I just read where members of the European Union are being really critical of Great Britain's very slow vaccine roll-out. Their response was to threaten the other member countries by saying they might refuse to share it. I was under the impression that Great Britain had broken away from the EU. Apparently not.

I really can't tell whether you are being ironic or whether you posting in good faith the result of you having read some rather dodgy news source.

Clearly it must be time for my irony detector to have a service.

[QUOTE=xilman;570154]I really can't tell whether you are being ironic or whether you posting in good faith the result of you having read some rather dodgy news source.

Clearly it must be time for my irony detector to have a service.[/QUOTE]

It is definitely in good faith. Otherwise, I would not have mentioned it. I believe I have gotten it backwards though. The source is NBC. :blush:

[URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-threatens-restrict-exports-covid-19-vaccines-amid-rollout-anger-n1255636"]E.U. threatens to restrict exports of Covid vaccine amid rollout anger.[/URL]

I have some difficulty with reading. Perhaps someone else can simplify it.

[QUOTE=storm5510;570156]I have some difficulty with reading. Perhaps someone else can simplify it.[/QUOTE][quote]<snip>
"E.U. member states are united: Vaccine developers have societal and contractual responsibilities they need to uphold," Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides said late Monday after two tense negotiating sessions with representatives of the vaccine maker AstraZeneca, in which the commissioner said "insufficient explanations" were provided.

AstraZeneca took E.U. officials by surprise last week when it announced its initial delivery volumes of the Covid-19 vaccine, developed in collaboration with U.K.'s Oxford University, would be lower than originally anticipated because of manufacturing issues in Europe. The company did not say how much lower the volumes will be
<snip>
Britain, which has recently left the E.U., has so far administered more than 10 doses per 100 of its residents, while the top performing E.U. nation, Denmark, stands at 3.6 doses per 100 residents. Germany and France are at 2 and 1.6 doses respectively.[/quote]The EU is dissatisfied with AstraZeneca. It seems they're failing to meet contractual obligations for delivery, and haven't explained themselves sufficiently.

I'm not sure this is the only reason the UK is outpacing the EU in getting people immunized.

[QUOTE=storm5510;570156]It is definitely in good faith. Otherwise, I would not have mentioned it. I believe I have gotten it backwards though. The source is NBC. :blush:

[URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/eu-threatens-restrict-exports-covid-19-vaccines-amid-rollout-anger-n1255636"]E.U. threatens to restrict exports of Covid vaccine amid rollout anger.[/URL]

I have some difficulty with reading. Perhaps someone else can simplify it.[/QUOTE]Okey-doke. On a per capita basis the UK is markedly out-performing the rest of the countries with significant populations, with the sole exception of Israel. That is why I picked up on your post.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;570161]The EU is dissatisfied with AstraZeneca. It seems they're failing to meet contractual obligations for delivery, and haven't explained themselves sufficiently.

I'm not sure this is the only reason the UK is outpacing the EU in getting people immunized.[/QUOTE]I am sure it is not.

The UK prioritized availabilty and continuity of supplies over price.

[QUOTE=xilman;570166]The UK prioritized availabilty and continuity of supplies over price.[/QUOTE]

Meanwhile, Barbados is having to deal with individuals who think the rules don't apply to them.

I won't bore you with all the links to news articles where Tourists are breaking the rules. Being found out.

And dragged off to jail. Or, paying lots of money to avoid jail, and then returning back home in shame...

TL;DR: Barbados is taking this extremely seriously.

Follow our sovereign rules. Or don't come as guests.

Your choice.

Our responsibility.

[QUOTE=chalsall;570169]Meanwhile, Barbados is having to deal with individuals who think the rules don't apply to them.[/QUOTE]As is most everywhere else.

See [url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55810229[/url] for how a European country is dealing with them.

I am confined to quarters. To a fair approximation, anyway.

[QUOTE=xilman;570170]I am confined to quarters. To a fair approximation, anyway.[/QUOTE]

I copy you.

I'm sometimes going into high-risk spaces, measuring the empirical.

I wear an N95 mask during the site-survey. And strip down and shed my clothes and take a shower before going back to the console to tail the logs.

Seriously.

I’m confined since beginning of March 2020, started my own lockdown prior to my employer instructions but mainly after looking at Italy, Spain and Portugal situations. Visited once one school during autumn half-term but since then only groceries once per week.

[QUOTE=chalsall;570169]Meanwhile, Barbados is having to deal with individuals who think the rules don't apply to them...[/QUOTE]

The same applies to the 360-million, or so, in the U.S. Since I am retired, I only go out for essentials. When I go to the grocery, I see people with masks under their noses, under their chins, and some with no masks at all. They wear them properly to get in the front door where management is watching. After that, as I wrote above.

About a quarter of the population here do not take this seriously at all. My own son does not take it seriously. This has left a rift between us because I won't go anywhere unless it is absolutely necessary. He thinks I should be visiting him, and his S.O., every week. Nope, won't happen. There is no way for me to know who either has been exposed to. He just doesn't get it. My sister is a front-line worker. She understands.

I saw this a few weeks ago.

Razer is developing a reusable transparent N95 surgical mask with microphones and of course Chroma RGB LEDs :grin: It's like an N95 mask for gamers, it's pretty funny but looks cool. (btw we are missing the laughing until you cry smiley that discord have, it is called : joy : )

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvWiCclESL8&t=1m7s[/url]
[url]https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/12/22221344/razer-project-hazel-n95-respirator-mask-coronavirus-chroma-rgb-concept[/url]

Following up on [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=567821&postcount=1213]this post[/url] and [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=568407&postcount=1242]this post[/url]:

Two weeks ago, while under court order not to work in health care as a condition of being released from jail, [url=https://apnews.com/article/wisconsin-media-coronavirus-pandemic-arrests-coronavirus-vaccine-87540a894f593cd9252772bd106aff8e]Pharmacist accused of spoiling vaccine has license suspended[/url][quote]MILWAUKEE (AP) — A state board on Wednesday suspended the license of a Wisconsin pharmacist accused of ruining more than 500 doses of COVID-19 vaccine because he thought it was unsafe.

Steven Brandenburg was working at Advocate Aurora Health in Grafton, about 20 miles (32 kilometers) north of Milwaukee, when he was arrested last month following an investigation into the 57 spoiled vials of the Moderna vaccine. He has not been criminally charged. A status conference in the case is scheduled for Tuesday.

The Wisconsin Pharmacy Examining Board said in its order that Brandenburg cannot practice pharmacy while the suspension is in place. It said Brandenburg agreed to the action "in order to focus" on possible charges against him.[/quote] Now,

[url=https://apnews.com/article/milwaukee-wisconsin-coronavirus-pandemic-4a525f3f139ce0d917a36421825b4773]Pharmacist charged in COVID-19 vaccine case to plead guilty[/url][quote]MILWAUKEE (AP) — A Wisconsin pharmacist accused of trying to spoil dozens of vials of COVID-19 vaccine is facing 20 years in prison after he agreed Tuesday to plead guilty in federal court, prosecutors said.

Steven Brandenburg, 46, of Grafton, is charged with two counts of attempting to tamper with consumer products, which is described in the plea deal as showing "reckless disregard for the risk that another person will be placed in danger of death or bodily injury."

Brandenburg faces a maximum sentence of 10 years and a $250,000 fine on each count. He had originally been charged with attempted misdemeanor property damage but prosecutors warned more serious charges could follow if tests showed the doses were ruined.[/quote]I reckon that now, his plea of Guilty being a felony conviction, his pharmacy license will be [i]revoked[/i].

