So in game theory terms you are saying the threat is not credible? It's not swing state voters in general but lefties and independents that I am talking of. Nobody thought Clinton would lose either. And enthusiasm for Biden is pretty low. I would urge his campaign to embrace those positions as they are pretty popular. The problem is that he doesn't have a ground game and he needs Bernie's troops if he wants to win comfortably.

[QUOTE=garo;542678]The problem is that he doesn't have a ground game and he needs Bernie's troops if he wants to win comfortably.[/QUOTE]So instead of astroturfing, he needs to get the BS crew to lay sod.

[QUOTE=garo;542678]So in game theory terms you are saying the threat is not credible? It's not swing state voters in general but lefties and independents that I am talking of. Nobody thought Clinton would lose either. And enthusiasm for Biden is pretty low. I would urge his campaign to embrace those positions as they are pretty popular. The problem is that he doesn't have a ground game and he needs Bernie's troops if he wants to win comfortably.[/QUOTE]

Good Ol' Joe is aiming for the middle. He believes that he has more to gain by pandering to the middle than to the left and is hoping that the dislike of Trump is so strong that the Sanders supporters that dislike him will vote for him anyways because they hate Trump even more.

Ignoring the Left is a recipe for failure, which describes the Biden selection in general for me. This has been Hilary 2.0 from the outset, and the results are likely to be the same. :davieddy:

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;542682]So instead of astroturfing, he needs to get the BS crew to lay sod.[/QUOTE]

I thought "the BS crew" was already working for the current occupant of the White House.

Anyone so employed has the exciting prospect of becoming a member of the COWH's Scapegoat of the Week Club(*). I understand a number of WH staffers have filed a class-action suit against WHO for delaying their entry into the Club.

(*) "Week" may be changed to "Day," "Hour," "Minute," or "Second" as needed.

[url=https://apnews.com/a1bfb62e37fe34e09ff123a58a1329fa]AP Interview: Sanders says opposing Biden is 'irresponsible'[/url][quote]Sanders said his supporters have a simple choice now that Biden has emerged as the presumptive nominee: "Do we be as active as we can in electing Joe Biden and doing everything we can to move Joe and his campaign in a more progressive direction? Or do we choose to sit it out and allow the most dangerous president in modern American history to get reelected?"

He continued: "I believe that it's irresponsible for anybody to say, 'Well, I disagree with Joe Biden -- I disagree with Joe Biden! -- and therefore I'm not going to be involved.'"

Sanders said he would not actively campaign or spend money on advertising in the primary contests that are still on the calendar in the coming months. But he still encouraged Democrats in those states to vote for him, hoping to amass as many delegates as possible for leverage to shape the party platform and the direction of Biden's campaign.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;542757]I thought "the BS crew" was already working for the current occupant of the White House.[/QUOTE]Bernie Sanders has White House insiders? [B]This [I]is[/I] news.[/B]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;542763]Bernie Sanders has White House insiders? [B]This [I]is[/I] news.[/B][/QUOTE]

When you hear "BS", Bernie Sanders is [B]not[/B] the first thing that comes to mind (in fact, when I first read your post, it took me a moment before I realized what you meant). Just sayin'.

[QUOTE=garo;542678]So in game theory terms you are saying the threat is not credible? It's not swing state voters in general but lefties and independents that I am talking of. Nobody thought Clinton would lose either. And enthusiasm for Biden is pretty low. I would urge his campaign to embrace those positions as they are pretty popular. The problem is that he doesn't have a ground game and he needs Bernie's troops if he wants to win comfortably.[/QUOTE]

I don't see how Bernie-types could favor Trump over Biden; if you're far-left, don't you choose the candidate that is closer to your worldviews?

However, centrists in swing states can make decisions based on how far away from the center a candidate moves. Observing that certain positions are "pretty popular" ignores that the folks that favor those things don't have much overlap with the small slice of the voting public in the few swing states that decide this election. I have friends and family who ranked Bernie below Trump but any other major candidate above Trump, so my personal experience biases my "logic".

However, if the case is that lefties will stay home rather than vote for the (sorry for the trope) lesser of two evils, then your point could be valid; but if they don't dislike Trump vastly more than they don't care for Biden, I don't understand them. "Do what I want, or I'll take my toys and go home" seems to reduce a faction's power, rather than increase it.

-your obviously biased centrist correspondent / Schwarzenegger Republican.

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;542777]I don't see how Bernie-types could favor Trump over Biden; if you're far-left, don't you choose the candidate that is closer to your worldviews?[/QUOTE]Indirect effects.

Assume that I am a BS supporter. (In reality, I'm disenfranchised but please go along with me.) I have three choices:
[LIST=1][*]Vote Trump[*]Vote Biden because he's the next best thing.[*]Don't vote because I do not support Biden's policies.[/LIST]
The probability of the first occurring is assumed to be somewhere between nil and negligible in this model.

If almost all people like me make the third choice there is an increased probability of Trump being re-elected over the case where almost all make the second choice.

[QUOTE=xilman;542779]Indirect effects.

Assume that I am a BS supporter. (In reality, I'm disenfranchised but please go along with me.) I have three choices:
[LIST=1][*]Vote Trump[*]Vote Biden because he's the next best thing.[*]Don't vote because I do not support Biden's policies.[/LIST]
The probability of the first occurring is assumed to be somewhere between nil and negligible in this model.

If almost all people like me make the third choice there is an increased probability of Trump being re-elected over the case where almost all make the second choice.[/QUOTE]
[quote][quote]Somewhere deep down we know that in the final analysis we [i]do[/i] decide things and that even our decisions to let someone else decide are really [i]our[/i] decisions, however pusillanimous.[/quote]Harvey G. Cox, [u]On Not Leaving It to the Snake[/u], p. viii (1967)

Quoted as "Not to decide is to decide" in [u]Peter's Quotations[/u] by Lawrence J. Peter, p. 297 (1977)[/quote]

-- [u]Respectfully Quoted: [i]A Dictionary of Quotations[/i][/u] By James H. Billington, Library of Congress