[/QUOTE]I am certain that one person I know well and get on well with, a very good mathematician, has Asperger's. There are several others I suspect of showing the condition.

It seems very clear that there is a continuous spectrum of behaviour from manically extrovert to profoundly autistic. On the autistic side of "normality" (whatever that is) I have personal contact with people ranging from mildly withdrawn and socially clumsy to the mentioned guy with AS. I show some of the symptoms myself but not very seriously. Some characteristics that seem common among these people and which I share include dedication to a particular hobby, fascination with word play, and a tendency to take things literally instead of or as well as figuratively.

There is some evidence that these personality traits may be influenced by heredity. A fascinating study came out a few years ago about the greatly increased incidence of autism and AS in and around Silicon Valley. Female geeks are very rare in the population as a whole (male geeks are not that common) and by far the highest concentration in the world is in that part of California. Now the observations may be explained entirely by better diagnosis (more obsessive parents paying much closer attention perhaps?) but the findings were rather suggestive.

Paul

Interesting question.

My 4 yr old shows signs of AS (according to his teachers). Others think he might be a high-functioning autistic. I'm not certain that I agree with either. He is clearly not normal compared to other kids his age. He gets OT (occupational therapy) and ST (speech therapy) four afternoons a week. He has a penchant for numbers (gee, I wonder where he got that from...) and has shown rudimentary ability for basic math (+, -, *, and /) in his head even though I have never worked with him on it.

One of my cousins is diagnosed to have Aspergers Syndrome, indeed sometimes difficult to interact with at familymeetings but she is a genius on certain points while laking the ability to understand in other fields. But just to go on symptoms that seem indeed to be there is not a good point. There are many symptons that can be pointed out to several disorders/illnesses/caracters. The best thing would be to consult a specialist in the field of the suspected disorder or illness. That person can usuallyt give more clearness and examples in the diagnose and the things that can help or have to be done.

[QUOTE=xilman]
It seems very clear that there is a continuous spectrum of behaviour from manically extrovert to profoundly autistic.[/QUOTE]

I often have the impression that people are much more likely to criticize others for being too "autistic" than for being too "outgoing". Doesn't anyone else also have this impression?

The replies so far echo what I expected to find.

Jinydu, There is NO accusation or criticism intended in this thread. It obviously hit a sore point for you. We all have talents and weaknesses in our personalities. As we grow older, we tend to round out the weaknesses. It is very important for all humans to have social contact but a person with AS has great difficulty interacting appropriately with others. AS is referred to as a spectrum disorder for the very good reason that symptoms occur in a very broad range from negligible to extreme. It also seems to be associated with high levels of mental achievement and, as Xilman has pointed out, is very prevalent in areas such as Silicon Valley.

I happen to be one of those people who could gladly go on a 7 year journey in space all alone and be happy just by myself. I don't like most people because they lack depth of personality. I have very few good friends yet when my father died a few months ago, I received dozens of condolence calls and cards. The reason is that as I have grown older, I have formed relationships with people who understand that I am extremely competent in my area of expertise. They are able to overlook my minor quirks. Please understand that I have never been diagnosed with AS, but as I previously stated, I recognize some of the symptoms in myself.:ermm:

So what kind of person did I marry? A total extrovert, the kind of person who can't stand to be out of contact with people. Unfortunately, also, a person who lacks depth of personality and has very little empathy. It lasted 11 years.

Xilman, I have to disagree on one minor point. The number of females who could be diagnosed with AS is about 1/2 as many as males. While the genetics are not yet understood, it does not appear to be sex linked, rather, the female brain compensates better possibly because of more interconnections between brain hemispheres and resulting increased empathic ability.

Fusion

[QUOTE=Fusion_power]Xilman, I have to disagree on one minor point. The number of females who could be diagnosed with AS is about 1/2 as many as males. While the genetics are not yet understood, it does not appear to be sex linked, rather, the female brain compensates better possibly because of more interconnections between brain hemispheres and resulting increased empathic ability.

Fusion[/QUOTE]I think we are in violent agreement. At least, I haven't yet seen anything we've said that contradicts each other.

I said there's some evidence that it's a hereditary condition but the case is not proven. I also said there are many fewer female geeks than male geeks. I said nothing about the incidence of women with AS. Let's take those in turn.