There's a story in the Dutch news about a woman who went to get tested for Covid but ended up being vaccinated instead by mistake. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Nick;570355]There's a story in the Dutch news about a woman who went to get tested for Covid but ended up being vaccinated instead by mistake. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]The mind boggles.

Reminds me of a story of the guy who insisted he wanted to be castrated despite all the medics who tried to talk him out of it. The operation went ahead and in the recovery ward a nurse expressed surprise and told him that she could understand someone wanting to be circumcised but that castration was really unusual. "Ah, that was the word" came the response.

Perhaps this should be moved to the dumb jokes thread.

[QUOTE=Nick;570355]There's a story in the Dutch news about a woman who went to get tested for Covid but ended up being vaccinated instead by mistake. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]Huh. No luck finding that story so far. However, judging by the following, it is possible that now they're trying to vaccinate anything that moves.

[url=https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55549656]Coronavirus: Dutch shocked to be EU vaccination stragglers[/url][quote]In a proudly well-organised country, with a well-funded health service, the first Dutch nationals will receive their coronavirus jabs on Wednesday - ten days after their European neighbours and nearly a month after the UK.[/quote][b]EDIT:[/b] The story is now all over creation. DutchReview tells it as a comedy of errors. [url=https://dutchreview.com/coronavirus/dutch-woman-vaccinated-instead-of-tested/]Dutch woman accidentally vaccinated instead of getting COVID-19 test[/url][quote]The woman had received a letter calling for her to get tested for the virus — but this is where the confusion began. She did not read her letter properly and assumed it was giving her the date and time for her vaccine, not a test.

When she arrived at Rotterdam The Hague Airport, her local GGD location, members of staff failed to check her letter upon entering the vaccination hall. Following this, she had to go to the registration desk and show the confirmation letter to prove she had an appointment.

Ahh, you may be thinking, surely this would have put an end to all this confusion? Nope. It seems the universe wanted this woman vaccinated. She had forgotten her letter to prove the confirmation of her appointment. Usually, when this happens, the member of staff will search the database to ensure a person has an appointment — BUT NO.

The computer was running too slowly and the staff member did not want to hold up the line. The woman was waved forward and found herself receiving a coronavirus vaccine.[/quote]

In Germany, Der Spiegel is reporting that the blacked-out passages in the vaccine contract published by the European Commission are readable.

[QUOTE=Nick;570438]In Germany, Der Spiegel is reporting that the blacked-out passages in the vaccine contract published by the European Commission are readable.[/QUOTE][url=https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/29/eu_commission_vaccine_contract_redaction_fail/]European Commission redacts AstraZeneca vaccine contract – but forgets to wipe the bookmarks tab[/url][quote]Although the main text of the contract had been heavily redacted in places, nobody thought to check the bookmarks tab had also been redacted before dumping the contract online as a PDF.

A non-redacted section of the contract states: "The Receiving Party shall treat all Confidential Information as secret and confidential and shall not use, copy or disclose to any third party any Confidential Information of the Disclosing Party."

It adds that the Receiving Party (ie, the EU) shall "ensure the protection of confidential information or documents with the same level of protection as its own confidential information or documents and in any case with due diligence."[/quote]:missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth: :missingteeth:

[QUOTE=Nick;570355]There's a story in the Dutch news about a woman who went to get tested for Covid but ended up being vaccinated instead by mistake. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]We learned this in medic school: [URL]http://www.ihi.org/resources/Pages/ImprovementStories/FiveRightsofMedicationAdministration.aspx[/URL]

:mike:

[YOUTUBE]ZMGWLLDSA3c[/YOUTUBE]

Those two sound like people that are trying to sell their books. They use wording that imbues the virus with intelligence and intent. Viruses that can't spread person to person are not usually much of a problem and don't get mentioned much (in the broader media.)

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;570540]<snip>
Viruses that can't spread person to person are not usually much of a problem and don't get mentioned much (in the broader media.)[/QUOTE]I can think of a number of viral diseases which are generally spread by mosquitoes rather than person-to-person like colds, flu, or COVID-19.

Among these, West Nile and Saint Louis Encephalitis appear in the "broader media" reasonably often. Zika virus was widely epidemic in 2015. Other serious insect-borne viral illnesses include yellow fever and dengue fever. Neither is especially common in the good ol' USA or Europe, though, so they don't get into the "broader media" much.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;570546]I can think of a number of viral diseases which are generally spread by mosquitoes rather than person-to-person like colds, flu, or COVID-19.[/QUOTE]Those are not zoonotic (IIRC), which is the type that was discussed in the video.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;570548]Those are not zoonotic (IIRC), which is the type that was discussed in the video.[/QUOTE]West Nile is zoonotic in birds, especially corvids. I believe Saint Louis Encephalitis is also maintained in bird populations. Dengue and yellow fever are IIRC only maintained in primate populations.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;570540]Viruses that can't spread person to person are not usually much of a problem and don't get mentioned much (in the broader media.)[/QUOTE]
TMV can be spread by insects I believe. Neither can it be spread person to person, which is probbably why it doesn't get mentioned much.

[QUOTE=xilman;570573]TMV can be spread by insects I believe. Neither can it be spread person to person, which is probbably why it doesn't get mentioned much.[/QUOTE]TMV is Tobacco Mosaic Virus, yes? It is indeed spread by insects, but it does not infect humans AFAIK.

It infects plants, notably of the Nightshade family [i]Solanaceae[/i]. It holds the distinction of being the first virus ever discovered, and also the first virus ever purified.

What is going ON out there???
 

[url=https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-01-30/dodger-stadiums-covid-19-vaccination-site-shutdown-after-dozens-of-protesters-gather-at-entrance]Dodger Stadium's COVID-19 vaccination site temporarily shut down after protesters gather at entrance[/url][quote]Dodger Stadium's mass COVID-19 vaccination site was temporarily shut down Saturday afternoon when about 50 protesters gathered at the entrance, frustrating hundreds of motorists who had been waiting in line for hours.
<snip>
A [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=485d0NgREAY&feature=youtu.be]livestreamed video[/url] of the gathering shows a group of protesters on a sidewalk as cars navigate cone-lined lanes toward the stadium, which served as a COVID-19 testing site for months. A Times photographer witnessed much of the incident.

Protesters carried signs that read "Save Your Soul TURN BACK NOW," "CNN IS LYING TO YOU," "RECALL GAVIN NEWSOM" and "TAKE OFF YOUR MASK." Some handed out pamphlets to motorists who had their windows down. Some cars blared their horns as they drove by.

Protesters spoke through bullhorns: "Turn back while you can," one man said. "You're a lab rat."

Public officials swiftly weighed in, expressing frustration.

"We will not be deterred or threatened," Gov. Gavin Newsom tweeted. "Dodger Stadium is back up and running."[/quote]The [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/01/30/anti-vaccine-protest-dodger-stadium/]WAPO story[/url] mentioned something (my bolding) that should have somebody up on felony charges:[quote]Los Angeles-based singer Adam Michaelson, who brought his 81-year-old mother to the stadium for her first dose of the Moderna vaccine, estimated the demonstration delayed them for about an hour.

"It's just disappointing," Michaelson said in an interview. "I realize there are people who have been anti-vaxxers for a while but to take this extra step of trying to prevent other people from getting it just to me seems like a whole new level of evil."

