Back to the topic at hand...

I am sure some here remember the 2000 POTUS election. This was the "hanging chad" vote in one county in South Florida. It is not one county now, it is multiple states. I see the problem as mail-in ballots. Postal workers are crawling around on floors and looking behind cabinets searching for misplaced mail-in's.

Why? To delay the results. The postal-service appears to have been rigged to fail at the most critical time. All those workers did the best they could do with what they had to work with.

So, the polls in the U.S. began closing in the east at 2200 GMT. Some states in this area extended voting for an hour, but not all. Go west across the country and the same applied, each in their own time zones. Now, it is nearly 1600 GMT in the east. 18 hours and no definitive results. In 2000, we waited until early January, IIRC. I feel this may not end anytime soon.

Some states do not start counting absentee ballots until after the polls close while others start before election day. That is the main reason we don't have a completed count yet.

There are rumbles that Trump is extremely unhappy that absentee ballots could cost him the election. Apparently he is already planning to go to the Supreme Court to have absentee ballots tossed out, especially those not counted by midnight last night.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;562176]As to ID spoofing, I don't run the phone system. I'm not qualified to say how to fix it.[/QUOTE]

It's a non-trivial problem... Much like the Internet, the design of the PSTN is largely "trust-based".

This was fine when only large Telcos were attached to the network. Nowadays, I can spend $25 USD a month for a "SIP Trunk", and I can set my Caller ID (CID) to be anything I want.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;562139][I]Well, they'll spam you when you are on the phone
They'll spam you when you get your mail at home
They'll spam you and then say you are brave
They'll spam you when you are set down in your grave
But I would not feel in such a jam
Everybody must get spammed.[/I]

-- With apologies to Bob Dylan[/QUOTE]
Well put. Bob can get over it. :davar55:

Topical from The Wieners Circle in Chicago.

[QUOTE=rogue;562197]Some states do not start counting absentee ballots until after the polls close while others start before election day. That is the main reason we don't have a completed count yet.

There are rumbles that Trump is extremely unhappy that absentee ballots could cost him the election. Apparently he is already planning to go to the Supreme Court to have absentee ballots tossed out, especially those not counted by midnight last night.[/QUOTE]The possibility that the US Supreme Court will overrule State protections of the right to vote is very real. State protections of voting rights are generally greater than federal protections. And States are, by and large, in charge of running their own elections. Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution of the United States says[quote]The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations.[/quote]The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled, under the Pennsylvania State Constitution, that in this election, under the "free and equal" clause of the Pennsylvania State Constitution, mail-in ballots postmarked by Election Day should be counted. Since States are by and large allowed to determine their own election procedures, that would seem to have been the end of it. But R's challenged, on the grounds that the Pennsylvania courts had usurped legislative power. The US Supreme Court declined to hear it. But only on a 4-4 tie vote. Now there are nine Justices. Stay tuned.

Current front page of The Independent US version
 

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/us[/URL]

I will just throw something out here so somebody correct me if I am wrong:

This country was founded on states-rights. Each had to decide whether to fight the British during the Revolutionary War, or not. This same hot-topic came up again in the years leading up to The Civil War. By then, there was a Federal Government to contend with. If there had been no succession of the southern states, could the powers-that-be in Washington have forced the southern states to end slavery? I do not think so.

So, here we are in 2020. A sitting POTUS is challenging the vote counting in several states. Law suits have been filed. If states-rights are to honored then said POTUS cannot force any state to stop counts or do recounts. Some have sections in their state constitutions which allow recounts just by asking. Others charge a hefty fee.

Also, said POTUS is trying to prevent the completion of first-time counts in two states that I am aware of. Again, if states-rights are to be honored, this cannot be allowed to happen.

Bottom line: If the states transact the business at hand in a transparent and legal way, no one should prevent, or attempt to prevent, them from doing so.

[QUOTE=storm5510;562314]Bottom line: If the states transact the business at hand in a transparent and legal way, no one should prevent, or attempt to prevent, them from doing so.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Tommy Jeff, et al"]The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.[/QUOTE]
Looks very "States Rights" to me.

[QUOTE="Jimmy Mad and posse"]The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=storm5510;562314]I will just throw something out here so somebody correct me if I am wrong:

This country was founded on states-rights. Each had to decide whether to fight the British during the Revolutionary War, or not. This same hot-topic came up again in the years leading up to The Civil War. By then, there was a Federal Government to contend with. If there had been no succession of the southern states, could the powers-that-be in Washington have forced the southern states to end slavery? I do not think so.

So, here we are in 2020. A sitting POTUS is challenging the vote counting in several states. Law suits have been filed. If states-rights are to honored then said POTUS cannot force any state to stop counts or do recounts. Some have sections in their state constitutions which allow recounts just by asking. Others charge a hefty fee.

Also, said POTUS is trying to prevent the completion of first-time counts in two states that I am aware of. Again, if states-rights are to be honored, this cannot be allowed to happen.

Bottom line: If the states transact the business at hand in a transparent and legal way, no one should prevent, or attempt to prevent, them from doing so.[/QUOTE]

What you miss is that SCOTUS has claimed the same, except when it is in the interest of SCOTUS to overrule the states. With a 6-3 conservative advantage, I would not put it past SCOTUS to toss out ballots (mainly Biden ballots) in some states to ensure a Trump victory in them. SCOTUS seems to support the POTUS contention that there is massive voter fraud in favor of the Democrats even though there has been not proof of such fraud.

Right now conservative media is tossing out numerous conspiracy theories (aided by the POTUS and Fox News) about voter fraud and far too many conservatives are believing it without question.

So combine what SCOTUS could do along with the conspiracy theory spreading from Fox News and you light up a powder keg.

[QUOTE=storm5510;562314]<snip>
Also, said POTUS is trying to prevent the completion of first-time counts in two states that I am aware of. Again, if states-rights are to be honored, this cannot be allowed to happen.[/QUOTE]State sovereignty is indeed part of the US system of government. The way elections are run is a vase in point. The Constitution explicitly leaves it to the individual States, but gives Congress the power to regulate them per Article I, Section 4 or the Constitution of the United States. (The 1965 Voting Rights Act is an example of a federal law regulating the way states run elections.) So you're right, it's generally up to the individual states to run their own elections. For the federal courts to be interfering in state election procedures, apart from alleged violations of federal oversight legislation, is unusual. The usually-unanswerable objection is, "What Federal issue?"

BTW I saw on the news that R-instigated legal actions in Michigan ad Georgia had already been dismissed.

I will point out that "States' Rights" was not-very-subtle code for slavery, and, after Reconstruction ended, "Jim Crow" and racial segregation.

The US Civil War was substantially about slavery, but also about whether states had the right to secede from the Union. Abraham Lincoln's primary objective was to preserve the Union. He came to view the abolition of slavery as a necessary means to that end. In his Second Inaugural Address he said,[quote]...The Almighty has his own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"[/quote]