First, hereditary does not necessarily mean sex-linked by which I interpret as the genes responsible lie on the X or Y chromosomes. For example, amongst Caucasians, it doesn't matter whether your father or mother has brown eyes; you are only going to have blue eyes if [b]both[/b] parents carry the blue-eye gene. Inherit at least one brown-eye gene from either parent and you will have brown eyes (barring a spontaneous mutation of course). My family provides an example. My father is bb (and so has blue eyes) as am I and two of my brothers. My mother must be Bb because she has brown eyes, as does my remaining brother, but must carry the b gene because three of her sons are bb. Actually, she must be Bb from another line of evidence: her father had blue eyes and her mother brown. I really don't know whether my maternal grandmother was Bb or BB because I don't remember whether any of my aunts or uncles had/have blue eyes --- which would decide the question. If all were/are brown-eyed we can't draw any definite conclusion but the statistics would favour BB. But I digress. (incidentally there should be equal numbers of brown and blue eyed siblings in my immediate family. Draw the appropriate conclusion about small number statistics.)

Secondly, I did not make any claim that all geeks have AS or that all AS people are geeks. It would not be wise for me to make that claim because it is demonstrably untrue.
It is also observed that male geeks outnumber female geeks. I make no claim one way or the other as to how great a degree genetics makes to the likelihood of any one person showing the characteristics. It could be entirely a matter of culture or it could be strongly genetically based. I make no assumption other than that the genetic explanation is possible.

However, there is fairly strong evidence that AS people are more likely to be geeky than the general public. If that is the case, and I emphasise that jury is still out on this one, and if AS does have a genetic component, then the epidemiology from the Silicon Valley study, which suggests that having two geeky parents increases the likelihood of their offspring having AS, also supports the assumption that there may be a genetic component to the incidence of AS. Also on this assumption, we would expect to find fewer women with AS than men, and this expectation is supported by the evidence you introduce.

Paul

[QUOTE=Fusion_power]The replies so far echo what I expected to find.

Jinydu, There is NO accusation or criticism intended in this thread. It obviously hit a sore point for you. We all have talents and weaknesses in our personalities. As we grow older, we tend to round out the weaknesses. It is very important for all humans to have social contact but a person with AS has great difficulty interacting appropriately with others. AS is referred to as a spectrum disorder for the very good reason that symptoms occur in a very broad range from negligible to extreme. It also seems to be associated with high levels of mental achievement and, as Xilman has pointed out, is very prevalent in areas such as Silicon Valley.

I happen to be one of those people who could gladly go on a 7 year journey in space all alone and be happy just by myself. I don't like most people because they lack depth of personality. I have very few good friends yet when my father died a few months ago, I received dozens of condolence calls and cards. The reason is that as I have grown older, I have formed relationships with people who understand that I am extremely competent in my area of expertise. They are able to overlook my minor quirks. Please understand that I have never been diagnosed with AS, but as I previously stated, I recognize some of the symptoms in myself.:ermm:

So what kind of person did I marry? A total extrovert, the kind of person who can't stand to be out of contact with people. Unfortunately, also, a person who lacks depth of personality and has very little empathy. It lasted 11 years.

Xilman, I have to disagree on one minor point. The number of females who could be diagnosed with AS is about 1/2 as many as males. While the genetics are not yet understood, it does not appear to be sex linked, rather, the female brain compensates better possibly because of more interconnections between brain hemispheres and resulting increased empathic ability.

Fusion[/QUOTE]

Sorry if I was insensitive...

Folks,

Remember that discussions in on-line text forums such as this one necessarily fail to convey many aspects of human behvior such as gestures, body language, voice tone, and appearance. (E.g., I actually hardly ever wear a cheesehat outdoors except while attending sporting events, so my avatar photo is a bit misleading. :)

[quote]I have noticed that many of the people who frequent this message board exhibit behaviors that resemble Aspberger's syndrome. It is characterized by social ineptness,[/quote]How much social eptness can really be conveyed here? :)

[quote]tendency to focus exclusively on a fixed subject,[/quote]Comments that stray from a thread's topic are labelled "off-topic" and are considered mildly undesirable if carried far. So, of course you find focus on fixed subjects here!

