YOLO vs. delayed gratification
 

A friend of a friend is very "into" (for lack of a better term) delayed gratification. Buy that new car? No, that's money that could be saved for retirement. Go on an overseas trip? Sure, but only after achieving financial independence. Eat at a fancy restaurant? No, that's money that can be invested and/or put in an emergency fund.

He follows the news fairly regularly, but what often makes the news is death - deaths from mass shootings, car crashes, the pandemic, police brutality, terrorrism, extreme weather, and so on. The very real possibility of dying before reaching his early 60s never seems to cross his mind. He's like a wartime infantry soldier who refuses to smoke not because he doesn't enjoy it or can't afford it, but because he might get lung cancer 30 years later.

With that said, which motto/philosophy is more similar to yours? Are you more like the YOLO guy with hang gliding injuries and no retirement savings at 60? Or are you more like the delayed gratification dude who might die before he can really enjoy the things he's been postponing?

I know that those are two extremes, but which of those lifestyles do you more closely identify with?

I chose mostly delayed:
I'm just a few years away from retiring from teaching at age 50. I was really frugal in my 20s figuring I'd save until I had kids and then I forgot to have kids.

Small sacrifices when young prevent large sacrifices when old. Saving 10% of salary at age 22 is worth a year of labor at age 62 (assumption of doubling investments every ~10 years, so 4 doublings in 40 yrs= ~15x money). Save when you're 22 so you don't have to work after 62.

The "mostly" is due to a car habit that is fairly serious- the denizens of my garage cost me more than I paid for my house.

Haha, I love the "I am not telling you [U]yet[/U]" option. Brilliant, in the context of the topic. :lol:

Not that it would be the one to chose, but it is funny.

For me, the pool sounds like "gratification procrastination", and I am half of both... I always did my money "easy" in my life, without working hard like digging holes or splitting wood, and without cheating people or taking advantages of them. Maybe I was just privileged, but I never was so serious about saving today to have more tomorrow, or saving today because you don't know what tomorrow brings. Wealth accumulates slowly if you don't waste/scatter (don't know the right word) in excess. I am also an incurable optimist, I see the future of humanity, and my future, in very bright colors. I don't own much savings, and I don't have a pension fund, as long as I can think I will be able to make a decent living. After that, bye bye birdie. On the other hand, I always agreed with losing a bit now to gain more later, or losing a battle to win the war. This helped me countless times in life.

Didn't vote yet. Still thinking...

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;579164]The "mostly" is due to a car habit that is fairly serious- the denizens of my garage cost me more than I paid for my house.[/QUOTE]That sounds interesting! Maybe tell us more?

:mike:

When I fell into my career, I found I saved by accident more than I needed. So, I set a plan to save for a "dream car" as a way to give purpose to the money I wasn't spending. Used exotic cars aren't too expensive to buy, partly because maintenance is sometimes unpleasant on the wallet and partly because really rich people seem to change their minds a lot about their cars.

The first dream car was a Lotus Elise, the ideal track-toy car. Problem: I was so scared of it that it took me 5 years to get it on track! I've been racing it in autocross and track-practice-days for 8 years after I got over that fear.

Dream car #2 was an Aston Martin Vantage. My ideal GT car, perfect for weekend trips and date nights. A rare stick-shift, it has turned slightly collectible in that it is now gently rising in value.

Dream car #3 just happened a few months ago- a 911 GT3RS. A race car for the street, but cheap (by exotic car standards) to drive and maintain.
I still have all 3 cars, plus an EV commuter powered mostly by the solar panels on my roof.

Our dream motorcycle was/is a Ducati.

We finally bought one a week ago. We had to travel to Florida to buy it and we rode it home 500 miles.

The day after, at roughly 650 miles on the odometer, a dog darted out from some tall grass into the road and we hit it at 60MPH and killed it instantly.

We [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNYn7E6Mk4"]skidded and tumbled[/URL] on the pavement for what seemed forever and the bike went into a ditch.

We don't know how our insurance will handle the situation but we are too sore to think/move right now.

:sad:

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;579240]We [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNYn7E6Mk4"]skidded and tumbled[/URL] on the pavement for what seemed forever and the bike went into a ditch.[/QUOTE]AtGAtT? Or do you have a rash?

We had a real expensive helmet and jacket on, but we were wearing jeans and cheap gloves.

So some parts of our body got rashed up pretty good.

We have hundreds of thousands of miles on motorcycles (and we used to be a medic) so we know what the risks are.

It is difficult to balance comfort and protection with gear. (They always say to dress for the crash.)

Probably we will buy better gloves and some sort of abrasion-resistant pants.

We have had four fairly serious accidents thus far on two wheels. Two were caused by animals, one by a faulty ABS brake system and one by gravel in the road.

YOLO?

:mike:

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;579245]YOLO?[/QUOTE]YODO also.[QUOTE=Xyzzy;579240]... and the bike went into a ditch.[/QUOTE]I blame the ditches.

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;579240]Our dream motorcycle was/is a Ducati.

We finally bought one a week ago. We had to travel to Florida to buy it and we rode it home 500 miles.

The day after, at roughly 650 miles on the odometer, a dog darted out from some tall grass into the road and we hit it at 60MPH and killed it instantly.

We [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VNYn7E6Mk4"]skidded and tumbled[/URL] on the pavement for what seemed forever and the bike went into a ditch.

We don't know how our insurance will handle the situation but we are too sore to think/move right now.

:sad:[/QUOTE]They should find out whose dog it was, and have a little chat with their homeowners insurance carrier. If that doesn't work, sue the dog's owners for all the money in the world.

Meanwhile, hope you're healing up OK. From the previous experience you mentioned, I'm sure you know what I can only imagine, "It could have been a whole lot worse."

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;579255]They should find out whose dog it was, and have a little chat with their homeowners insurance carrier. If that doesn't work, sue the dog's owners for all the money in the world.[/QUOTE]Things don't work like that here.

:mike:

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;579290][QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;579255]They should find out whose dog it was, and have a little chat with their homeowners insurance carrier. If that doesn't work, sue the dog's owners for all the money in the world.[/QUOTE]Things don't work like that here.[/QUOTE]I wasn't being entirely serious... I don't know of anywhere that things DO work that way. Hopefully your own insurance will pay the bills. Hopefully they won't raise your rates too much. The circumstances as described in the accident report may affect that.

If somebody had actually committed a moving violation that caused the wreck, and gotten ticketed, your insurance company would likely have held them completely at fault.

It should be covered under the "Acts of Dog" claws.

Yuck. Mother life's a bihtc sometimes.

Hope you are ok and get well soon. Metal sheets not an issue, they can get bent back, and painted pink.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;579296]...
I don't know of anywhere that things DO work that way.
...[/QUOTE]
In Belgium (at least) the owners of an animal are responsible for the consequences of its actions. A dog irrupting on a road would be considered a fault because of a lack of supervision by its owner. The bad (?) side is that the compensations don’t reach the absurd amounts seen in some cases in the USA.

Jacob

[QUOTE=S485122;579345]In Belgium (at least) the owners of an animal are responsible for the consequences of its actions. A dog irrupting on a road would be considered a fault because of a lack of supervision by its owner. The bad (?) side is that the compensations don’t reach the absurd amounts seen in some cases in the USA.[/QUOTE]In theory, the victim could sue the dog's owner for any resulting injury or damage. In practice, it's better if the at-fault owners just do the right thing.

There were two (non-traffic) dog-at-fault incidents in my neighborhood a couple of years ago. A neighbor's dog was friendly with people, but not well socialized with other dogs. It would go berserk if it saw another dog. It got loose twice and attacked dogs that were being walked. The first time, only the other dog was injured. County Animal Control documented the injuries and impounded the attacking dog. The owners got it back some time later.

The second time, the other dog's owner was injured as well as his dog. He had to go to the ER for stitches. Animal Control impounded the dog again. The owners of the attacking dog willingly paid the medical bills, and opted to have their dog put down.

I enjoy watching professional cycling. Every couple of years, you will see a dog escape from its owners and bolt into the peloton, even during the grand tours. It's very frightening to watch the results. Since cycling is taken very seriously in Europe especially at that level, the announcers will point out the serious ramifications for the dog and its owners.

[QUOTE=LaurV;579186]Haha, I love the "I am not telling you [U]yet[/U]" option. Brilliant, in the context of the topic. :lol:
[/QUOTE]
I've watched the poll results quite closely over the past ten days, and the delayed gratification guys generally responded before the YOLO dudes. Maybe the latter group was too busy living it up to respond quickly? :smile: (yeah, I know, small sample size and all that)

I voted for a roughly equal mix of both. I've done quite a bit of YOLO stuff (see: [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/michael-kwok/albums/72157719215640091[/url] for a sample) , but I've always chosen jobs with better long-term benefits over those with better salaries. I also prioritized paying off the mortgage early over buying fancy clothes, TVs, etc.

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;579164]I chose mostly delayed:
...
The "mostly" is due to a car habit that is fairly serious- the denizens of my garage cost me more than I paid for my house.[/QUOTE]
Cool! That's like the opposite of me, though. I've rented/driven some nice cars on occasion, but the ones I've owned are fairly modest. My motto is "if the brakes, steering, and air conditioner works, drive it!". This has led to some interesting experiences driving clunkers with broken speedometers and bashed-in side doors, but that's another story for another day...

[QUOTE=MooMoo2;580050]I've watched the poll results quite closely over the past ten days, and the delayed gratification guys generally responded before the YOLO dudes.[/QUOTE]
You have a gender bias in you assumption.

I didn't vote yet, but the responses are trending much more towards the delayed gratification side than the YOLO side. The opposite would probably be the case if you were to post this on a skydiving or van life forum.

But I do wonder what the results would be if you asked the general adult population in developed countries.

[QUOTE=MooMoo2;580050]I've watched the poll results quite closely over the past ten days, and the delayed gratification guys generally responded before the YOLO dudes. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580058]You have a gender bias in you assumption.[/QUOTE]
I've heard people say "hey guys!" when the group being addressed is predominantly (or even entirely) female.

But yes, there is a bit of gender bias in my assumption. For better or worse, the participant pool for prime-hunting projects skews heavily male:
[url]https://primes.utm.edu/bios/index.php?match=A[/url]
[url]https://primes.utm.edu/bios/index.php?match=B[/url]
(etc.)

[QUOTE=MooMoo2;580182]I've heard people say "hey guys!" when the group being addressed is predominantly (or even entirely) female.[/QUOTE]Yes, and often the speaker is female. But, then you tacked on the "dudes". That is doubling down on it. And yes, females sometimes use "Dude!" as an exclamation referring to another female.
Be aware of your audience, quite a few are not from the USA and some are English as a fifth language.

But.. his audience is MF users, who are over 90% male. The lack of female regulars here make it a reasonable (though not obvious) belief that no person who participated in this survey is female.

Where's the bias?

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;580202]The lack of female regulars here ...[/QUOTE]... that you have been led to believe.

Some people might claim to be, or imply they are, male when in fact they are not. How would you know for sure?

It also works in reverse; someone using a female name/persona to get more attention and/or help.

[QUOTE=retina;580204]Some people might claim to be, or imply they are, male when in fact they are not.[/QUOTE]Especially when the group appears to be ~90% male.

[QUOTE=retina;580204]... that you have been led to believe.[/quote]
So how else are we supposed to act, if not on the basis of our beliefs? If you have evidence to change our belief (mf.org population is > 10% female), present it.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;580207]Especially when the group appears to be ~90% male.[/QUOTE]
I do not claim to understand the logic behind how a minority group would identify themselves in an online psuedonymous forum, but I dont see any advantage in hiding (or revealing, for that matter) your sex/gender in mf.org. Can you explain why female forumites would like to hide that fact here, just because there are lot more males than females?

I was skimming through a book titled [I]Die With Zero[/I] that had a pretty good approach to balancing YOLO and delayed gratification. An excellent summary is at: [url]https://www.debtfreedr.com/die-with-zero/[/url]

Long story short, your ability to extract value from your money typically declines past your late 20s, so it often pays to spend it now rather than later. For example, you might be able to summit Everest for $X at age 30, but you'll likely need to pay $X+$Y for additional porters and supplies at age 50 to accomplish that goal. At age 70, you might not be able to reach the top regardless of how much money you're willing to pay for it.

Now most people aren't interested in climbing Everest or even mountains in general, but that applies to many other fun activities in life. Learning to snowboard in your 20s is easier and cheaper than learning to snowboard in your 60s, even though both are doable. Some older relatives of mine in their 70s and 80s couldn't go on a recent backpacking trip with the younger folks, even though they could easily afford to.

I save around 50 percent of my income (I have a middle class income). That works great in a bigger city and me not having kids right now.

I buy a lot of stuff that helps me improve my skills (e-books, books, ...) to live the life-long learning paradigm. I did recognize that most expensive things don't make me happy. Still I am not a minimalist. It's not really delayed gratification because I still can buy stuff I want. I also recently bought a PS5 but I unfortunately probably won't play as much as I should.

It's a personal choice and the chance of dying soon is in a normal case very exaggerated. Those who propagate it will live the longest. ;-)

I hope to can go to retirement with 50 but we will see. Life cannot be planned fully.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;581637]At age 70, you might not be able to reach the top regardless of how much money you're willing to pay for it.
[/QUOTE]


I don't think it's the reason that you are 70 but with 70 and more or less rich you did fulfill a lot of desires you originally had. So you keep on searching for the next, more expensive fix.

It's the reason some older (and younger) very rich guys buy iPhones with gold and diamonds for 40,000 USD or want to go with a rocket to space for 10 minutes for 28 million USD.

You'll constantly move your life style expectations up if you're not careful. It's also called 'lifestyle creep'. Avoid that at all cost. It's also some expectation management for yourself.

So it's more of a mental thing than a thing of the age.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;581637]Learning to snowboard in your 20s is easier and cheaper than learning to snowboard in your 60s, even though both are doable.[/QUOTE]


Why should it easier (and cheaper) to learn it with 20s than with 60s? The course will cost the same only the serious injury risk will be a little bit higher.

The mental capacity (for learning) can still be very high in your 60s, 70s, 80s if you take care of your brain and your mind. There are countless examples.

[QUOTE=joblack;582069]I save around 50 percent of my income (I have a middle class income). That works great in a bigger city and me not having kids right now.
...
I hope to can go to retirement with 50 but we will see. Life cannot be planned fully.[/QUOTE]
Congrats, you're on track to retire in 16 years or less (the "less" will depend on how long you've already been living that lifestyle):
[url]https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/[/url]
"If you save a reasonable percentage of your take-home pay, like 50%, and live on the remaining 50%, you’ll be Ready to Rock (aka “financially independent”) in a reasonable number of years – about 16 according to this chart."

My personal retirement goal is age ~55.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;581637]Learning to snowboard in your 20s is easier and cheaper than learning to snowboard in your 60s, even though both are doable. Some older relatives of mine in their 70s and 80s couldn't go on a recent backpacking trip with the younger folks, even though they could easily afford to.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=joblack;582072]Why should it easier (and cheaper) to learn it with 20s than with 60s? The course will cost the same only the serious injury risk will be a little bit higher.

The mental capacity (for learning) can still be very high in your 60s, 70s, 80s if you take care of your brain and your mind. There are countless examples.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how hard it is to learn something new in your 60s vs your 20s, but I do know that the cost of lift tickets and gear rentals are outstripping median wages and inflation :sad:

[QUOTE=MooMoo2;582082]
My personal retirement goal is age ~55.
[/QUOTE]

My personal goal in retirement is to reach age 150. (I have been retired for more that ten years already.) Whether or not that happens depends on too many other people.

150, in which base?

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;582162]150, in which base?[/QUOTE]

16 of course