[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;542782]-- [u]Respectfully Quoted: [i]A Dictionary of Quotations[/i][/u] By James H. Billington, Library of Congress[/QUOTE]Yup.

A decision not to do something is nevertheless a decision.

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;542777]-your obviously biased centrist correspondent / Schwarzenegger Republican.[/QUOTE]From a European perspective, only BS amongst the mainstream candidates is [B]not [/B]right-wing. His policies might perhaps best be described as social-democratic, implying he is towards the rightmost edge of socialism and very far indeed from the left-wing communist ideology.

In British, specifically Thatcherite, terminology, Biden would perhaps be described as a "wet" Tory. IMO.

The reason why I invoked game theory is because this is a repeated game. Every four years the left wing is asked to vote for the least worst choice and every time the least worst choice becomes worse. So the distance between the left and the Democratic nominee becomes ever larger. Also note that the last centrist to win the presidency was Bill Clinton. Gore, Kerry, H Clinton all ran on centrist platforms to ostensibly attract moderates and soft-Republicans and each and every one of them failed. Obama only won because he ran as the Hope and Change guy. Anti-Iraq war and to the left of HRC. Of course he turned out to be a corporatist. People were disappointed with him when he squandered two years of a majority in all chambers. And 2012 was a close run thing until Romney shot himself in the foot with that 47% remark.
Why then would Biden succeed?

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;542777]I don't see how Bernie-types could favor Trump over Biden; if you're far-left, don't you choose the candidate that is closer to your worldviews?

However, centrists in swing states can make decisions based on how far away from the center a candidate moves. Observing that certain positions are "pretty popular" ignores that the folks that favor those things don't have much overlap with the small slice of the voting public in the few swing states that decide this election. I have friends and family who ranked Bernie below Trump but any other major candidate above Trump, so my personal experience biases my "logic".

However, if the case is that lefties will stay home rather than vote for the (sorry for the trope) lesser of two evils, then your point could be valid; but if they don't dislike Trump vastly more than they don't care for Biden, I don't understand them. "Do what I want, or I'll take my toys and go home" seems to reduce a faction's power, rather than increase it.

-your obviously biased centrist correspondent / Schwarzenegger Republican.[/QUOTE]

I am not confident how good your read of "Bernie-types" is. Yes he had vocal support amongst leftists and progressives, the young, Latinos and Muslims. But he also had a lot of support from people who otherwise don't bother supporting candidates who they know won't change anything for them. Bernie's policies had greater support amongst Americans than any other Democratic candidate. [URL]https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/25/pete-buttigieg/polls-show-most-democrats-many-americans-back-key-/[/URL]
Yet he was personally not ranked highly enough to win the primary. Is it because he is not likeable? Or is it because he was subjected to relentless negative propaganda by the mainstream media? Do any of us remember Chris Matthews comparing his victory in NV to the German invasion of France? Or the $70 million plus of positive coverage Biden got after his SC victory? You just need to compare the response of CNN/MSNBC etc. to those two victories to see why people don't vote for Bernie even though they support his policies. Here's his campaign guy's post-mortem [URL]https://sirota.substack.com/p/the-tyranny-of-decorum[/URL]

Finally, the biggest block is the non-voters. Some of it is apathy, some knowing that their vote doesn't count and some outright vote suppression.Who is to say Bernie's supporters don't join that faction knowing how the party is institutionally biased against them? And they stay there until the party becomes more receptive to them and doesn't just take them for granted?

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;542758][url=https://apnews.com/a1bfb62e37fe34e09ff123a58a1329fa]AP Interview: Sanders says opposing Biden is 'irresponsible'[/url][/QUOTE]

An NC commenter replied thusly:

"So I’m irresponsible for refusing to vote for a viciously corrupt racist warmonger who lies casually and who is clearly suffering from progressive dementia?
Thanks, Bernie, it’s good to know where you really stand."

@Paul: I agree that your #3, Dem and swing voters staying home in droves because they don't like the allegedly-lesser-evil on offer from Team D, was key in 2016 and may very well again be this Fall. But I would not discount #1, seeing lots of feeling-berned-again Sanders supporters over on NC saying precisely that they would vote Trump just to stick it to the corrupt DNC, who "deserve another 4 years of Trump", that sort of thing. This is what I referred to as the [i]Schadenfreude[/i] demographic in 2016: Given 2 horrible options, go with the one that gets the knickers of the corrupt establishment duopoly and their MSM shills in the greater twist.

(Recall that in 2016, before Trump engineering his hostile takeover of the RNC apparatus, the R establishment hated him even more than the D one - in fact the DNC/Clintonites welcomed the idea of Trump getting the R nomination, because it would ensure HRH HRC cakewalking her way into the White House. Ah, the best-laid plans o' mice and men...)

Garo, it is great to have you back. I really appreciate your links and your views in this messy situation.

[QUOTE=garo;542794Bernie's policies had greater support amongst Americans than any other Democratic candidate. [URL]https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/25/pete-buttigieg/polls-show-most-democrats-many-americans-back-key-/[/URL]
Yet he was personally not ranked highly enough to win the primary. Is it because he is not likeable? Or is it because he was subjected to relentless negative propaganda by the mainstream media?[/QUOTE]Of course, it couldn't [i]possibly[/i] be for any other reason.

Jeremy Corbyn said [url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change]here[/url] that Labour had "won the arguments" in the last campaign and that Labour's policies were popular. Unfortunately, Labour got clobbered in the election.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;542805]Of course, it couldn't [I]possibly[/I] be for any other reason.

Jeremy Corbyn said [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change"]here[/URL] that Labour had "won the arguments" in the last campaign and that Labour's policies were popular. Unfortunately, Labour got clobbered in the election.[/QUOTE]
Corbyn was also pilloried in the press, as were Labour's policies.

Bernie was far more just ignored, erased. What coverage there was, was slanted.

In both cases, they were threats to big money, which controls the media. Hence, they had to be trashed.

[QUOTE=kladner;542807]Corbyn was also pilloried in the press, as were Labour's policies.

Bernie was far more just ignored, erased. What coverage there was, was slanted.

In both cases, they were threats to big money, which controls the media. Hence, they had to be trashed.[/QUOTE]And, of course, the voters are slavishly obedient to whatever "the mainstream media" says.
[QUOTE=ewmayer;542800]An NC commenter replied thusly:

"So I’m irresponsible for refusing to vote for a viciously corrupt racist warmonger who lies casually and who is clearly suffering from progressive dementia?
Thanks, Bernie, it’s good to know where you really stand."[/QUOTE]I'm glad to see that nobody in the [i]alternative[/i] media ever trashes good ol' Bernie. :rolleyes:

The mass media are terribly effective in their manipulations. Many people are not as attentive and informed as this group.
[QUOTE]And, of course, the voters are slavishly obedient to whatever "the mainstream media" says.[/QUOTE]Putting in loaded terms doesn't really enhance your sarcastic effect. There are more subtle ways than slavish obedience to bend public perceptions and set the narrative. This last item is where a lot of the power lies.

[QUOTE=garo;542794].....But he also had a lot of support from people who otherwise don't bother supporting candidates who they know won't change anything for them. [....]

Finally, the biggest block is the non-voters. Some of it is apathy, some knowing that their vote doesn't count and some outright vote suppression.Who is to say Bernie's supporters don't join that faction knowing how the party is institutionally biased against them? And they stay there until the party becomes more receptive to them and doesn't just take them for granted?[/QUOTE]
These two points refute my view pretty well- If the Bernie types contain lots of people who weren't previously motivated to vote, they can easily go back to not voting. My most faulty assumption is that folks who pay enough attention to pick a candidate & vote will exercise their voting privledges almost-always from then on. As Xilman also pointed out, not voting is a viable option for many people; again, my bias in my personal circle of an "I have to pick someone, else someone dumber than me is choosing my leader" voting attitude clearly doesn't apply to the general population.

I don't often wade into soapbox threads- thanks to those who addressed my thoughts in the gentle ways they did. Edit- Garo, welcome back, sir!