[quote]inability to interact effectively with other people,[/quote]Uhmm ... how much effective interaction with other people [u]can[/u] any of us demonstrate here?

[quote]failed relationships,[/quote]Well, there are lots of questions about Prime95 stress test failures, but ... :)

[quote]lack of close friends,[/quote]You know by now what I'm going to ask: Doesn't the forum format limit how much any of us [u]can[/u] demonstrate closeness of friendship?

[quote]and a tendency toward outstanding achievement in some specific field such as mathematics.[/quote]In a forum whose subject is the quest for the largest known prime numbers ...

Let's all keep in mind the [u]selection effect[/u]: If the examples from which one draws conclusions are not an appropriate random representative subset of reality, then there is a "selection effect" because the sample has been selected in a nonrandom, nonrepresentative fashion.

I'm not disparaging discussion of Aspberger's syndrome; I'm cautioning everyone to think about how much the limitations of the forum format are affecting conclusions drawn from postings here.

Coincidentally, I was reading Slashdot earlier, where I was eventually lead to this page: [url]http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_5.html[/url]

Scroll down about half-way, to the contribution by Simon Baron-Cohen.

The entire series is well worth reading, IMAO.


Paul

Just a short note to xilman- Many thanks for pointing us at The Edge web site. I had never run across that site before, but can see it has a wealth of fascinating reading from many of my favorite authors, plus others that look like they may become favorites.

Norm

Maybe I am
 

I think there are a lot of people like me who exhibit all the signs pointed out (or think they might), but suffer from not being a very good mathematician :(

Seriously, there are a lot of people out there with happy families, balanced social life, who just enjoy looking for prime numbers in the same way others enjoy fishing.

I look upon my interest in primes as a part of my life which others joke about until I explain to them that it normal to seek out absolute truths, in the same way it is normal to seek out an understanding of the human condition, to have a healthy sex life, to enjoy food and drink, to make a contribution to society through work both paid and voluntary, to be a wise father, to understand the non absolute truths which pervade science, to find spirituality or moral suasion, to appreciate history and the lessons it teaches us and to enjoy art in all of its forms. Mmm, missed out a few things here. To me primes are just a part and a small part of what drives me. But it is a part!

Regards

Robert Smith

By the way, I thought I should mention that most many people show symptoms of many cognitive diseases and also many mental diseases simultaneously. I personally had a problem with that because I kept looking up all these diseases and suddenly thinking I had them. It took me a while to decide not to try to figure out "what disease I have". Unlike most people, it took me LESS time to try to figure out "who has what disease".

The truth is, many people in this site do show a few signs of AS. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people show many or most of the signs of AS. However, it is possible and actually more likely (according to my brother's father in law) for someone to show ALL the usual signs and still not have AS than it is for someone to show MOST but NOT ALL the usual signs and still have AS.

Sometimes One person's opinion is good enough for me :o)

This sure is a really interesting thread! A shame it died...

However, I don't believe we can judge each other of whether or not we have Asperger's Syndrome before actually meeting IRL.

But while on the subject, I have been diagnosed with having AS, so you may compare everyones contributions to mine and see if they give a positive match ;)
No. One cannot do that, since the AS spectrum is extremely wide and while some people may seem very socially handicapped others may seem to behave like any other person would do. I consider myself to be in the latter category.

I must admit that I have had trouble sometimes with understanding how to behave towards other people. However, I have actively tried to learn and I have become much better in acting like other people.

I think I've heard somewhere that among the common interests of "autistic people" are computers and mathematics..

That must be enough about myself ;)

OH

[QUOTE=xilman]Coincidentally, I was reading Slashdot earlier, where I was eventually lead to this page: [url]http://www.edge.org/q2005/q05_5.html[/url]

Scroll down about half-way, to the contribution by Simon Baron-Cohen.

The entire series is well worth reading, IMAO.[/QUOTE]Yes, Baron-Cohen is the leading proponent (and I must say he has amassed quite a lot of convincing evidence in this area) of the "extreme male brain" theory of Aspergers and autism. According to the theory, one begins by quantifying two personality metrics:

1) empathizing, as measured by being able to judge the emotional state of those around one (a classical hallmark of the "female" brain), call the resulting quantity E;

2) systematizing, as measured by ability to quantify, enumerate and perform related tasks (a classical hallmark of the "male" brain), call the resulting quantity S.

If one gives a standardized test designed to measure those to a bunch of people, then makes an x/y plot with E in the vertical (Y) direction and S in the horizontal (X) direction, the people with Asperger's and autism tend to cluster in the extreme lower right (low E, high S). Now this might seem like so much psychological mumbo-jumbo, except that Baron-Cohen et al have also related these alleged extreme-male-brain (EMB) symptoms to an excess of white matter - again, an extreme manifestation of the normal slight excess of white matter males have, relative to females. Interestingly, the extra white matter tends to contain neurons with relatively short-range connectivity, which is useful for systematizing tasks - for empathizing tasks one tends to need greater interhemispheric connectivity, which is contained in the grey matter - there tends to be less of that in male-type brains. Apparently, people with AS and autism tend to have larger-than-normal brains, but all the excess goes into white matter, not grey. These syndromes appear to also be related to ecxess fetal testosterone (it's not clear if that is a result of some genetic disposition, or if both genes and EFT are independently required). This would explain why it is predominantly males who exhibit AS and autism - a female with a genetic disposition of this type might only get shifted into the normal-male realm on the E/S scale by the excess fetal testosterone exposure, whereas a male brain would get shifted to an extreme male brain. One of the other curious physical traits that indicates a genetic component is at work here is that folks with AS and autism tend to have a shorter-than-normal ratio of [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11263685&dopt=Abstract]second-to-fourth-digit length[/url] in their fingers.

Baron-Cohen reasons that one tends to see a higher-than-normal incidence of AS and autism in places like Silicon valley is that those are hotbeds of systematizing brains - assuming there is a significant genetic component, then it makes sense that when a pair of geeky (i.e. systematizing) types marries and has children, their children would be likely to inherit the same tendency, perhaps in the extreme - it's clearly not as simple as eyecolor (which is also not quite as simple as most people think - but that's another thread), but the evidence is looking pretty compelling.

Fascinating stuff.

p.s.: edited the thread title to correct the spelling of "Asperger's"

I suggest all of you read DSM IV before discussing Asperger's Syndrome.

[QUOTE=ewmayer]One of the other curious physical traits that indicates a genetic component is at work here is that folks with AS and autism tend to have a shorter-than-normal ratio of [url=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11263685&dopt=Abstract]second-to-fourth-digit length[/url] in their fingers.[/QUOTE]
Fascinating! Thanks for posting that link. Note that the study had a rather small sample size and is open to criticism on those grounds.

For the record, my fourth fingers are noticeably longer than my second. The discrepancy is about 9mm on the right hand and 4mm on the left.


Paul

[QUOTE=Citrix]I suggest all of you read DSM IV before discussing Asperger's Syndrome.[/QUOTE]
For those of you who, like me, were previously unaware of the TLA "DSM", Google turned up: [url]http://www.psychologynet.org/dsm.html[/url]


Paul

Several interesting thoughts showed up in a google search on Aspergers syndrome. One of the more recent is that Aspergers may be linked to oxytocin metabolism.

I also found out that at least one Silverman has been associated with it.

"It seems as though the prevalence of AS in the gifted population may have contributed to the mythological stereotype of the socially impaired gifted child. It is also possible that some of the intensity issues and introversion attributed to gifted individuals with AS may have more to do with their giftedness than any neurological differences attributable to AS (Silverman, 1997)."

Thank you for correcting the spelling Ewmayer, I checked to be sure and found that the original documentation I was given has it spelled incorrectly as Aspberger's Syndrome. The correct spelling is Asperger's. Unfortunately, there are nearly as many web hits for one spelling as for the other.

Fusion

:no: Fusion_power, I get 1020 hits for the incorrect spelling and 1190000 for the correct one (with the word syndrome thrown in as well). Google even suggests the correct spelling when I input the wrong one.

[QUOTE=Fusion_power]

I also found out that at least one Silverman has been associated with it.


Fusion[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I have seen a child with Asperger's syndrome. He seemed normal to me, but he was obsessed with pictures of toilet seats. I guess that indicates something is wrong with him.

Citrix

(Asperger's syndrome)
 

[QUOTE=xilman]Fascinating! Thanks for posting that link. Note that the study had a rather small sample size and is open to criticism on those grounds.

For the record, my fourth fingers are noticeably longer than my second. The discrepancy is about 9mm on the right hand and 4mm on the left.
Paul[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
This is an unusual case Paul.
This is what Cheiro, the master of palmistry, after whom the science of Cheirognomy was named, has to say.
‘When the second finger (finger of Saturn) is square and heavy, it shows a deeply thoughtful, almost morbid nature. When pointed, the reverse – callousness and frivolity.
When the third finger (the finger of the sun) is nearly of the same length as the first, it denotes ambition for wealth and honour through its artistic leanings and a great desire for glory. If exceedingly long almost equal to the second, it denotes the nature that looks at life in the light of a lottery, one that gambles with all the money, life and danger- by one endowed withal with strong artistic instincts and talents..
The spatulate terminator of the 3rd. finger is an excellent sign for an actor, orator, or preacher. It indicates that his artistic gifts are strengthened by the dramatic or sensational power, the breadth, and the colour necessary to appeal to audiences.
When the 4th, or little finger, is well shaped and long, it acts as a kind of balance to the thumb, and indicates the power of the subject, to influence others.
When very long-almost reaching the nail of the 3rd. it shows great power of expression in both writing and speaking, and the owner is more or less the savant and philosopher, one who can converse with ease on any subject; one who interests and commands people by the manner in which he will apply facts and knowledge to the treatment of anything brought under his notice”
This is what Lori Reid, another expert has to say.
“A short middle finger though, reveals the true Bohemian type, one who flouts the traditions, rules, customs and mores of the time.. People with very short Saturn fingers especially loathe red tape and petty bureaucracy”
When its said 'short middle finger' its in respect to the other fingers I may add.
Well how do you make out? :question:
Mally :coffee:

[QUOTE=mfgoode]
This is what Lori Reid, another expert has to say...[/QUOTE]
Wasn't it Lori Reid who got AS "approved" as a diagnosis somewhere in the 90's?
Asperger himself did his discoveries backin the 40's but I believe it wasn't considered a "Unusual mental development" until Lori Reid brought it back.

OH

:unsure: Im not sure if this is the same Lori Reid who got AS approved.
ASFAIK she is an astrologer. But her husband is/was a psychologist.
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/dmstandard/article.html?in_article_id=329967&in_page_id=1766[/url]
Mally :coffee:

Now, let us use this information, where exactly do you want us to recruit new GIMPS members?

Now, what I am about to say is not meant as an insult, becuase I don't know any of you, but I just have to ask. When did what really amounts to being pathetic and a genius end up being a syndrome? Where I come from, a person with all those problems wouldn't be said to have a mental problem, they'd be said to be sad and pathetic and pitiful.

[QUOTE]When did what really amounts to being pathetic and a genius end up being a syndrome? Where I come from, a person with all those problems wouldn't be said to have a mental problem, they'd be said to be sad and pathetic and pitiful.[/QUOTE]

You're right, I guess all those people with Autism are just "pathetic". :rolleyes: I'll remember to tell my brother he's "sad and pathetic and pitiful" next time I talk to him.

Unusual mental developments.
 

:rolleyes:
Reality is relative, and terms differ across the Atlantic and Pacific.
What is sad, pathetic and pitiful in America is a syndrome in parts of the other Worlds. Thats what it is. Always encourage - never discourage!
Many or almost all genius' are eccentric. Take Paul Erdos and John Nash as contemporaries of our times to name a few. However the opposite is not true
One can be eccentric but not necessarily a genius. :wink:
Mally :coffee:

"Asperger's Syndrome, on Screen and in Life"

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/04/health/04aspe.html?em[/URL]

[quote]The three new movies would seem to have little in common: a romantic comedy about Upper West Side singles, a biopic about a noted animal science professor, and an animated film about an extended pen-pal relationship.

But all three revolve around [URL="http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/asperger-syndrome/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]Asperger’s syndrome[/URL], the complex and mysterious neurological disorder linked to [URL="http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/autism/overview.html?inline=nyt-classifier"]autism[/URL]. Their nearly simultaneous appearance — two open this summer, and the third is planned for next year — underscores how much Asperger’s and high-functioning autism have expanded in the public consciousness since [URL="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/dustin_hoffman/index.html?inline=nyt-per"]Dustin Hoffman[/URL]’s portrayal of an autistic savant in “Rain Man” 21 years ago.

“The more I learned about Asperger’s,” said Max Mayer, the writer and director of the romance, “Adam,” which opened last week, “the better metaphor it felt like for the condition of all of us in terms of a desire for connection to other people.”

. . .

Mr. Kaufman, of DisabilityWorks, said people were becoming more tolerant of Asperger’s “because it is front and center.”

“Awareness has been raised, and it’s fascinating to me,” he continued. “Is it acceptance? You could make the argument ‘yes.’ It is true that as it becomes the work of daily life, as we see people who have Asperger’s, it’s becoming less of a threat and part of our culture.”[/quote]

[quote=Fusion_power;46874]...It is characterized by social ineptness, tendency to focus exclusively on a fixed subject, inability to interact effectively with other people, failed relationships, lack of close friends, and a tendency toward outstanding achievement in some specific field such as mathematics...[/quote]

Well, that nails me to a wall. Perfect description. It wasn't mathematics though. It turned out to be computer hardware, and then programming.

Anyone heard about Gary McKinnon, the British hacker that entered the IT systems of NASA and Pentagon looking for UFO documents in 2001 and 2002?

He is told to have Asperger's Syndrome too...

Luigi

Well let´s see if that saves him from conviction...
If he will be extradited to the US I really doubt.
I know he very recently lost an appeal to the British High Court, so he will most probably be extradited. A similar appeal had already been rejected by the European Court of Human Rights.

Proposal: Asperger's to be plutoed
 

As you may have learned from news reports, the American Psychiatric Association's just-released new draft fifth edition DSM removes Asperger's Syndrome as a distinct diagnostic category. Instead, the draft incorporates "traits associated with Asperger's, such as difficulty with social interactions and limited, repetitive behaviors, in a broad category called autism spectrum disorder." ([URL]http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123527833&sc=fb&cc=fp[/URL])

Note that this is currently only a proposed change, not a done deal. See [URL]http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx[/URL], where is stated:

[quote][B][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][FONT=arial][B]Please note that the proposed criteria listed here are not final. [/B] These are initial drafts of the recommendations that have been made to date by the DSM-5 Work Groups. Viewers will be able to submit comments until April 20, 2010.[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/B][/quote]Judging by what I've heard so far, including an interview with someone diagnosed as having Asperger's, there's going to be a flood of submitted comments opposing that change.[B][COLOR=#333333][FONT=arial][FONT=arial]
[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/B]

[QUOTE=cheesehead;205245]As you may have learned from news reports, the American Psychiatric Association's just-released new draft fifth edition DSM removes Asperger's Syndrome as a distinct diagnostic category. Instead, the draft incorporates "traits associated with Asperger's, such as difficulty with social interactions and limited, repetitive behaviors, in a broad category called autism spectrum disorder."[/QUOTE]

There's a NYT op-ed on this today:

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/opinion/10grinker.html?ref=opinion]Disorder Out of Chaos[/url]: [i]Considering autism is a condition that runs along a spectrum, there is a scientific case for dropping the misleading diagnosis of Asperger’s.[/i]
[quote]IF you ask my daughter, Isabel, what autism means to her, she won’t say that it is a condition marked by impaired social communication and repetitive behaviors. She will say that her autism makes her a good artist, helps her to relate to animals and gives her perfect pitch.

The stigma of autism is fading fast. One reason is that we now understand that autism is a spectrum with an enormous range. Some people with autism are nonverbal with profound cognitive disabilities, while others are accomplished professionals.

Many people with milder symptoms of autism have, for the past 20 years or so, received a diagnosis of Asperger’s disorder. Some autistic adults call themselves “Aspies” to celebrate their talents and differences. And many parents have embraced the label because they have found it less stigmatizing, and so it has eased their sense of loss.

This may soon change, however. The American Psychiatric Association, with its release this week of proposed revisions to its authoritative Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is recommending that Asperger’s be dropped. If this revision is adopted, the condition will be folded into the category of “autism spectrum disorder,” which will no longer contain any categories for distinct subtypes of autism like Asperger’s and “pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified” (a category for children with some traits of autism but not enough to warrant a diagnosis).

The change is welcome, because careful study of people with Asperger’s has demonstrated that the diagnosis is misleading and invalid, and there are clear benefits to understanding autism as one condition that runs along a spectrum. [/quote]
[i]My Comment:[/i] The quotes I've seen from folks diagnosed with Asperger's (e.g. in the NPR article cited by cheesehead above) who object to the new autism-spectrum classification seem to project a kind of misguided vanity in their "specialness" rather than any basis in the science. "I want to people to think Einstein, not adult diapers", that sort of thinking.

[quote=ewmayer;205264][I]My Comment:[/I] The quotes I've seen from folks diagnosed with Asperger's (e.g. in the NPR article cited by cheesehead above) who object to the new autism-spectrum classification seem to project a kind of misguided vanity in their "specialness" rather than any basis in the science. "I want to people to think Einstein, not adult diapers", that sort of thinking.[/quote]Hence my post's title: "Proposal: Asperger's to be [I]plutoed[/I]". I expect a reaction somewhat analogous to the general public's after Pluto's reclassification, but mainly within the Asperger's-concerned community of diagnosees, their family and friends, except insofar as it is publicized more generally.

However, this time objectors have time to lodge complaints directly with the proposing team within the American Psychiatric Association, ahead of the official decision.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;205264]There's a NYT op-ed on this today:

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/10/opinion/10grinker.html?ref=opinion]Disorder Out of Chaos[/url]: [i]Considering autism is a condition that runs along a spectrum, there is a scientific case for dropping the misleading diagnosis of Asperger’s.[/i]

[i]My Comment:[/i] The quotes I've seen from folks diagnosed with Asperger's (e.g. in the NPR article cited by cheesehead above) who object to the new autism-spectrum classification seem to project a kind of misguided vanity in their "specialness" rather than any basis in the science. "I want to people to think Einstein, not adult diapers", that sort of thinking.[/QUOTE]

I wonder what the other autistics think of being characterized as wearing diapers.

[QUOTE=lfm;205297]I wonder what the other autistics think of being characterized as wearing diapers.[/QUOTE]
I represent that remark!

[QUOTE=lfm;205297]I wonder what the other autistics think of being characterized as wearing diapers.[/QUOTE]

I took that pretty much straight from the NPR piece ... can't say whether that sort of thinking is common amongst the Asperger's folks:
[quote]But the change is going to be hard for some people with Asperger's, says Michael John Carley, executive director of the Global and Regional Asperger Syndrome Partnership in New York and author of [i]Asperger's From the Inside Out[/i]. "I personally am probably going to have a very hard time calling myself autistic," says Carley, who was diagnosed with Asperger's years ago.

Many people with Asperger's take pride in a diagnosis that probably describes some major historical figures, including Albert Einstein and Thomas Edison, Carley says. Under the new system, those people would represent just one extreme of a spectrum. On the other extreme is "somebody who might have to wear adult diapers and maybe a head-restraining device. This is very hard for us to swallow," he says.[/quote]
One of the ramifications I heard discussed on the evening news last night which might prove beneficial for folks with Asperger's (but of a less-functioning flavor than the Einsteinian or Edisonian, i.e. folks who suffer some genuine social and/or learning impairment as a result) is that the proposed ASD diagnosis might make it easier for them to obtain help and insurance coverage for e.g. special educational needs related to their condition.

[quote=Fusion_power;46874]I thought about this and decided to post to open up a question that may be taboo to many.

I have noticed that many of the people who frequent this message board exhibit behaviors that resemble Aspberger's syndrome. It is characterized by social ineptness, tendency to focus exclusively on a fixed subject, inability to interact effectively with other people, failed relationships, lack of close friends, and a tendency toward outstanding achievement in some specific field such as mathematics.[/quote]

I'm impressed. You could see that in a few forum entries. Wow - we don't need personal contact with the doctor - you can just read some entries and it's fine.

I think you are kind of biased because you're son has it. I doubt that there are a lot of cases (somebody suspected the TV figure 'Dr. House' has it - but he's just an ass ;=).

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