Michaelson said he and several other drivers nearly left the site when [b]one protester who was dressed as a police officer directed them out of line.[/b][/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;570546]I can think of a number of viral diseases which are generally spread by mosquitoes rather than person-to-person like colds, flu, or COVID-19.[/QUOTE]

I've had both Dengue and Chikungunya. Neither an enjoyable experience...

Thankfully, the latter has largely exhausted itself (herd immunity). But, my Gods, did it ever have a massive (negative) effect on my life!

I nominally type at 80 words a minute. For the first two months after infection, I was ordered by my doctor to not type at all.

I of course ignored that advice, but still couldn't sustain more than ten words per minute, for only about ten minutes per hour.

Dengue is still a serious issue and results in a much more intense headache. But a least you know once you take the damage (and survive; or not) there aren't going to be /too/ many long-term effects.

[B][I][U]Importantly[/U][/I][/B], if you suspect Dengue *do* *not* take anything without consulting medical advice.

Dengue is also known as "hemorrhagic fever" for a reason.

Take the wrong drugs for the pain, and you could bleed out internally.

YMMV.

[QUOTE=chalsall;570595][B][I][U]Importantly[/U][/I][/B], if you suspect Dengue *do* *not* take anything without consulting medical advice.

Dengue is also known as "hemorrhagic fever" for a reason.

Take the wrong drugs for the pain, and you could bleed out internally.

YMMV.[/QUOTE]Hmm, I'd read that it's also called "breakbone fever."

[Google Google] Sure enough, a severe form is called "Dengue hemorrhagioc fever." Huh. Couple of other things I didn't know in this article (my emphasis):

[url=https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/05/01/mmwr050120]Dengue fever on the rise in United States[/url][quote][b]Dengue fever is the most frequently occurring arthropod-borne viral disease in the world.[/b] Dengue is transmitted through the bite of Aedes mosquito vectors (Aedes aegypti and less commonly, Aedes albopictus or Aedes polynesiensis), which are distributed widely in subtropical and tropical areas and are present in about half of all U.S. counties.

Dengue is caused by a Flavivirus with four different serotypes (DENV-1 to DENV-4), which are endemic throughout the tropics and are common causes of acute febrile illness of travelers. Symptoms of dengue typically begin three to 15 days after being bitten by an infected mosquito. Clinical manifestations can range from an asymptomatic or mild febrile illness to a life-threatening, hemorrhagic fever syndrome.

Human infection with one serotype is believed to provide serotype-specific lifelong immunity. However, subsequent infections (secondary infections) with another serotype increase the risk of developing a more severe disease.
<snip>
[b]Dengue vaccine[/b]

In May 2019, the Food and Drug Administration approved use of Dengvaxia, a live attenuated tetravalent vaccine, in 9- through 16-year-old children and adolescents who have laboratory-confirmed prior dengue infection and live in endemic areas (the U.S. territories of American Samoa, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands).

The vaccine is not approved for use in people who had not been infected previously by any dengue virus serotype or for whom this information is unknown because they may be at risk of developing severe dengue if they contract the disease after being vaccinated.

The vaccine is administered as three separate injections, with the initial dose followed by two additional injections given six and 12 months later, respectively.

The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has not yet issued recommendations for Dengvaxia use in the U.S.
<snip>[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;570602]Hmm, I'd read that it's also called "breakbone fever."[/QUOTE]

That's because of the absolutely unbelievable pain one experiences for the first 24 or so hours.

If I May please share, I actually consider myself lucky with my personal experience. I had no knowledge (nor much advice) of this domain before my interaction with it.

I woke up with an intense headache. But also freezing cold (being said by a Canadian in Barbados).

Rather than facing the cold going to the medicine cabinet for painkillers (many of which also thins the blood), I instead pulled on a T-Shirt and wrapped myself in a blanket and shivered in bed.

This choice, made when I was mostly asleep, might have saved my life.

Seriously. :chalsall:

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;570531][YOUTUBE]ZMGWLLDSA3c[/YOUTUBE][/QUOTE]
I found most of their arguments that the virus "came from a lab" unconvincing.

For example, they claimed that natural epidemic viruses tend to become less virulent over time, while lab-produced viruses become more virulent. I would ask, "Over what time frame, and based on what previous examples of lab-produced epidemic viruses?" The COVID-19 virus has been out for just over a year.

Their argument that the fact that the COVID-19 virus spreads better indoors than outdoors indicates it's made in a lab, seems utterly ludicrous. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't [i]any[/i] virus that infects people and is spread person-to-person, especially through the air, spread better indoors than outdoors? That certainly seems to be the case with colds and flu.

Another argument was that COVID-19 was both able to jump from another species to humans, and also able to be transmitted human-to-human, indicate it came from a lab. So I guess any number of flu viruses were made in labs too, right?

One point they made does mark the COVID-19 virus as highly unusual, and that is its capacity to attack more than just the respiratory system.

And, as they said, and was pointed out at the beginning of May in this very thread, "gain of function" virus research [i]was[/i] (and for all I know still is) going on at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

[URL="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-55904369"]Novel therapeutic treatment.[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;570531][YOUTUBE]ZMGWLLD SA3c[/YOUTUBE][/QUOTE]
And WHO has made a statement after an investigation:
[url]https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/02/09/965814241/who-very-unlikely-coronavirus-leaked-from-lab-more-study-needed-to-trace-source[/url]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/ap-norc-poll-3rd-adult-skeptical-vaccine-3779574a6d45d38cfc1d8615eb176b2d]AP-NORC poll: A third of US adults skeptical of COVID shots[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) - About 1 in 3 Americans say they definitely or probably won't get the COVID-19 vaccine, according to a new poll that some experts say is discouraging news if the U.S. hopes to achieve herd immunity and vanquish the outbreak.
<snip>
The poll of 1,055 adults, taken Jan. 28 through Feb. 1, provides insight into the skepticism.

Of those who said they definitely will not get the vaccine, 65% cited worries about side effects, despite the shots' safety record over the past months. About the same percentage said they don't trust COVID-19 vaccines. And 38% said they don’t believe they need a vaccine, with a similar share saying that they don't know if a COVID-19 vaccine will work and that they don't trust the government.
<snip>[/quote]

So, the data are in:
In the good ol' USofA, flu cases are way-way down, because people are doing what they have always been told to do to stop the spread (stop spraying droplets and wash up).

[URL="https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-precautions-flu-respiratory-infections-cases"]https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-precautions-flu-respiratory-infections-cases [/URL]
[QUOTE]Instead, positive flu tests reported in December are a little less than [B][U]one one-hundredth[/U][/B] of all of those tallied in December 2019, according to data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. RSV’s drop in reported cases — to [B][U]one two-hundredth[/U][/B] of those a year earlier — is even bigger.[/QUOTE]
[attach]24311[/attach]

So, that has been having an effect on the graphs that I have been producing. Knocking out of the all of those flu deaths has skewed the data lower and the apparent COVID effect is less pronounced. The winter flu peak flu deaths has pushed the weekly death rate up to 6000 to 17000 above the summer low in the last few years. With those taken into account the graph graph is really bad.
[attach]24312[/attach]

Notice by a bottle of hand gel at the entrance to a building:
"Please satanise your hands here."

[url]https://imgur.com/gallery/idohX2s[/url]

"[FONT=serif]Intranasal fusion inhibitory lipopeptide prevents [/FONT][FONT=serif]direct-[/FONT][FONT=serif]contact SARS[/FONT][FONT=serif]-CoV[/FONT][FONT=serif]-2 transmission in ferrets"[/FONT]
[FONT=serif]Article: [URL]https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/early/2021/02/16/science.abf4896.full.pdf[/URL][/FONT]

Three-and-a-half months incubation time?
 

[url]https://gov.fm/index.php/component/content/article/35-pio-articles/news-and-updates/412-mv-chief-mailo-returns-to-fsm-after-more-than-one-year-abroad-one-isolated-but-confirmed-case-of-covid-19-on-board-citizens-encouraged-to-keep-distance-from-the-vessel-quarantine-sites-until-further-notice[/url] [quote]The crew have been strictly confined to the ship since September 22nd, 2020. On January 7th, twelve (12) crew were tested for COVID-19. One (1) individual was tested twice and, on both occasions, positive for COVID-19.[/quote]Maybe a four-month quarantine period is in order?

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;571899]
And it's rich, coming from someone who presumes to declare [i]people[/i] useless, or unworthy of receiving the COVID vaccine - people with existing health problems likely made bad decisions. Old people aren't going to live long anyway. Screw 'em. Just hand the vaccine out at random.
[/QUOTE]
What a misrepresentation of my position. I'm saying a life is a life and that no group of people is more important than any other group.

People who've likely made bad decisions about their health or who may not have much longer to live deserve to get the vaccine just as much as people who likely took care of their health and/or have many decades left to live. No more, no less. If I really declared smokers, the obese, the elderly, etc., useless or unworthy of getting the vaccine, I would have moved them to the back of the line or denied them altogether.

By eliminating vaccine priority requirements, you get rid of a lot of the paperwork and bureaucracy and can therefore vaccinate people at a faster rate. If a whole bunch of people are drowning, you don't debate who is more worthy of being rescued first. You just start from the people closest to you regardless of their age or whether or not it was their fault for going into the water.

[color=red][b]MODERATOR NOTE:[/b] Moved from "Peak Oil" thread along with some response posts, including one of mine[/color]

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571909]By eliminating vaccine priority requirements, you get rid of a lot of the paperwork and bureaucracy and can therefore vaccinate people at a faster rate. If a whole bunch of people are drowning, you don't debate who is more worthy of being rescued first. You just start from the people closest to you regardless of their age or whether or not it was their fault for going into the water.[/QUOTE]Bad analogy. Not everyone is drowning.

Younger people either have no symptoms, or very light symptoms, at rates far higher than other groups. So it could be argued that they don't need any vaccine (not yet anyway). Whereas "older" or "poor health" people often have high rates of severe difficulties dealing with the virus, so it could be argued that not prioritising the more needful group, and instead giving vaccines to those other groups that have no immediate need, is effectively saying "sucks to be you".

[QUOTE=retina;571910]Bad analogy. Not everyone is drowning.

Younger people either have no symptoms, or very light symptoms, at rates far higher than other groups. So it could be argued that they don't need any vaccine (not yet anyway). Whereas "older" or "poor health" people often have high rates of severe difficulties dealing with the virus, so it could be argued that not prioritising the more needful group, and instead giving vaccines to those other groups that have no immediate need, is effectively saying "sucks to be you".[/QUOTE]Exactamundo.

Saying "vaccinating at random is (or might be) faster" is fatuous. Absent a large stockpile, vaccinations can't be given faster than vaccine can be made.

A young man and his grandmother, arrive at the clinic to get vaccinated.

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. I'll toss a coin to see who gets it
Man: No, don't use a coin. Give it my my granny
Nurse: Nope. We have to be fair. Can't play favourites. But good news, you won the toss
<Nurse, not swayed by his pleas, proceeds to give the man the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
<Three weeks pass, granny gets infected and dies>
<Three more weeks pass>
Nurse (on the phone, to the man): Hi. The shipment has arrived. Bring in your granny
Man: Nevermind.

Alternative version:

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. Granny goes first
Man: Cool, let's do it
<Nurse proceeds to give granny the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
<Three weeks pass, granny gets infected and gets a mild headache>
<Granny goes on to discover a cure for cancer, end world hunger, and prove RH and P=NP>

[QUOTE=retina;571910]Bad analogy. Not everyone is drowning.

Younger people either have no symptoms, or very light symptoms, at rates far higher than other groups. So it could be argued that they don't need any vaccine (not yet anyway). Whereas "older" or "poor health" people often have high rates of severe difficulties dealing with the virus, so it could be argued that not prioritising the more needful group, and instead giving vaccines to those other groups that have no immediate need, is effectively saying "sucks to be you".[/QUOTE]
Fine, I'll use another one based on this week's news:

A large number of homeless people are freezing. Shelter is available, but you can only fit a small number of people in your van to transport them there. You will then have to come back to load the next group of people onto the van. Do you:

A. - Keep driving around the neighborhood in search of the most poorly dressed vulnerable people who're least likely to survive without shelter

or

B. - Load the first people you see into your van and quickly come back for more?

I'm just saying that option B makes more sense.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571925]Fine, I'll use another one based on this week's news:

A large number of homeless people are freezing. Shelter is available, but you can only fit a small number of people in your van to transport them there. You will then have to come back to load the next group of people onto the van. Do you:

A. - Keep driving around the neighborhood in search of the most poorly dressed vulnerable people who're least likely to survive without shelter

or

B. - Load the first people you see into your van and quickly come back for more?

I'm just saying that option B makes more sense.[/QUOTE]Just as bad. Not everyone is freezing. Only a certain class of people are freezing. In this case people in one location.

To fulfil your analogy you would have people in all places being herded into vans and taken to shelter because parts of Texas have no electricity. We have to be "fair" right? Even though the other places don't need it, well, we can't let them miss out, that would be unfair. So everyone gets a turn in the van.

[QUOTE=retina;571923]A young man and his grandmother, arrive at the clinic to get vaccinated.

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. I'll toss a coin to see who gets it
Man: No, don't use a coin. Give it my my granny
Nurse: Nope. We have to be fair. Can't play favourites. But good news, you won the toss
<Nurse, not swayed by his pleas, proceeds to give the man the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
<Three weeks pass, granny gets infected and dies>
<Three more weeks pass>
Nurse (on the phone, to the man): Hi. The shipment has arrived. Bring in your granny
Man: Nevermind.

Alternative version:

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. Granny goes first
Man: Cool, let's do it
<Nurse proceeds to give granny the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
<Three weeks pass, granny gets infected and gets a mild headache>
<Granny goes on to discover a cure for cancer, end world hunger, and prove RH and P=NP>[/QUOTE]
This scenario is just as likely:

A young man and his grandmother, arrive at the clinic to get vaccinated.

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. I'll toss a coin to see who gets it
Man: No, don't use a coin. Give it to my granny
Nurse: Nope. We have to be fair. Can't play favourites. But good news, you won the toss
<Nurse, not swayed by his pleas, proceeds to give the man the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
[B]<Three weeks pass, granny stays at home since she's retired. But she still gets infected on her rare trip to the grocery store and dies>[/b]
<Three more weeks pass>
Nurse (on the phone, to the man): Hi. The shipment has arrived. Bring in your granny
Man: Nevermind.

Alternative version:

Man (to nurse): We're here to get vaccinated
Nurse: Great. We have one dose left in this shipment. Granny goes first
Man: Cool, let's do it
<Nurse proceeds to give granny the vaccine>
Man: When is the next shipment
Nurse: Six weeks. We'll call to remind you
<Three weeks pass, granny gets infected and gets a mild headache. [B]The man gets infected, has minimal or no symptoms, and proceeds to infect hundreds of other people while working as a cashier at the grocery store.>
<One of those people infected by the man would have gone on to discover a cure for cancer, end world hunger, and prove RH and P=NP. But he dies before getting that opportunity.[/b]>

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571929] [B]The man gets infected, has minimal or no symptoms, and proceeds to infect hundreds of other people [/QUOTE]

There's your mistake.

[QUOTE=masser;571932]There's your mistake.[/QUOTE]
What mistake? Most transmission is caused by people who have no or very minimal symptoms:
[url]https://consumer.healthday.com/amp/about-half-of-sars-cov-2-infection-from-asymptomatic-individuals-2649765579[/url]

Vaccinated people are less likely to transmit the virus, so vaccinating a young healthy worker who's frequently in contact with others at his/her job could save more lives than vaccinating an elderly retired person:
[url]https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/health/astrazeneca-vaccine-transmission-gbr-intl/index.html[/url]

[QUOTE=retina;571926]Just as bad. Not everyone is freezing. Only a certain class of people are freezing. In this case people in one location.

To fulfil your analogy you would have people in all places being herded into vans and taken to shelter because parts of Texas have no electricity. We have to be "fair" right? Even though the other places don't need it, well, we can't let them miss out, that would be unfair. So everyone gets a turn in the van.[/QUOTE]
No, my analogy makes sense. Not everyone is freezing since some people are wearing multiple layers of clothes and are in little to no danger of hypothermia. But you dedicate your resources to getting as many people into the van as quickly as possible instead of searching the neighborhood to find those in tank tops and flip flops.

Edit: Since nearly all Americans and Europeans have a significant chance of being exposed to the virus, they're pretty much all in Texas in that analogy. Getting Hawaiians into the van would be like vaccinating people in New Zealand, which has minimal cases.

You said:

"This scenario is just as likely:"

and I'm saying: "No it's not."

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571935]No, my analogy makes sense.[/QUOTE]Yours fails in that there is not a single person driving around in a large town. There are lots of people going around their own overlapping areas. If one van misses someone (the driver was looking on the other side of the street at the time), another one will swing by.

Further your earlier assumption that people with pre-existing conditions are solely responsible for it because of something they did is false. Type-2 diabetes is has risk factors, but those are the exclusive causes. People who have had industrial exposure to chemicals are victims of accidents (like a former coworker is such a case, they were alerted about SARS back in the day before almost anyone had heard about it.) Birth defects account for many pre-existing conditions. Cystic fibrosis is such a condition and is not the result of personal behaviour. There are genetic predispositions to high cholesterol that increase the risk of heart problems (and would put someone at increased risk of COVID). Sailors that were exposed to asbestos did not choose that risk (which may have been unknown at the time). The soldiers that got dosed with Agent Orange did not choose that.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;571941]your earlier assumption that people with pre-existing conditions are [b]solely[/b] responsible for it because of something they did is false. Type-2 diabetes is has risk factors, but those are the exclusive causes. People who have had industrial exposure to chemicals are victims of accidents (like a former coworker is such a case, they were alerted about SARS back in the day before almost anyone had heard about it.) Birth defects account for many pre-existing conditions. Cystic fibrosis is such a condition and is not the result of personal behaviour. There are genetic predispositions to high cholesterol that increase the risk of heart problems (and would put someone at increased risk of COVID). Sailors that were exposed to asbestos did not choose that risk (which may have been unknown at the time). The soldiers that got dosed with Agent Orange did not choose that.[/QUOTE]
I never said that:
[url]https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=571677&postcount=110[/url]
[url]https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=571909&postcount=1301[/url]

Likely!=solely

In most developed countries, poor people are likely to have made one or more significant bad decisions in their lives. Of course, there are plenty of people who're poor even though they've done everything right, which is why there needs to be a good social safety net. But that's a different topic for a different thread.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571952]Likely!=solely[/quote]Your implication that it is the overriding factor in their health. Please support that with data.
Looking at [URL="https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html"]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html [/URL] I see the following that are risk factors that are absolutely not caused by the person's knowing behavioural choice or almost certainly not caused by it:
[CODE]Cancer
Chronic kidney disease
Down Syndrome
Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from solid organ transplant
Pregnancy
Sickle cell disease
Asthma (moderate-to-severe)
Cystic fibrosis
Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from blood or bone marrow transplant, immune deficiencies, use of corticosteroids, or use of other immune weakening medicines
Neurologic conditions, such as dementia
Pulmonary fibrosis (having damaged or scarred lung tissues)
Thalassemia (a type of blood disorder)
Type 1 diabetes mellitus[/CODE] Pregnancy is a normal human condition. It is not a behaviour that is a poor choice (except with explicit prior knowledge.)


[quote]In most developed countries, poor people are likely to have made one or more significant bad decisions in their lives.[/QUOTE]
Not supported by the data: [URL="https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/why-poverty-not-personal-choice-reflection-society"]https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/why-poverty-not-personal-choice-reflection-society [/URL]
[url]https://nlihc.org/resource/point-view-poverty-choice[/url]
Being born into poverty is not a choice. When many full time jobs won't pay enough for a person to have a living wage, there is a structural problem. Instead of a safety net alone, having a path that is wide enough for both feet is a better first step. Safety nets are often thin and people fall through them. Over the past 3 years I have been dealing with people that have had safety nets fail. Some of them only started to get caught again because COVID required the net to be tightened for the benefit of society as a whole.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571929]<snip>
Alternative version:
<snip>
[B]The man gets infected, has minimal or no symptoms, and proceeds to infect hundreds of other people while working as a cashier at the grocery store.>
<One of those people infected by the man would have gone on to discover a cure for cancer, end world hunger, and prove RH and P=NP. But he dies before getting that opportunity.[/b]>[/QUOTE]IMO for a grocery store cashier to infect "hundreds" of others on the job, both the cashier and the store would really have to work at it.[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571952]<snip>
In most developed countries, poor people are likely to have made one or more significant bad decisions in their lives.[/quote]I reckon [i]all[/i] adults in [i]any[/i] country are likely to have made one or more significant bad decisions in their lives.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;571961]Your implication that it is the overriding factor in their health. Please support that with data.
Looking at [URL="https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html"]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html [/URL] I see the following that are risk factors that are absolutely not caused by the person's knowing behavioural choice or almost certainly not caused by it:
Cancer
...
[/QUOTE]
The first risk factor you cite is ~40% preventable:
[url]https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/more-than-4-in-10-cancers-and-cancer-deaths-linked-to-modifiable-risk-factors.html[/url]

Obesity is also a risk factor, and ~40% of US adults are obese:
[url]https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html[/url]

Another ~15% of the country's adult population smokes, which is another risk factor:
[url]https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/index.htm[/url]

There's some overlap in those groups, but it would be fair to say that around half of the US adult population has a risk factor that's preventable. Of the remaining half, a considerable number have no risk factors, so the percentage of people with risk factors that are not preventable is quite small.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;571961]
Not supported by the data: [URL="https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/why-poverty-not-personal-choice-reflection-society"]https://ihpi.umich.edu/news/why-poverty-not-personal-choice-reflection-society [/URL]
[url]https://nlihc.org/resource/point-view-poverty-choice[/url]
Being born into poverty is not a choice. When many full time jobs won't pay enough for a person to have a living wage, there is a structural problem. Instead of a safety net alone, having a path that is wide enough for both feet is a better first step. Safety nets are often thin and people fall through them. Over the past 3 years I have been dealing with people that have had safety nets fail. Some of them only started to get caught again because COVID required the net to be tightened for the benefit of society as a whole.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/amp/[/url]

"three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.

Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class"

Does the minimum wage need to be increased? Yes. Should people who've been laid off receive more benefits than what they're currently getting? Of course. Are there people who're poor even though they've done everything they could? Definitely. But none of that changes the fact that most poor people in developed countries are poor because of the bad choices and decisions they took in life. And again, most != all, there are many exceptions.

[QUOTE=The Carnivore;571935]No, my analogy makes sense. Not everyone is freezing since some people are wearing multiple layers of clothes and are in little to no danger of hypothermia. But you dedicate your resources to getting as many people into the van as quickly as possible instead of searching the neighborhood to find those in tank tops and flip flops.[/QUOTE]You have already divided people into separate classes. Those in areas of high risk of freezing (Texas), and other areas with minimal or no risk (everywhere else). So following your analogy for vaccination, we should be offering van rides to people everywhere, even those that don't need it in low risk places.

The same with this virus. Divide people into classes, high risk vs low risk. And offer services to those at high risk [i]first[/i]. Don't start out by offering it to low risk people. That is wasteful and silly.

[QUOTE=retina;571923]
<Granny goes on to [...] prove RH and P=NP>[/QUOTE]
Bwaaa haha :rofl:
Didn't see that coming! :lol:

:tu: :bow:

[url=https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-anthony-fauci-coronavirus-pandemic-f13611719ad8d1655ed7b354af75a9a9]J&J’s 1-dose shot cleared, giving US 3rd COVID-19 vaccine[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. is getting a third vaccine to prevent COVID-19, as the Food and Drug Administration on Saturday cleared a Johnson & Johnson shot that works with just one dose instead of two.

Health experts are anxiously awaiting a one-and-done option to help speed vaccinations, as they race against a virus that already has killed more than 510,000 people in the U.S. and is mutating in increasingly worrisome ways.

The FDA said J&J's vaccine offers strong protection against what matters most: serious illness, hospitalizations and death. One dose was 85% protective against the most severe COVID-19 illness, in a massive study that spanned three continents - protection that remained strong even in countries such as South Africa, where the variants of most concern are spreading.[/quote]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/texas-lifts-covid-19-mask-mandate-ed7cd1b065a1afd71175f255fb5148aa]Texas becomes biggest US state to lift COVID-19 mask mandate[/url] (my emphasis)[quote]AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Texas is lifting its mask mandate, Gov. Greg Abbott said Tuesday, making it the largest state to no longer require one of the most effective ways to slow the spread of the coronavirus.

The announcement in Texas, where the virus has killed more than 43,000 people, rattled doctors and big city leaders who said they are now bracing for another deadly resurgence. One hospital executive in Houston said he told his staff they would need more personnel and ventilators.

Federal health officials this week urgently warned states to not let their guard down, warning that the pandemic is far from over.

Abbott, a Republican, has faced sustained criticism from his party in America's biggest red state over the statewide mask mandate — which was imposed eight months ago — as well as business occupancy limits that Texas will also scuttle next week. The mask order was only ever lightly enforced, even during the worst outbreaks of the pandemic.

"Removing statewide mandates does not end personal responsibility," said Abbott, [b]speaking from the crowded dining room of a restaurant in Lubbock, surrounded by several people not wearing masks.[/b]

"It's just that now state mandates are no longer needed," he said.

The repeals take effect March 10.
<snip>[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;572916][url=https://apnews.com/article/texas-lifts-covid-19-mask-mandate-ed7cd1b065a1afd71175f255fb5148aa]Texas becomes biggest US state to lift COVID-19 mask mandate[/url] (my emphasis)[/QUOTE]Darwinism in action.

Had my first jab this afternoon. Must head over to the poll.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;572916][URL="https://apnews.com/article/texas-lifts-covid-19-mask-mandate-ed7cd1b065a1afd71175f255fb5148aa"]Texas becomes biggest US state to lift COVID-19 mask mandate[/URL] (my emphasis)[/QUOTE]

If they feel they do not needs masks, then their vaccine supply chain should be cut off. The state government in Austin is always rubbing the federal government in D.C. the wrong way. I have no idea of what it is they are expecting to accomplish.

[QUOTE=storm5510;572932]I have no idea of what it is they are expecting to accomplish.[/QUOTE]It's obviously political. They were getting a lot of static for rules they weren't seriously enforcing anyway, so might as well drop them.

Texans can live with that. At least most of them. Just like with a power grid run on the cheap, when Old Man Winter comes for a visit.

I'm sure with the State dropping any pretense at trying to control to the pandemic, the number of COVID-19 cases will go up in Texas. But since enforcement was lax, I'm not sure how much.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Another political angle is trying to distract Texans from the fact that many Texans are still without running water, or still have to boil their water.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;572937]It's obviously political. They were getting a lot of static for rules they weren't seriously enforcing anyway, so might as well drop them.

Texans can live with that. At least most of them. Just like with a power grid run on the cheap, when Old Man Winter comes for a visit.

I'm sure with the State dropping any pretense at trying to control to the pandemic, the number of COVID-19 cases will go up in Texas. But since enforcement was lax, I'm not sure how much.

[B]EDIT:[/B] Another political angle is trying to distract Texans from the fact that many Texans are still without running water, or still have to boil their water.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of Texas. I cannot remember who it was. Several years ago, some well known individual was pushing for Texas to succeed from the U.S. This would have been a monstrous can of worms, for them.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;572937]
[b]EDIT:[/b] Another political angle is trying to distract Texans from the fact that many Texans are still without running water, or still have to boil their water.[/QUOTE]

From the state that brought you no electricity and no water... No masks!

[QUOTE=storm5510;573145]Speaking of Texas. I cannot remember who it was. Several years ago, some well known individual was pushing for Texas to succeed from the U.S. This would have been a monstrous can of worms, for them.[/QUOTE]
Secede is the word for parting ways at the state level, like divorce at the individual level. [URL]https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/02/01/texas-secession-bill-formally-filed-in-state-legislature/[/URL] The USA, like NATO, has peaceful mechanisms for adding, but not for subtracting, member states. Just now recovering from a power outage in Wisconsin, fcause and extent unknown. Lots of beeping UPSes woke me.

[QUOTE=kriesel;573160][B]Secede[/B] is the word for parting ways at the state level, like divorce at the individual level. [URL]https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/02/01/texas-secession-bill-formally-filed-in-state-legislature/[/URL] The USA, like NATO, has peaceful mechanisms for adding, but not for subtracting, member states. Just now recovering from a power outage in Wisconsin, fcause and extent unknown. Lots of beeping UPSes woke me.[/QUOTE]

I felt the word I used was not correct. I tried variations, but Firefox flagged all of them as incorrect as well.

Aspirin!
 

Regular low-dose aspirin takers were shown less likely to get sick with Covid19, and if they get sick, not for as long, and have less aftereffects, per Israeli researchers. [URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/aspirin-may-protect-against-covid-19-israeli-research-finds/[/URL]

I noticed this AP story the other day...

[url=https://apnews.com/article/public-health-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-ron-desantis-889df3826d4da96447b329f524c33047]Virus tolls similar despite governors' contrasting actions[/url][quote]Nearly a year after California Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered the nation’s first statewide shutdown because of the coronavirus, masks remain mandated, indoor dining and other activities are significantly limited, and Disneyland remains closed.

By contrast, Florida has no statewide restrictions. Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis has prohibited municipalities from fining people who refuse to wear masks. And Disney World has been open since July.

Despite their differing approaches, California and Florida have experienced almost identical outcomes in COVID-19 case rates.

How have two states that took such divergent tacks arrived at similar points?[/quote]

I have been following the unfolding story concerning the mystery of why less developed countries like India and much of Africa don't have as big a Covid problem as the first world nations.

It appears a big part of the reason is simply obesity.

There are many articles that google will reveal, the one below is just one example.

[URL="https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html"]https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=tServo;573818]It appears a big part of the reason is simply obesity.
[/QUOTE]Who knew?

Only many researchers, and most of the general public, for decades, for many diseases.

[QUOTE=kriesel;557018]Consider also to what extent some of those conditions are substantially self inflicted, by choices to eat too much, exercise too little...[/QUOTE]
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html[/URL]

We know what we can do about it. [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html[/URL]
The hard part for many of us is doing it, consistently and enough to make a positive difference. Some face additional challenges from injury or genetics.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/features/physical-activity-for-all.html[/URL]
Be well and good luck.

[QUOTE=kriesel;573830]Who knew?

Only many researchers, and most of the general public, for decades, for many diseases.


[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html[/URL]

We know what we can do about it. [URL]https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html[/URL]
The hard part for many of us is doing it, consistently and enough to make a positive difference. Some face additional challenges from injury or genetics.

[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/features/physical-activity-for-all.html[/URL]
Be well and good luck.[/QUOTE]I don't know what kind of "genetics" would cause a serious health problem to skyrocket within two generations, or to affect people in the good ol' USA at a higher rate than most other countries.

[b]EDIT:[/b] Meanwhile, back on topic... [url=https://apnews.com/article/europe-summits-germany-coronavirus-pandemic-37c3f8fa9523c58576cbff6d9c13a103]Sweden is latest country to stop using AstraZeneca vaccine[/url][quote]BERLIN (AP) — Sweden on Tuesday became the latest country to pause use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine as European regulators review safety data following reports of dangerous blood clots in some recipients.
<snip>
The Swedish Public Health Agency said Tuesday that it would suspend use of the AstraZeneca vaccine pending the results of the EMA meeting. Germany, France, Italy and Spain were among countries that suspended use of the vaccine on Monday.

"The decision is a precautionary measure," Sweden's chief epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, said in a statement.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;573831]I don't know what kind of "genetics" would cause a serious health problem to skyrocket within two generations, or to affect people in the good ol' USA at a higher rate than most other countries.[/QUOTE]Hmm, I claimed no such thing. However:
[CODE]how people respond to an environment that promotes physical inactivity and intake of high-calorie foods suggests that genes do play a role in developing obesity. [/CODE][URL]https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/causes.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States[/URL]
Then fold in redlining, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert"]food deserts[/URL], [URL="https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/09/poverty-rates-for-blacks-and-hispanics-reached-historic-lows-in-2019.html"]poverty[/URL], stress, nutrition quality, etc. as they affected differently individuals of various genetic lineages over decades. The dramatic rise in [URL="https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/processed-foods/"]highly processed foods[/URL] and [URL="https://corporate.mcdonalds.com/corpmcd/our-company/who-we-are/our-history.html"]fast food[/URL] over the past several decades is probably a factor.
Shifts in how [URL="http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html#influence"]leisure[/URL] or [URL="https://www.mic.com/articles/124711/your-health-and-fitness-with-office-jobs-vs-physical-jobs"]work[/URL] time is spent play a part.

None of that should be misconstrued as assigning blame. It can be useful to understand what an individual is facing in the battle of the bulge/bathroom scale. Becoming more fit has benefits vs. Covid19 risks and many other diseases.

[QUOTE=kriesel;573837]
Then fold in redlining, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_desert"]food deserts[/URL], [URL="https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2020/09/poverty-rates-for-blacks-and-hispanics-reached-historic-lows-in-2019.html"]poverty[/URL], stress, nutrition quality, etc. as they affected differently individuals of various genetic lineages over decades.[/QUOTE]

"Various genetic lineages?" Please specify.

Also, please explain how "affected differently" is based on genetics, rather than, say, discriminatory human actions or social policies.

We are in exciting times.
There is not enough vaccine to go around yet.
Make the best of it

[URL="https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/major-coronavirus-variant-found-pets-first-time?fbclid=IwAR1M-VVP2I7o3InGYqEVTd6vR1J-NFSn18u6Xk10XGhhophGgqPbFc4q4hU"]Major coronavirus variant found in pets for first time.[/URL]

This was probably inevitable.

One prediction coming from the "economy is more important than peoples' lives" crowd was that economic hardship from the public-health measures taken to mitigate the spread of COVID-19 would have people committing suicide in droves.

Or not...

[url=https://apnews.com/article/pandemics-suicide-prevention-coronavirus-pandemic-d8d9168403baa6660e5125c040b2ae81]US suicides dropped last year, defying pandemic expectations[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) - The number of U.S. suicides fell nearly 6% last year amid the coronavirus pandemic - the largest annual decline in at least four decades, according to preliminary government data.

Death certificates are still coming in and the count could rise. But officials expect a substantial decline will endure, despite worries that COVID-19 could lead to more suicides.[/quote]

Finished the most important assignment for the real life of this year. I'll stay home for 2 more weeks as what the health experts suggested, then I'll be totally free.

[QUOTE=tuckerkao;575604]Finished the most important assignment for the real life of this year. I'll stay home for 2 more weeks as what the health experts suggested, then I'll be totally free.[/QUOTE]

Well done! Don't forget to log yourself in this thread:

[URL="https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=26332&page=18"]https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=26332&page=18[/URL]

Thanks to the Covid lockdowns, lots of jobs won't be back until at least the end of this year. I believe the society should be fully reopened as soon as half of the Americans are vaccinated and those who already did should be granted the freedom after 2 more weeks.

If people work in the music industry, they cannot have the concerts packed with the crowds, what can they do, not something I can choose? My boss would just tell me to hopefully come back next year if the economy improves. Perhaps UncWilly understands why I have the free time to test all these exponents.

[QUOTE=mathwiz;575795]That's fortunate, since you're not going to guess the correct exponent![/QUOTE]
1 in 1 million of chance, not very likely, but it's not absolutely impossible. Every participant is guessing like the lottery ticket buyers, that's for sure.

[color=darkred]Moved from "Getting others to do the work on exponents I like (was: Trial Factoring Progress)"[/color]

[QUOTE=tuckerkao;575797]If people work in the music industry, they cannot have the concerts packed with the crowds, what can they do, not something I can choose?[/quote]On lie concerts have been a thing. Also, releasing special versions of songs has made quite a few artists money.
[quote]1 in 1 million of chance, not very likely, but it's not absolutely impossible. Every participant is guessing like the lottery ticket buyers, that's for sure.[/QUOTE]The odds of dying in the USoA from COVID are about 1 in 573. :Alfred E. Newman:

[color=darkred]Moved from "Getting others to do the work on exponents I like (was: Trial Factoring Progress)"[/color]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;575800]On lie concerts have been a thing. Also, releasing special versions of songs has made quite a few artists money.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, some U.S. states like Texas and Florida have reopened, but not all. Concerts of 20,000+ people in the same stadium, not that I aware of. Small gatherings of 40 people, it's legal.

That's only if they are famous enough and already have huge amount of audience that they can still keep busy even in the virtual mode. Many live concerts were rescheduled for the later dates. A daughter of my neighbor who used to sing across several local cities, no longer hosts any live events now. Also the concerts have not only been about the artists and the performers, Many others have been preparing the setups of the live events. Interior decorations and variations are very important for the live stages, but not as much virtually.

It's all about the job opportunities. Not everyone is on the top, at least not me. The top 1% will always do well no matter what(unless World War III), it's the bottom 50% of the society that lives from paycheck to paycheck being hurt the most by the pandemic.

Justin Bieber is performing live concerts with the limited capacities in several states only since recently but still not in mine, I don't seek works outside my local areas anyway.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;575800]The odds of dying in the USoA from COVID are about 1 in 573. :Alfred E. Newman:[/QUOTE]
How about the death rates including the suicides and other mental health issues because of Covid-19?

[color=darkred]Moved from "Getting others to do the work on exponents I like (was: Trial Factoring Progress)"[/color]

[QUOTE=tuckerkao;575802]
How about the death rates including the suicides and other mental health issues because of Covid-19?[/QUOTE]
Suicide rate is down from a normal year. The "we're in this together" group-fight proved stronger than despondency during 2020.

[color=darkred]Moved from "Getting others to do the work on exponents I like (was: Trial Factoring Progress)"[/color]

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;575807]Suicide rate is down from a normal year. The "we're in this together" group-fight proved stronger than despondency during 2020.[/QUOTE]Right on the head. Link to news story provided in [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=575527&postcount=1338]this post[/url]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/world-news-europe-england-coronavirus-pandemic-united-nations-28008ef665003ebf11c981ed330c5370]The Latest: US suggests 'pause' J&J shots over clot reports[/url][quote]The U.S. is recommending a "pause" in administration of the single-dose Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine to investigate reports of potentially dangerous blood clots.

In a joint statement Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Food and Drug Administration said they were investigating clots in six women that occurred in the days after vaccination. The clots were observed along with reduced platelet counts - making the usual treatment for blood clots, the blood thinner heparin, potentially "dangerous."[/quote]I don't know how the platelet counts were made in the present instance, but I do know that in years past, the count involved the use of a "cuvette" (like a test tube but with a square cross-section). With some people, using a plastic cuvette resulted in an erroneous finding of an abnormally low platelet count. When the test was redone using a glass cuvette, the platelet count would be normal.

Regarding the blood clots from the Astra-Zeneca vaccine a Danish professor thinks it might be due to poorly educated people giving the vaccine.

[url]https://www.berlingske.dk/nyheder/dansk-professor-forkert-vaccineteknik-kan-udloese-blodpropper[/url] (in Danish)

[QUOTE]Corona vaccines must be injected deep into the muscle, it is called intramuscularly. This means that the skin must first be stretched out before the needle is inserted, which is also stated in the Danish Health and Medicines Authority's guidelines. To make sure that the needle does not hit the blood vessels or damage them, you should pull the plunger back a little to see if there is blood. If this happens try to another location.

However, Niels Høiby has been able to state that this does not always happen. The fact that citizens' skin has instead, for example, been squeezed between the index finger and thumb before the vaccination, which in extremely rare cases can have fatal consequences.

‘It may mean that some of the vaccine may go straight into the blood instead, if the needle has damaged the blood vessels, and from there on to the heart and lungs. And in the worst case, it can cause such a violent inflammatory reaction that it can cause several small blood clots in, among other things, the lungs, which is what we have seen, "says Niels Høiby, who has also been contacted by several nurses and general practitioners with same wonder about the vaccine technique. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ATH;575830]Regarding the blood clots from the Astra-Zeneca vaccine a Danish professor thinks it might be due to poorly educated people giving the vaccine.

[url]https://www.berlingske.dk/nyheder/dansk-professor-forkert-vaccineteknik-kan-udloese-blodpropper[/url] (in Danish)[/QUOTE]Given the rush to get shots in arms, having some inadequately trained vaccinators seems reasonably likely.

Platelets are a major factor in forming blood clots, so it made me wonder how someone with a low level of platelets was having a problem with blood clots.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;575837]
Platelets are a major factor in forming blood clots, so it made me wonder how someone with a low level of platelets was having a problem with blood clots.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, it does not compute. Blood-thinners usually cause bleeding which is the opposite of a blood-clot. They are generally given to people at risk of getting blood-clots. it is uncharacteristic of them to be associated with increased instances of blood-clots.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-public-health-race-and-ethnicity-health-coronavirus-pandemic-585b21bb229c0049f2dec94927cc9789]Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus[/url][quote]Rocker Ted Nugent is revealing he was in agony after testing positive for coronavirus — months after he said the virus was “not a real pandemic.”

"I thought I was dying," Nugent says in a Facebook live video posted Monday. "I literally could hardly crawl out of bed the last few days," adding: "So I was officially tested positive for COVID-19 today."

In the video shot at his Michigan ranch, the "Cat Scratch Fever" singer repeatedly uses racist slurs to refer to COVID-19 and reiterates his previous stance that he wouldn't be getting the vaccine because he claims wrongly that "nobody knows what’s in it."
<snip>[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;576262]Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus[/QUOTE]

Evolution in action.

[QUOTE=chalsall;576275][QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;576262]Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus[/QUOTE]Evolution in action.[/QUOTE]I don't understand. In the second place, it doesn't look like he's going to die from it. In the first place, he's already fathered kids - by his first wife, by his second wife, and a bunch by women he wasn't married to.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;576278]I don't understand.[/QUOTE]

For this particular data point, no. Evolution isn't aided. But in the aggregate, it is (read: some "non-believers" *will* be removed from the pool).

Keep in your model that most males can procreate up to shortly after they stop converting oxygen into carbon dioxide. So for that half of the population, there /is/ a functional effect in reduced quantity.

Meant to be funny, and macabre, at the same time... :chalsall:

Shortly AFTER?! [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition[/url]

[QUOTE=kriesel;576294]Shortly AFTER?![/QUOTE]

Sure. Longer if cryogenics is brought to bear...

[QUOTE=chalsall;576284]For this particular data point, no. Evolution isn't aided. But in the aggregate, it is (read: some "non-believers" *will* be removed from the pool).[/quote]Not enough...[quote]Meant to be funny, and macabre, at the same time... :chalsall:[/QUOTE]Oh, I thought it was funnier than all get-out, a COVID denier getting it. Not to mention ironic.

It seems R's are quite averse to getting vaccinated, despite their Orange God pushing "Operation Warp Speed." Of course, the Orange God was also busily talking out of the other side of his mouth, denying the seriousness of the pandemic, denying the science, bashing Dr, Fauci, etc. I wonder how many R's are familiar with the name Mary Mallon.

But who has ever heard of Typhoid Tony? [url]https://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-typhoid-mary[/url]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;576262][url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-public-health-race-and-ethnicity-health-coronavirus-pandemic-585b21bb229c0049f2dec94927cc9789]Ted Nugent, who once dismissed COVID-19, sickened by virus[/url][/QUOTE]Irony. Irony of ironies, all is irony sayeth :paul: