ET_ wants a new PC...
 

...but before that, I ask: is it safe to go for a Skylake? How troublesome will the flashing of the new BIOS be? As I buy a motherboard in Italy, the odds to get an old BIOS to update are quite high...

Or should we wait for the next generation of Intel processors?

Once this question will be answered, we'll go further with the main question.

And yes, I know
Luigi

I'm personally waiting for AMD Zen, which is due to be released late this year. It's a new architecture and it may shake things up a bit.

If I couldn't wait, I'd go with Haswell-E and take advantage of the four DDR4 memory channels.

Depends on how much you want to spend. If you have enough money and want a really fast computer you could go for a Broadwell-E which should arrive sometimes soon. It just says 2016, so no news about precisely when, but Skylake-E will not be until 2017 at least.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors[/url]
If those prices are somewhat accurate $350 sounds like a pretty good deal for 6 cores, 15 MB L3 cache and quad channel DDR4.

[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=20736[/url]


You could also go for a "normal" Broadwell Core i7 5775C or Core i5 5675C:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwell_(microarchitecture[/url])

[QUOTE=ET_;423788]...but before that, I ask: is it safe to go for a Skylake? How troublesome will the flashing of the new BIOS be? [/QUOTE]

Probably safe, but we are not sure. Intel has not given details on the Skylake bug, so we do not know for sure that current Skylake results are correct.

Skylake users are also having random freezes but these seem to happen at idle, a state GIMPS users don't run into.

I've never had a problem flashing BIOS.

[QUOTE=Prime95;423831]I've never had a problem flashing BIOS.[/QUOTE]We ran into an issue once where the BIOS needed flashed to support the CPU we bought with the motherboard!

We ended up having to RMA the motherboard for one with a newer BIOS already "installed".

:mike:

[QUOTE=ET_;423788]...but before that, I ask: is it safe to go for a Skylake? [/QUOTE]

My i5-6500 has had no problems.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;423797]I'm personally waiting for AMD Zen, which is due to be released late this year. It's a new architecture and it may shake things up a bit.

If I couldn't wait, I'd go with Haswell-E and take advantage of the four DDR4 memory channels.[/QUOTE]
I would love to see some real competition in the CPU market.
[URL="http://wccftech.com/amd-am4-motherboards-launch-q2-2016-for-bristol-ridge-apus/"]This article[/URL] seems to be relying on a fair number of unexplained terms, but I'm still doing searches for more information. Thanks, Mark, for calling attention to it. :smile:

[QUOTE=ATH;423808]Depends on how much you want to spend. If you have enough money and want a really fast computer you could go for a Broadwell-E which should arrive sometimes soon. It just says 2016, so no news about precisely when, but Skylake-E will not be until 2017 at least.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors[/url]
If those prices are somewhat accurate $350 sounds like a pretty good deal for 6 cores, 15 MB L3 cache and quad channel DDR4.

[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=20736[/url]


You could also go for a "normal" Broadwell Core i7 5775C or Core i5 5675C:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwell_(microarchitecture[/url])[/QUOTE]

Thank you Andreas. But I heard that Intel is going todrstically shorten the life of Broadwell to enhance Skylake and future generation processors. I'd end up having again an "old generation" processor.

As for the price, the Skylake 6700X (the overclockable one) is rated $430 on Newegg site...

Finally, the AVX512 instruction set may prove very useful for GIMPS.

Still confused :loco:

To help people help me... :smile:

What I need is a new generation PC setup to help me with my number-crunching projects: the computer should have fast memory, at least 4 cores (more would be happily accepted), a ssd card to load Linux root partition and a 2TB fast SATA HDD for the /home partition. The processor should be as fast as possible having an air cooler (Noctua?), and 32 GB of RAM are needed. The motherboard should have a socket to correctly plug in the processor, show high performances, accept the fast RAM, share at least a 3.0 USB hub, one network card at 1GB.

I already have a new Nvidia GTX980 and a working PSU Corsair HX750, plus the SATA BD-rom.
I also plan to buy a new case like the Corsair Obsidian 450D.

[COLOR="Red"]Open questions:[/COLOR][LIST=1][*]How should I choose the RAM? DDR3? DDR4? 2 or 4 banks? What speed?[*]I plan to use the GTX980 for number crunching: would a video card integrarted to the mainboard be of any help letting the GTX run only on CUDA programs?[*]What processor for a desktop environment?[*]What cooler?[*]What ssd?[*]What hdd?[*]What did I forget? :rolleyes:[/LIST]
Thank you for sharing your ideas with me :smile:

Check out second hand custom builds that you can find and negotiate for.
At least 64 G memory expandable to 128. DDR3 OK, DDR4 better.
Asus P9X79 or X99-E-WS to also handle Xeon processor.
Cooling (look in the hardware thread regarding this topic)..keep your GPU cool.
Minimize your power draw, overclock everywhere possible and be creative in
approaching mini-supercomputer capability on a budget. COTS, FPGA's, expanders...
and other add-ons are to be considered for specialty computing.

Profile the operating system(s) and software you intend to use beforehand,
a lean Arch machine?, a solid compiler and technical reference manuals are to be considered.
Above all, understand what you want to accomplish theoretically and approach it with the best
possible tools within your means...then build better tools with the equipment you have.

Them's is my suggestions.

Check out my dream build thread:

[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=20795[/url]

For me, the most cost effective solution is Skylake, overclocking memory only and no GPU. I'll be going that route because I think only DDR4 can reliably and cost effectively overclock to 3000+. In Europe, where electricity is probably more expensive than the U.S., it is even more important to go with a power-efficient system.

Thank you jwaltos.

The fact is that I want to build a system that will last for years 2-3 at least), so I'm not all that interested on the second hand market.

Also, I think I would need a Z170 - X99 Intel chipset on the motherboard to fully take advantage of the new generation processors.

Finally, as the system should last 3 years, I'm not prone to overclocking.

Anywaay, your ideas will be taken into consideration for a different project, thank you again.

:et_:

[QUOTE=Prime95;423897]Check out my dream build thread:

[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=20795[/url]

For me, the most cost effective solution is Skylake, overclocking memory only and no GPU. I'll be going that route because I think only DDR4 can reliably and cost effectively overclock to 3000+. In Europe, where electricity is probably more expensive than the U.S., it is even more important to go with a power-efficient system.[/QUOTE]

Thank you George, I wsa following your post when I decided to build a new PC for my birthday :smile:

I will definitely go for 32 GB of DDR4 RAM. I guess I should take the DDR4-3200. Should I opt for 2x16GB or 4x8GB?

[QUOTE=ET_;423899]I will definitely go for 32 GB of DDR4 RAM. I guess I should take the DDR4-3200. Should I opt for 2x16GB or 4x8GB?[/QUOTE]

If you go Skylake, I would go 2x16GB so you can populate the other slots later. Using 2 sticks usually allows higher overclocks than with 4.

If you go Haswell-E, I would go 4x8GB to use all 4 memory channels.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;423907]If you go Skylake, I would go 2x16GB so you can populate the other slots later. Using 2 sticks usually allows higher overclocks than with 4.

If you go Haswell-E, I would go 4x8GB to use all 4 memory channels.[/QUOTE]

Do you mean that Haswell-E has quad-channel memory while Skylake has not? :loco: <-- that's me trying to understand...

The current Skylake models does not have AVX512, you would have to wait for Xeon Skylake in 2017 or maybe Skylake-E?

[QUOTE=ET_;423860]Thank you Andreas. But I heard that Intel is going todrstically shorten the life of Broadwell to enhance Skylake and future generation processors. I'd end up having again an "old generation" processor.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what the "generation" matters now that there is no AVX512 in Skylake. Broadwell-E with 6, 8 or 10 cores will definitely be faster than Skylake 6700K 4 cores, specially with quad channel RAM vs Skylake's dual channel. Even Haswell-E with 6 or 8 cores is probably faster.

The Extreme edition of each generation lasts much longer than the "normal" version. People with Sandy Bridge-E had no real reason to upgrade to Ivy Bridge or Haswell. Not until Haswell-E.

[QUOTE=ATH;423910]The current Skylake models does not have AVX512, you would have to wait for Xeon Skylake in 2017 or maybe Skylake-E?



I'm not sure what the "generation" matters now that there is no AVX512 in Skylake. Broadwell-E with 6, 8 or 10 cores will definitely be faster than Skylake 6700K 4 cores, specially with quad channel RAM vs Skylake's dual channel. Even Haswell-E with 6 or 8 cores is probably faster.

The Extreme edition of each generation lasts much longer than the "normal" version. People with Sandy Bridge-E had no real reason to upgrade to Ivy Bridge or Haswell. Not until Haswell-E.[/QUOTE]

Here is a good reason to ask here :smle:

Now I need a comparison table with prices (of processsor+MB) versus efficiency.
From what I see, the Haswell-E has a price that's 2.5x of Skylake, and I suppose that also motherboard with LGA2011 socket cost more than those with LGA1151.

But Haswell-E is not 2.5x more efficient than Skylake.

Where did I go wrong? :confused2: :confused:

There are 3 different Haswell-E: 5820K, 5930K and 5960X:

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture[/URL])
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors[/URL] (search for "Haswell-E")
It says release price \$389 , \$583 and \$999. You can better check the actual price in the stores you have near you or that you want to buy from.

Of course the 5960X is not 2.5 times faster than 5820K or the 6700K. You pay exponentially for the last bit of power. It always depends on funds and how fast you want/need.

[url]http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html[/url]

5960X: 15,978
5930K. 13,629
5820K: 13,000
6700K: 11,012

No idea if this is with quad channel RAM on the Haswell-E or not.

[QUOTE=ET_;423909]Do you mean that Haswell-E has quad-channel memory while Skylake has not? :loco: <-- that's me trying to understand...[/QUOTE]

Yes.

Haswell-E has quad channel. Skylake has dual channel (even if there are four slots).

[QUOTE=ET_;423909]Do you mean that Haswell-E has quad-channel memory while Skylake has not? :loco: <-- that's me trying to understand...[/QUOTE]

You understand correctly. But. I'll bet you can build two Skylake systems for the price of one Haswell-E system.

There is no right answer to your computer quest. One Haswell-E system will definitely be more powerful than any Skylake system you can build. Only you can decide if that is worth the substantial extra cost.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;423919]Yes.

Haswell-E has quad channel. Skylake has dual channel (even if there are four slots).[/QUOTE]

Quad channel rocks. :smile:

I ran across this just now when digging for actual differences in things (ddr3 vs ddr4 and dual vs quad):
[URL="http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2015/september/ddr3_vs_ddr4_generational"]http://www.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2015/september/ddr3_vs_ddr4_generational[/URL]

My only DDR4 system is quad channel @ 2133, so even though I wouldn't mind having faster RAM (the server doesn't support more than that) it didn't seem like it makes as big a difference as simply having quad instead of dual channel. By far.

You could imagine what it would look like when the Skylake-E stuff rolls out with quad channel. I think that's when I'd see servers with faster DDR4 module support. As it is, Haswell-E maxes out at 2133.

Looks like Broadwell-E bumps DDR4 up to 2400 MHz. I didn't see any reliable info on what the speeds will be for Skylake-E... still too far out to predict.

[QUOTE=Mark Rose;423919]Yes.

Haswell-E has quad channel. Skylake has dual channel ([STRIKE]even if[/STRIKE] [U]because[/U] there are four slots).[/QUOTE]
Fixed it for you. Four channels means 8 slots. DDR4 is a bit different.

Luigi: If you need the best price/performance compromise, Skylake is the way to go.
If you don't mind paying more, but having a really performant top computer, then Haswell-E is the way to go.

Thinking "for the future" is not the right way to go now, like when you said "I will end up again having an old CPU", that is not true. The actual skylakes and the future skylakes will have different features, like more memory bandwidth, etc, which means more pins, a different socket, you don't suppose that the "big skylake" will stay on 1151 pins socket, do you? Look how other older architectures evolved, not only intel, but also nvidia, etc. The "big chip" come later, when the lessons are learned, and it is not compatible with your old mobo.

So, you have to chose between "ending up again with an old Hasswell-E CPU" and "ending up again with an old Skylake CPU".

Don't ask me which one I would chose, money aside. Of course, as George said, only you can decide if it worth the additional cost.

Here we go for the second round...
[COLOR="Red"]Open questions:[/COLOR][LIST=1][*]How should I choose the RAM? [COLOR="Green"]2x16GB DDR4-3200 dual channel, [COLOR="DarkOrange"]Kingston or Corsair ?[/COLOR][/COLOR][*]MB ASRock Z170M-Pro4s [COLOR="DarkOrange"]is a valid choice? [/COLOR]I always had ASUS or Gigabyte.[*]I plan to use the GTX980 for number crunching: would a video card integrarted to the mainboard be of any help letting the GTX run only on CUDA programs? [COLOR="Green"]MB with integrated video card.[/COLOR][*]What processor for a desktop environment? [COLOR="Green"]Skylake 6700K @ 4.0 GHz.[/COLOR][*]What cooler? [COLOR="DarkOrange"]What about the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO?[/COLOR][*]What ssd? [COLOR="Green"]Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB.[/COLOR][*]What HDD? [COLOR="Green"]Right now, I only know it should be SATA 2TB 7200 rpm. [COLOR="DarkOrange"]Ideas on the producers?[/COLOR][/COLOR][/LIST]
Thank you for sharing your ideas with me :smile:

[QUOTE=Madpoo;423938]You could imagine what it would look like when the Skylake-E stuff rolls out with quad channel. I think that's when I'd see servers with faster DDR4 module support. As it is, Haswell-E maxes out at 2133.[/quote]

The rumour is that Skylake Xeon (and hence Skylake-E) will roll out with six-channel.

[QUOTE=fivemack;423984]The rumour is that Skylake Xeon (and hence Skylake-E) will roll out with six-channel.[/QUOTE]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :smile:

I need to start saving up for it.

[OT]As long as one is dreaming, this little thing, which showed up in my email, has a lot going for it: [URL="http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/89858-gigabyte-mw70-3s0/"]MW70-3S0[/URL] :w00t:
I have no clue as to the cost. :shock: [/OT]

[QUOTE=kladner;423996][OT]As long as one is dreaming, this little thing, which showed up in my email, has a lot going for it: [URL="http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/89858-gigabyte-mw70-3s0/"]MW70-3S0[/URL] :w00t:
I have no clue as to the cost. :shock: [/OT][/QUOTE]

The availability is still a bit sparse at the time of writing, but that should change very soon as the board is being rolled out to the different markets. The MSRP for the UK is set to £430 and the US price is set to $585.

[URL="http://www.eteknix.com/gigabyte-mw70-3s0-intel-c612-dual-cpu-workstation-motherboard-review_/12/"]MW70-3S0[/URL]

Adding a couple of E5-2699 v3 18 physical cores processors for $7,600

[QUOTE=ET_;424000]The availability is still a bit sparse at the time of writing, but that should change very soon as the board is being rolled out to the different markets. The MSRP for the UK is set to £430 and the US price is set to $585.

[URL="http://www.eteknix.com/gigabyte-mw70-3s0-intel-c612-dual-cpu-workstation-motherboard-review_/12/"]MW70-3S0[/URL]

Adding a couple of E5-2699 v3 18 physical cores processors for $7,600[/QUOTE]

The dual E5-26xx v3 systems are like the ones that I have (just one of them...waaahhh) and AirSquirrels.

Of course mine is a dual 14-core and I think AirSquirrels has a dual 16-core. You pay a HUGE premium for the CPUs with the most cores, but if you look at clock speeds you can probably swing a good deal by figuring out the cost versus cores*GHz.

I did M49 in 34 hours, and I think AirSquirrels was able to do it in < 33 hours or something.

I only managed to get it running on 20 cores of the 28 total... the memory bandwidth seemed to limit it (or even impact performance negatively) when I went past 14 cores on one and 6 cores on the other socket.

But then the 14-core runs at 2.6 GHz (plus 5x133 turbo), and the 16-core (I assume the E5-2698 model) is 2.3 GHz (plus 5x133 turbo). So maybe the slightly slower CPU kept the memory from flooding? Anyway, still really fast.

[QUOTE=ATH;423987]Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :smile:

I need to start saving up for it.[/QUOTE]

I have a reasonably serious intention to replace my current 48-core Opteron server with a dual 12-core Skylake Xeon box in 2017; but this year that intention reifies itself in putting a few hundred pounds a month into an optimistically-named account.

[QUOTE=ET_;424000]The availability is still a bit sparse at the time of writing, but that should change very soon as the board is being rolled out to the different markets. The MSRP for the UK is set to £430 and the US price is set to $585.

[URL="http://www.eteknix.com/gigabyte-mw70-3s0-intel-c612-dual-cpu-workstation-motherboard-review_/12/"]MW70-3S0[/URL]

Adding a couple of E5-2699 v3 18 physical cores processors for $7,600[/QUOTE]
Not to mention populating an optimal number of memory slots.

I attempted a more modest approach, with mere 8-core, 2.4G CPUs. :smile: Two of [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117479"]these[/URL], plus one of [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128830"]these[/URL] comes to USD 2030, at Newegg ATM.

I then added USD 4160 for two [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&IsNodeId=1&N=100007952%20600418367"]128 G quad-channel sets[/URL].
Total: 6190 usd, and still no case or PSU. That could be brought down by different CPUs and RAM, of course.

hi,
i do recommend for a hdu
Western Digital Re Enterprise Capacity 2TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2004FBYZ) around € 160,-
Western Digital Se 2TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2000F9YZ) around € 130,-

[QUOTE=lalera;424024]hi,
i do recommend for a hdu
Western Digital Re Enterprise Capacity 2TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2004FBYZ) around € 160,-
Western Digital Se 2TB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD2000F9YZ) around € 130,-[/QUOTE]
WD Enterprise drives are great performers, in my experience. (WD4000FYYZ-1 in my case.)

[QUOTE=ET_;423978]What cooler? [COLOR=DarkOrange]What about the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO?[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
For my last two builds, I have used Noctua coolers and was very pleased.

hi,
Noctua NH-U12S € 60,- is good
a cheap and good cpu cooler is a
be quiet! Pure Rock (BK009) € 30,-

The fan on the Hyper 212 Evo will last about one year. It's still a good deal though.

Thank you all! :bow:

Today I will start looking for the best prices :smile:

:et_: