[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;464802]The Constitution of the United States, Article II, Section 2 ends, ... " and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in cases of Impeachment."[/QUOTE]

I think it is worth noting that President Obama couldn't pardon Snowden because he hadn't yet been convicted of a crime. He's been accused, (and is generally considered to be guilty) but not convicted.

It is also worth noting that President Obama, before becoming President, was a [URL="http://www.factcheck.org/2008/03/obama-a-constitutional-law-professor/"]Law Professor[/URL].

May we live in interesting times.

[QUOTE=chalsall;464909]I think it is worth noting that President Obama couldn't pardon Snowden because he hadn't yet been convicted of a crime. He's been accused, (and is generally considered to be guilty) but not convicted.[/QUOTE]

Maybe an amnesty then:

[QUOTE]under Article II, Section 2 of the United States Constitution which states that the President "shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment". The U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites, and [B]amnesties[/B].[23][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Amnesty: A pardon applied to a [B]group[/B] of people rather than an individual. President Jimmy Carter offered amnesty to anyone who had evaded the draft. Weapon amnesties are often granted so that people can hand in weapons to the police without any legal questions being asked as to where they obtained them, why they had them, etc. After a civil war a mass amnesty may be granted to absolve all participants of guilt and "move on". [B]Amnesties are typically applied in advance of any prosecution for the crime.[/B][/QUOTE]
edit:
Nixon was pardoned without conviction.
[QUOTE]With President Nixon's resignation, Congress dropped its impeachment proceedings against him. Criminal prosecution was still a possibility both on the federal and state level.[19] Vice President Gerald Ford succeeded Nixon as President and on September 8, 1974, he issued a full and unconditional pardon of Nixon, immunizing him from prosecution for any federal crimes he had "committed or may have committed or taken part in" as president.[20][/QUOTE]

[url=https://theintercept.com/2017/07/17/with-new-d-c-policy-group-dems-continue-to-rehabilitate-and-unify-with-bush-era-neocons/]With New D.C. Policy Group, Dems Continue to Rehabilitate and Unify With Bush-Era Neocons[/url] | Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept
[quote]It is, in fact, the ultimate union of mainstream Democratic foreign policy officials and the world’s most militant, and militaristic, neocons. The group is led by two longtime Washington foreign policy hands, one from the establishment Democratic wing and the other a key figure among leading GOP neocons.

The Democrat, Laura Rosenberger, served as a foreign policy adviser for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and chief of staff to two Obama national security officials. The Republican is Jamie Fly, who spent the last four years as counselor for foreign and national security affairs to one of the Senate’s most hawkish members, Marco Rubio; prior to that, he served in various capacities in the Bush Pentagon and National Security Council.[/quote]

Related:
[url=https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/05/neocons-leverage-trump-hate-for-more-wars/]Neocons Leverage Trump Hate for More Wars[/url] | Robert Parry, Consortium News

[QUOTE=ewmayer;464917][url=https://theintercept.com/2017/07/17/with-new-d-c-policy-group-dems-continue-to-rehabilitate-and-unify-with-bush-era-neocons/]With New D.C. Policy Group, Dems Continue to Rehabilitate and Unify With Bush-Era Neocons[/url] | Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept


Related:
[url=https://consortiumnews.com/2017/08/05/neocons-leverage-trump-hate-for-more-wars/]Neocons Leverage Trump Hate for More Wars[/url] | Robert Parry, Consortium News[/QUOTE]

at least trumps uniting them in one way ( if nothing else to throw him out)

[QUOTE=chalsall;464909]I think it is worth noting that President Obama couldn't pardon Snowden because he hadn't yet been convicted of a crime. He's been accused, (and is generally considered to be guilty) but not convicted.[/QUOTE]Nonsense. Richard Nixon was pardoned, even though he was never even formally [i]accused[/i] of a crime, let alone convicted (the closest the legal system ever came was a grand jury naming him an "unindicted co-conspirator"). Read [url=http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=4696]Proclamation 4311—Granting Pardon to Richard Nixon[/url].

[QUOTE=rogue;463553]One could argue that the media focus on Russian involvement is a good thing for everyone in Washington, including Trump. It masks the bigger problem of corporations having a more significant sway in new laws than the electorate.[/QUOTE]Perhaps you have in mind something like the following quote from an
[url=https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/03/al-gore-climate-change-inconvenient-sequel-carbon-polluters-hacked-american-democracy-before-putin/23061830/]August 3 AOL News piece[/url][quote]"Our democracy has been hacked by big money and lobbyists for polluters long before Putin hacked our democracy," Gore tells AOL News. "And too many politicians bow down to the large big money contributors because they feel like they have to beg them for money to buy TV ads."[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;464944]Read [url=http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=4696]Proclamation 4311—Granting Pardon to Richard Nixon[/url].[/QUOTE]

I sit corrected! :wink:

I was thinking about [URL="https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/21/13697072/obama-snowden-pardon-nsa-trump-pompeo"]this interview[/URL] with President Obama WRT Snowden.

Clearly, the times be a'changing....

Mike Pence Considering Running for President in 1820
 

[URL]http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/mike-pence-considering-running-for-president-in-1820[/URL]
[QUOTE]Vice-President Mike Pence is seriously considering running for President in 1820, various sources confirmed over the weekend.

According to several prominent Republican donors, Pence is already laying the groundwork for such a campaign, outlining what he believes are the most serious challenges facing 1820 America.[/QUOTE] :cmd: :rofl: :cmd:

[QUOTE=kladner;465137][URL]http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/mike-pence-considering-running-for-president-in-1820[/URL]
:cmd: :rofl: :cmd:[/QUOTE]
I know this is probably all comedy ( author is a comedian apparently), but they should at least have said 2180, instead of a comment about the century 1820 is from...

[QUOTE=science_man_88;465139]I know this is probably all comedy ( author is a comedian apparently), but they should at least have said 2180, instead of a comment about the century 1820 is from...[/QUOTE]
It is satire. I am quite sure that Andy meant to say 1820.
[Comment from Reader Supported News:
[QUOTE]Pence in 1620 makes a huge amount of sense! The challenge is for science to work on a time machine to make it happen![/QUOTE]I see the point as "Pence is "antediluvian"[COLOR=Red][B]*[/B][/COLOR] in his attitudes."
([COLOR=Red][B]*[/B][/COLOR]this usage is purely figurative.)

Silicon Valley techno-mega-douchetard Mark Zuckerberg is apparently gearing up for a presidential run in 2020. No clue as to whether the following has been allowed to filter up FB's proprietary news-ranking algos - not that an eminently trustworthy and transparent media corp. like FB might ever consider tweaking its sekrit algos to skew its news results in any way, or anything - but these cleverly non-obscene posters have started appearing at bus stops and such in FB's backyard of San Francisco:

Yesterday's events in Charlottesville, VA got me to thinking...

In 1973, the [url=https://www.clearinghouse.net/detail.php?id=15342]DOJ sued the Trumps[/url] over racial discrimination in housing, which resulted in a [url=https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/FH-NY-0024-0034.pdf]Consent decree[/url].

Since 1989, Trump has also repeatedly said [url=http://theweek.com/articles/653840/donald-trumps-30year-crusade-against-central-park-five]the Central Park are "guilty"[/url], despite their convictions being vacated 15 years ago, and another person having confessed (and whose DNA was found on the victim).

He prefaced his run for president by being [url=http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/donald-trump-birther/index.html]birther-in-chief[/url]

But here is a question for those who would claim that he isn't a racist: why do so many [i]avowed racists[/i] think he's so wonderful?

[url=http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/trump-supporters-neo-nazis-white-nationalists-kkk-militias-racism-hate/]Racists enthuse about Trump's candidacy[/url]

In particular,

[url=http://www.snopes.com/2016/11/02/kkk-newspaper-backs-donald-trump/]KKK's [i]The Crusader[/i] praises Trump just before the election[/url]

And, after the election,

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6-bi3jlxk]White nationalists celebrate Trump's election[/url]

And now,

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/neo-nazis-celebrate-trumps-remarks-about-charlottesville-riots-2017-8]Neo-nazis and white supremacists are celebrating Trump's remarks about the Charlottesville riots[/url]

I think it's somewhat ironic that the white Americans claim they whisked Trump into power. Because although it's true to some extent, had he gotten the rest of the country on board, last stats I found would mean he'd need less than 20% of them to get into power ( assuming a equivalence between percentage population and percentage of voters).

[QUOTE=ewmayer;465153]Silicon Valley [B]techno-mega-douchetard[COLOR=Red]**[/COLOR][/B] Mark Zuckerberg .....:[/QUOTE]
[COLOR=Red]**[/COLOR]ROFLMAO!

I searched the internet for the word [I]Trumpthink[/I] today. The Urban Dictionary seems to get the Orwellian gist for this admittedly minuscule sampling of recognizable names with "think" attached.
[url]http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trumpthink[/url]
[QUOTE]
trumpthink

As in George Orwell's 1984 citizens are required to think only in the way [B]Big Brother[/B] does - [B]Trump[/B] - no matter how much it conflicts with [B]reality[/B]

[I]Trumpthink says building a wall will stop non-Americans from getting into the country even though most of them come here by airplanes[/I]

#goodthink #rightthink #goodspeek
by stuartc1 February 08, 2017[/QUOTE]
Google finds only [URL="https://www.google.com/search?q="trumpthink"&newwindow=1&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=nws"]44 news articles[/URL] using the word.

Here are some:
[QUOTE]Midsummer nightmares reveal only tragic plot lines: Rae
Toronto Star‎ - Aug 4, 2017
The premise of Trumpthink is that those with insurance don't care much about those without it, and many express the point that taking care of ...

The Five Most Likely Explanations for Trump's “Covfefe” Tweet
Oohlo‎ - May 31, 2017
and using my crack investigative skills since I haven't had an entire cuppa yet, this is probably as close to “trumpthink” as I can get; here are the ...

Long live climate science! Hail to heroes of the Resistance!
Newsworks.org‎ - Dec 14, 2016
Andrew Dessler, a professor of atmospheric sciences gives us a succinct summation of Trumpthink: "If you can just get rid of the data, you're in ...

Trump supporters cloak un-American views in phony patriotism
New York Daily News‎ - Sep 23, 2016
Every day, there's another example of such Trumpthink. Certainly, a campaign can put forth any ideas it wants, but it can't put champion ...
[/QUOTE]

Google trends doesn't have enough data for trumpthink vs. obamathink but trumpthink has six times as many hits already and only three news articles are found using obamathink.

[i]Il Duce[/i] is repeating Fake History, it seems.

[quote]He took 50 bullets, and he dipped them in pig’s blood," Trump said. "And he had his men load his rifles and he lined up the 50 people, and they shot 49 of those people. And the 50th person, he said, 'You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.' And for 25 years there wasn’t a problem, okay?[/quote] -- Donald J. Trump, February 19, 2016

[quote]Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years![/quote] --Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 17, 2017

Hmm, in the interim, it went from 25 to 35 years...

Some of our commanders did stuff like that in the Philippines, but not Pershing:

[url=http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.asp]General Pershing on How to Stop Islamic Terrorists[/url]

My favorite quotation about our military operations in the Philippines after the Spanish-American war is the following:

[quote]I have said before that it may be necessary to kill half the population of the islands in order that the remaining half may be lifted from their semi-barbarity to the civilization we are ready to give them.[/quote] -- Major General William Rufus Shafter (San Francisco [i][b]Call[/b][/i], Volume 85, Number 140, 19 April 1899 — SHAFTER SAYS KILL HALF OF THE FILIPINOS)

Colbert came up with something much more telling from Pershing.

[quote]A competent leader can get efficient service from poor troops, while on the contrary an incapable leader can demoralize the best of troops.[/quote]
-- General John J. Pershing

I was actually able to track this one to a primary source:

[u]My Experiences in the World War[/u], Vol. II, p. 114. (New York, 1931)

"You seem to have about finished your work of civilizing the Filipinos. About 8,000 of them have been civilized and sent to Heaven. I hope you like it.”

Andrew Carnegie, American industrialist and anti-imperialist, 1899

The US paid Spain $20M for the Philippines. Carnegie offered to pay as much so that the Philippines could be independent.

If the shoe fits.....

Who'da thunk it? Keith Olbermann doesn't much like tRump.
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/keith-olbermann-donald-trump-texas-harvey_us_59a65d78e4b084581a14462f[/url]

Say it fast!

[QUOTE=kladner;467422]Say it fast![/QUOTE]

at least they could make it sound like supercalifragilisticexpalidocious

[QUOTE=science_man_88;467461]at least they could make it sound like supercalifragilisticexpalidocious[/QUOTE]
Sigh

[url=https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-real-reason-hillary-cant-just-shut-the-fuck-up-and-go-away-4e481b3edf84]The Real Reason Hillary Can’t Just Shut The Fuck Up And Go Away[/url] | Caitlin Johnstone, Medium
[quote]Hillary needs to keep coming back trying to convince everyone that President Trump isn’t her fault because her media goons convinced her supporters that President Trump would cause the end of the world. The fearmongering targeted at the left was relentless and brutal in the leadup to the November 8 election, and as a Jill Stein supporter I was told on a daily basis that I was helping to inflict armageddon upon America. I was told that if Trump won, Muslims would be rounded up and thrown into internment camps, marauding bands of brownshirts would be patrolling the streets slaughtering minorities with impunity, 11 million immigrants would be mass-deported, and Trump’s insanity would get us into a nuclear war.

People didn’t get these ideas in their heads out of nowhere, they got them because every time Trump said something asinine the entire mass media machine would ring frantic alarm bells about it for days and extrapolate every single thing he said into its most horrifying possible interpretation and implications. Liberals are still to this day suffering from Trump derangement syndrome because they were told over and over again that hell on earth would be unleashed if Trump won, and then he won.

In opting for this risky gamble of telling Democrats that something uniquely horrible would happen if Trump won, and then losing, Hillary Clinton was forced into a position where she had to either (A) tell America that everything was going to be okay, thereby admitting that much of what her people had been saying about Trump was a lie, or (B) let the fear persist and try to avoid getting blamed for it. She opted for B.
...
Clinton ran for president for the same reason Trump ran for president: ego. She wanted to attain the ultimate political trophy because of the way that attainment itself would make her feel. In terms of ego candy, being the woman who helped destroy the world is the polar opposite of becoming the first female president, so she’s trying to avoid it at all cost. She can’t stop coming back in and trying to manipulate the way people see the 2016 election until she’s convinced that the damage she did to her legacy has been indelibly blamed on other people. Until then, she’s going to have to keep trying to influence public sentiment.

America was spoonfed a boatload of lies in order to force the election of what the US oligarchs perceived as a more reliable pro-establishment candidate to protect their assets. Anyone who’s looking at the situation clearly can see that Trump isn’t extremely awful because of the few ways he’s differed from other recent presidents, he’s extremely awful because of the things he’s got in common with them. By far the most evil things that he has done haven’t been new horrors unique to his administration, but [url=https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/trump-is-continuing-and-expanding-all-of-bushbamas-worst-policies-7c6b6df3c800]continuations[/url] of Bush and Obama’s neoconservative civilian-slaughtering foreign policy, oppressive neoliberal domestic policy, and Orwellian surveillance policy. After all the fearmongering and freakouts, we’ve seen conclusively that Trump is essentially a Republican Obama, who was himself essentially a Democratic George W. Bush. If anything, Trump is just more personally obnoxious about doing the things his predecessors did.[/quote]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;468141][url=https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-real-reason-hillary-cant-just-shut-the-fuck-up-and-go-away-4e481b3edf84]The Real Reason Hillary Can’t Just Shut The Fuck Up And Go Away[/url] | Caitlin Johnstone, Medium[quote]If anything, Trump is just more personally obnoxious about doing the things his predecessors did.[/quote][/QUOTE]
I can think of a number of ways in which [i]Il Duce[/i] is significantly worse than his predecessors. First and foremost, he is a narcissist. Not only does he not care about his country or its people, he isn't [i]capable[/i] of caring. Ditto with the notion of at least [i]trying[/i] to do what's right. This man has [i]no[/i] moral compass.

Second, he has fomented a loutish incivility, and disregard for ethics and the rule of law, that is inimical to the ideals of the good ol' USA. It is one thing to say that the USA falls short of its ideals. But with the election of [i]Il Duce[/i], this country gives every appearance of having utterly abandoned any effort of [i]aspiring[/i] to those ideals. And that is the death of whole [i]concept[/i] of the good ol' USA.

Getting down to actual policy decisions, [i]Il Duce[/i] has appointed people to the Cabinet who are hostile to their Departments' missions (EPA, Interior, and Education come to mind). In other cases (such as State) he has left large number of positions unfilled, thereby hampering their ability to fulfill their functions.

The obvious and well-known hostility of the AG to even legal immigration to the US, to voting rights, and other civil rights, marks this Administration as significantly worse than recent predecessors, although Republicans' general hostility to civil rights is well known.

With Clinton there would have been at least a pretense of maintaining decorum.

Scenario: Rocket Man is sufficiently pissed off with the Donald's speech at the UN that he authorizes a 100kT low-altitude airburst delivered by IRBM some 3000km from DPRK at a mostly harmless location in the middle of the Pacific. Assume that the detonation goes to plan. (By "mostly harmless" I mean no person and no economic asset is in the vicinity of the explosion or the immediate fallout zone, neither is the explosion high enough to cause a damaging EMP.)

What in practice do you think the interested parties in the region would do in consequence?

[QUOTE=xilman;468320]Scenario: Rocket Man is sufficiently pissed off with the Donald's speech at the UN that he authorizes a 100kT low-altitude airburst delivered by IRBM some 3000km from DPRK at a mostly harmless location in the middle of the Pacific. Assume that the detonation goes to plan. (By "mostly harmless" I mean no person and no economic asset is in the vicinity of the explosion or the immediate fallout zone, neither is the explosion high enough to cause a damaging EMP.)

What in practice do you think the interested parties in the region would do in consequence?[/QUOTE]The Great Successor would get a message from China to the effect, "We need to talk. In Beijing. Now." He would go. The talks would be held in great secrecy and would be... prolonged.

Actually, of course, the only thing Haircut Man would be displeased with in Combover Man's speech, is that he's [i]already[/i] doing a pretty good job of totally destroying North Korea. I mean, the people are starving. The electrical grid is practically nonexistent. The economy (outside of military hardware and graft) is also practically nonexistent. How [i]dare[/i] this foreign clown say Haircut Man isn't capable of destroying his own country?

Besides, he might actually be quite pleased with The Donald -- PRNK is ruled by the object of a personality cult who likes to act like a raving lunatic, is abusive to those closest to him, and cares only about accumulating more wealth for himself and his cronies, and more military toys for his country. And they do say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

I am concerned though, that Haircut Man is doing so many tests, he's going to run out of bombs and missiles.

There's a whole lot of destroyed houses and infrastructure in Puerto Rico. Gee, I wonder if [i]Il Duce[/i] and his pals will try to profit from the situation...

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/politics/donald-trump-2006-hopes-real-estate-market-crashes/index.html]Donald Trump in 2006: I 'sort of hope' real estate market tanks[/url]
[quote]"If there is a bubble burst, as they call it, you know you can make a lot of money," Trump said in the 2006 audio book, "How to Build a Fortune." "If you're in a good cash position -- which I'm in a good cash position today -- then people like me would go in and buy like crazy."[/quote]

[url=https://www.wsj.com/articles/steven-mnuchins-defining-moment-seizing-opportunity-from-the-financial-crisis-1480547063]Steven Mnuchin’s Defining Moment: Seizing Opportunity From the Financial Crisis[/url][quote]In October 2011, dozens of activists gathered outside his mansion to protest OneWest’s evictions, waving signs and shouting angry slogans. Mr. Mnuchin has said he was rattled, and OneWest agreed to pay for security services at his home.[/quote]

[url=https://www.texastribune.org/2017/06/12/profiting-pain-trump-confidant-cashed-housing-crisis/]Profiting off pain: Trump confidant cashed in on housing crisis[/url]
[quote]One of President Donald Trump’s closest friends and confidants took advantage of the Great Recession to build an unprecedented real estate business that makes him tantamount to a modern-day slumlord – buying up homes, bumping up rents and allowing the properties to fall into disrepair.[/quote]

There's an entertaining video I couldn't view on CNN, but could at least [i]listen to[/i] on [url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl/honoré-trump-doesnt-care-about-people-of-color/vp-AAsy53R]MSN[/url], which was published at 5:50 pm ET, Wed Sep 27 2017 from Erin Burnett Out Front. She was interviewing Lt Gen Russel Honoré (now retired), who had been brought in to deal with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans. She played Donald Trump's response to a question about waiving the Jones Act, as he had done after Harvey and Irma:

[quote](Donald Trump) Well, we're thinking about that, but we have a lot of shippers and a lot of people and a lot of, uh, people that work in the shipping industry that don't want the Jones Act lifted.[/quote]

[quote](Erin Burnett) What's your response to that, General, the president seems concerned about the shipping industry.[/quote]

[quote](Gen. Honoré) I want to keep it clean. That's a cryin' damn shame. Uh, I knew since yesterday that big shots in Wall Street were making this call.

And the president has shown again, you don't give a damn about poor people, you don't give a damn about people of color, and the SOB that rides around in Air Force One is denying services needed by the people of Puerto Rico.

I hate to say it that way, but there's no other way to say it.[/quote]

The general is a bit miffed, eh? What would have come out if he weren't being restrained? :sirrobin:

[QUOTE=kladner;468766]The general is a bit miffed, eh? What would have come out if he weren't being restrained? :sirrobin:[/QUOTE]

Meanwhile, the WH has in fact granted a waiver of the Jones Act w.r.to Puerto Rico. Consulting Wall Street and Big Biz first is alas [i]de riguer[/i] in modern times irrespective of which party/person happens to be currently pretending to run the country. [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/28/lanny-breuer-joins-law-firm_n_2974058.html]Remember[/url] DOJ's #2 Lanny Breuer, in the now-infamous wake-of-the-GFC [i]Frontline[/i] interview in which he admitted that the DOJ gave high consideration to financial firms' public image and share price when weighing whether to prosecute said firms for their misdeeds? If Trump's characteristic crassness gets people to start paying attention to the influence of Big Money on US politics, great, but I find myself doing a lot of "and where was the outrage from --- during the preceding 8 years?"-asking these days, whether in reference to US imperial thuggery, Big Money's hold on government, what have you.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;468783]Meanwhile, the WH has in fact granted a waiver of the Jones Act w.r.to Puerto Rico. Consulting Wall Street and Big Biz first is alas [i]de riguer[/i] in modern times irrespective of which party/person happens to be currently pretending to run the country.[/QUOTE]You might want to check on whether this was done when the waivers were granted for TX and FL after Harvey and Irma. Senator McCain has been trying to get the Jones Act repealed for ages. In a [url=https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=BA2AB8F1-4CA0-4BCE-8998-481CCAFFB15D]letter to DHS[/url] dated September 26, he asked for the waiver, and raised some interesting questions.

DHS is saying the particular rationale they had for the waiver for TX and FL didn't apply to PR.

Maybe there's something to the notion that things are slowed down because (as [i]Il Duce[/i] has just discovered) PR is an island. It took 6 weeks to restore power to Kaua'i after [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Iniki]Hurricane Iniki[/url]:[quote]Although electrical power was restored to most of the island approximately six weeks following the hurricane, students returned to Kauaʻi public schools two weeks after the disaster. Kauaʻi citizens remained hopeful for monetary aid from the government or insurance companies, though after six months they felt annoyed with the lack of help.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Iniki#cite_note-kauai-9][sup]9[/sup][/url] The military effectively provided aid for their immediate needs, though, and help arrived before local officials requested aid.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Iniki#cite_note-fema-25][sup]25[/sup][/url][/quote]

Of course, FEMA was in pretty bad shape back then.

Memo to [i]Il Duce[/i]:

The commonwealth of Puerto Rico is United States territory. The people of Puerto Rico are United States citizens. They have been grievously afflicted by a natural disaster, and need their country's help. Now is not the time to talk about Puerto Rico's debt. Now is not the time to hem and haw about paying for the rebuilding of the shattered structure of their civilization.

The people of Puerto Rico do not need to hear excuses for hesitating to provide the immediate assistance needed to forestall a great dying. They do not need to be reminded that they live on an island. They do not need to be buried under a mountain of bureaucratic paperwork being raised as a barrier to assistance.

If this is what you call the relief mission going well, then forgive me for asking if the mission is simply to let the people of Puerto Rico die through the willful neglect of their government.

"Heckuva job, [STRIKE]Brownie![/STRIKE] Orangie!

There's a fun bit at around 1 minute 40 seconds into in the following [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oTDT9iss9Y]video[/url] of an interview with General Honoré in San Juan, after [i]Il Duce[/i]'s Twitter Tantrum against San Juan's mayor:[quote]CNN's Christi Paul: What is your reaction to the President's tweets this morning?

Gen Honoré: I have no reaction. The, the, mayor's living on a cot, and, uh, I, I hope the President have a good day at golf.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;468958]There's a fun bit at around 1 minute 40 seconds into in the following [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oTDT9iss9Y"]video[/URL] of an interview with General Honoré in San Juan, after [I]Il Duce[/I]'s Twitter Tantrum against San Juan's mayor:[/QUOTE]
:picard::sad: My thanks to the General for tactfully speaking out.
The thanks are sincerely intended. The sarcasm is loaded on the word "tactfully." Much stronger language might have been used, but this simple statement hits like a hammer.

What's worse -- [i][b]much[/b][/i] worse -- than [i]Il Duce[/i]'s playing golf this past weekend, WRT relief efforts in PR, was his doing so the [i]weekend before[/i], right after the storm hit -- and the Admin's near total lack of action WRT how to deal with the havoc wrought by Maria. No meetings, no calls to people out in the field, no nothing.

In terms of assessing the situation and formulating the response, that time right after the storm hit was precious -- and they squandered it.

As may have been said previously, PR, to tRump, is inhabited by a bunch of brown people, who are collectively deep in debt, and therefore are losers, who remind the Cheeto in Chief of Mexicans. And we know his attitudes toward Mexican people.

[QUOTE=kladner;469036]As may have been said previously, PR, to tRump, is inhabited by a bunch of brown people, who are collectively deep in debt, and therefore are losers, who remind the Cheeto in Chief of Mexicans. And we know his attitudes toward Mexican people.[/QUOTE]

I think the problem is, that it's only once you look at per capita debt that PR is deeply in debt based on discussions I've seen. if you average the rough [URL="http://www.usdebtclock.org/"]US debt[/URL] over the 16 territories and 50 states each one is about 305 ( okay 306 now) billion in debt on average. PR's debt is about 70 billion I think most discussions I've read say. It's only because they have a lower population that it can be called a deep debt.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;468890]Memo to [i]Il Duce[/i]:

The commonwealth of Puerto Rico is United States territory. The people of Puerto Rico are United States citizens.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but they're clearly not first-class citizens like the folks in NYC, DC and LA, where - by curious coincidence - [url=http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/01/bob-schieffer-1-in-5-reporters-now-live-in-nyc-la-or-dc-video/]fully one on five U.S. journalists also happens to reside[/url]. (Up from 1 in 8 in 2004 ... ain't out-of-control media concentration in the hands of a tiny number of megacorprations great?) They're at best second-class like the folks in places like Flint, MI, or third class, like those in, say, Ferguson, MO.

Snark aside, the fact of PR being an island does in fact make relief logistics incredibly hard - right after the Jones-Act waiver hit the news I read an article which said the waiver might in the near-term make things worse because there were already thousands of containers piling up at PR ports, unable to be moved inland because of flooding, washed-out roads, gasoline shortages, etc. Inane tech-news natterings about "drones to the rescue!" aside, I do think a massive airlift-based short-term effort would seem to be the way to go, but there may be practical barriers (e.g. lack of landing places) beside the military not wanting its precious toys diverted to actual humanitarian missions ... I don't know, and I don't trust the U.S. MSM to report in non-propagandist terms on this stuff - after all, hysteria sells far better than actual journalism.

Oh, the president playing golf while people die due to stuff the administration did or failed to do is another now-deeply-entrenched tradition. Who can forget Bush the Elder exhorting Iraq's southern "marsh" arabs to rise up against Saddam and then cheerily golfing while they were slaughtered en masse due to the administration having forgotten to make a no-fly-zone for Saddam's air force part of the cessation-of-hosltilties agreement for the first Gulf War? (Some interesting presidential-golf stats can be found [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/08/barack-obama-plays-300th-round-of-golf-as-president/]in this Guardian piece[/url]from August 2016, commemmorating Barack Obama's 300th round of golf as president.)

As far as DT goes, I think the Twitter tirades ain't helping and that a personal visit to PR - preferably in conjunction with the opening of a truly massive relief program - would be highly desirable, but won't hold my breath waiting for either to happen.

On the debt-relief front, NC's Lambert Strether has [url=https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/10/situation-puerto-rico-power-water-promesa.html]a piece up today[/url] on the history of the brutal austerity regime imposed on PR in a classic, resounding DC "display of bipartisanship" under the Obama administration.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;468890]The people of Puerto Rico are United States citizens.[/QUOTE]
Hm... Do they pay their taxes? :razz:
[COLOR=White][just ignore me, I have no business here, but I could not stop trying to be funny...]
[/COLOR]

[QUOTE=LaurV;469114]Hm... Do they pay their taxes? :razz:
[COLOR=White][just ignore me, I have no business here, but I could not stop trying to be funny...]
[/COLOR][/QUOTE]It's actually a valid question. Puerto Ricans generally do [i]not[/i] pay US income tax. They do, however, pay Social Security, payroll, import/export, and other Federal taxes. They are also [i]not[/i] eligible for Supplemental Security Income.

[url=https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/10/trump-says-puerto-rico-debt-needs-wiped.html]Trump Says Puerto Rico Debt Needs to be Wiped Out[/url] | naked capitalism
[quote]Mind you, not only is Trump capable of saying five contradictory things before breakfast, but he very rarely says the same thing over time (save declaring things he says he’s done to be “great”).

Nevertheless, having Trump go off the Wall Street/neoliberal script, likely by virtue of his own experience with bankruptcy, and say that debts that can’t be [paid] won’t be, is one of his occasional displays of speaking inconvenient truths. Does anyone want to place a bet as to how long it takes one of Trump’s Goldman operatives to walk his remarks back?[/quote]
I'm guessing that said inconvenient truth will have been officially walked back by the time I check back in tomorrow afternoon. The top-secret role of Boston hedge-fund vulture Seth Klarman as a major holder of PR debt is very interesting, and one wonders whether his switch in support in the last election from traditional Republican candidates to a traditional Republican candidate running as a Democrat has anything to do with Trump's debt-jubilee talk:
[quote]Klarman, who has been described as the Oracle of Boston, has a history of buying unpopular or distressed assets on the cheap in hopes of a payday. Baupost manages over $30 billion in assets. He is known as the top campaign contributor in New England, and has been a major donor in Republican politics in Massachusetts, including largely secret support for 2016’s Question 2, an ultimately unsuccessful effort to lift a state cap on charter schools. Klarman supported Hillary Clinton in 2016, calling Trump “completely unqualified for the highest office in the land.”[/quote]
Again, no real irony in Klarman's party-support switch, since HRC is, in all key respects (e.g. support for the Big Money and Big War constituencies, avid acolyte of the Neocon permawar project, Fracking Queen of upstate NY, etc), a traditional Republican. So a replay-in-microcosm of last Fall's pretzel-logic electoral match-up. But it's not clear to me at this point if Trump knew about Klarman's PR debt holdings when he made his statement. Stay tuned.

One comment from the NC article-
[QUOTE][INDENT]President Donald Trump said on Tuesday while on a trip to Puerto Rico to observe hurricane recovery efforts that the island’s massive debt will have to be wiped out.
[/INDENT]Important to remember the [U]rule of last conversation[/U] with regards to Trump: he tends to parrot the views of the last smart-sounding person he talked to. So he comes to Puerto Rico, talks to some official on the ground who pleads for a debt jubilee, Trump parrots them.
[/QUOTE] Emphasis mine.

Puerto Rico on Democracy Now!
 

Puerto Ricans Protest Trump's Visit, Denounce Militarization Amid Lack of Aid Distribution
[QUOTE][B]AMY GOODMAN:[/B] Trump’s visit comes just two days after he called Puerto Rican leaders who have criticized his hurricane response "politically motivated ingrates," and said Puerto Ricans, quote, "want everything to be done for them."
In a minute, we’ll go to San Juan for a live update from a protest against Trump’s visit today, but first we turn to a report from the interior of Puerto Rico filed by [I]Democracy Now![/I]’s Juan Carlos Dávila, our correspondent on the ground there. He traveled to the town of Utuado to speak with residents who have yet to get help, other than a few bottles of water.
[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.democracynow.org/2017/10/3/puerto_ricans_protest_trumps_visit_denounce[/URL]

Father of Lin-Manuel Miranda Slams Trump's "Racist" Attack on Puerto Ricans After Hurricane Maria

[URL]https://www.democracynow.org/2017/10/2/father_of_lin_manuel_miranda_slams[/URL]
[QUOTE]
Nearly two weeks after Hurricane Maria devastated the island, Puerto Rico’s 3.5 million residents still have nearly no electricity, and supplies of food, fuel and freshwater are dwindling. President Trump is scheduled to visit Puerto Rico on Tuesday, but attacked San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz in a series of tweets while he was at his private golf resort in Bedminister, New Jersey, this weekend. Trump wrote, "The Mayor of San Juan, who was very complimentary only a few days ago, has now been told by the Democrats that you must be nasty to Trump. Such poor leadership ability by the Mayor of San Juan, and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They want everything to be done for them when it should be a community effort. 10,000 Federal workers now on Island [U]doing a fantastic job[/U]."[/QUOTE]Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah. "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie."
Juan González: Puerto Rico's Financial Control Board Worsened Crisis After Hurricane Maria
[URL]https://www.democracynow.org/2017/10/2/juan_gonzalez_puerto_ricos_financial_control[/URL]
[QUOTE][B]AMY GOODMAN:[/B] This is [I]Democracy Now![/I] I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Nearly two weeks after Hurricane Maria slammed into Puerto Rico, the capital San Juan is still facing a dire lack of food, clean water, electricity. Hanging over one of San Juan’s freeway overpasses near the neighborhood of Playita are multiple cloth signs reading, in Spanish, "SOS Playita needs food and water."[/QUOTE]And, by the way, let us remember tRump's egregious lies and self-promotion while he was on PR. Also, remember that he told the Puerto Ricans that THEY had "thrown our budget out of whack." Didn't hear anything like that about the near-instant allocation of $15B+ for Texas.

One more piece:
Could Trump Actually Cancel Puerto Rico's Wall Street Debt After Devastation of Hurricane Maria?
[URL]https://www.democracynow.org/2017/10/4/could_trump_actually_cancel_puerto_ricos[/URL]
[QUOTE]Puerto Rico officials say the death toll from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico has increased from 16 to 34, though the Center for Investigative Journalism reports that number could still rise. The announcement came after President Donald Trump visited the U.S. territory on Tuesday and repeatedly praised his administration’s response to the storm, comparing it to George W. Bush’s handling of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. During Trump’s visit, protesters also gathered outside the convention center in San Juan. On Tuesday evening, Trump shocked observers by suggesting that he might seek to cancel Puerto Rico’s $74 billion debt. We get response from Democracy Now!’s Juan González.[/QUOTE]

Trump's tax reforms are a bigger gift to business than most expected
 

-by Joseph Stiglitz
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/04/trump-tax-reforms-business-republicans-debt[/url]
[QUOTE]While Trump the candidate criticised the growth of US national debt, he now proposes tax cuts that would add trillions to the debt in just the next 10 years – not the “only” $1.5tn that Republicans claim would be added, thanks to some growth miracle that leads to more tax revenues. Yet the key lesson of Ronald Reagan’s “voodoo” supply-side economics has not changed: tax cuts like these do not lead to faster growth, but only to lower revenues.[/QUOTE]
Here comes the Laffer Curve crap.

In my clickbait follow-through today I landed on Snopes.com to read about Trump:
[URL="http://www.snopes.com/trump-puerto-rico-golf-course/"]Did Donald Trump Bankrupt a Golf Course, Leaving Puerto Rico with $33 Million in Debt?[/URL]
TL/DR the answer is more nuanced and less satisfying -- which is why I called it clickbait.
Wikipedia:
[QUOTE]Betteridge's law of headlines is one name for an adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no." It is named after Ian Betteridge, a British technology journalist,[1][2] although the principle is much older. As with similar "laws" (e.g., Murphy's law), it is intended as a humorous adage rather than the literal truth.[3][/QUOTE]
While I was on Snopes I came across another Trump tidbit that was kind of cute:

[URL="http://www.snopes.com/trackdown-trump-character-wall/"]Did a 1950s TV Episode Feature a Character Named Trump Who Offered to Build a Protective Wall?[/URL]

[QUOTE]The television series Trackdown really did produce an episode featuring a “Trump” character who came to town claiming that only he could prevent the end of the world by building a wall (and also sold special force propelling umbrellas to deflect meteorites). The episode (S1, E30) aired on CBS in 1958 and was titled “The End of the World,” featuring actor Lawrence Dobkin playing the role of “Walter Trump.” A synopsis of the episode from the Classic TV Archive reads as follows:
[QUOTE]Walter Trump, a confidence man, puts on a long robe and holds a tent meeting in the town of Talpa. He tells the townspeople that a cosmic explosion will rain fire on the town and that he is the only one that can save them from death. Ranger Hoby Gilman attempts to prove Trump is a fraud.[/QUOTE]
While Dobkin appeared in at least three other episodes of Trackdown, this was the only occasion in which he portrayed the Walter Trump character

A relevant portion of dialog from this episode has been transcribed below:

[QUOTE]Narrator: The people were ready to believe. Like sheep they ran to the slaughterhouse. And waiting for them was the high priest of fraud.

Trump: I am the only one. Trust me. I can build a wall around your homes that nothing will penetrate.

Townperson: What do we do? How can we save ourselves?

Trump: You ask how do you build that wall. You ask, and I’m here to tell you.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kladner;469223]-by Joseph Stiglitz
[url]https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/04/trump-tax-reforms-business-republicans-debt[/url]

Here comes the Laffer Curve crap.[/QUOTE]
Reagan promised to cut taxes, raise defense spending, and balance the budget. He fulfilled the first two promises. As to the third, the Federal budget ran deeper in the red than it ever had before (200 billion a year). The federal debt doubled, and kept growing. That's how well tinkle-down economics generated more revenue.

If you want to see someone like [i]Il Duce[/i], I recommend an old movie called [i]A Face in the Crowd[/i]. The way the lead character lost his following is something I would [i]love[/i] to see happen to [i]Il Duce[/i]. Except, I'm not sure it would work...

American Kakistocracy
 

[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/american-kakistocracy/542391/[/URL]
Note that the author is "[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Ornstein"]Norman Ornstein[/URL], political scientist and resident scholar at the conservative [U]American Enterprise Institute.[/U] The situation is too catastrophic for even gallows humor to be appropriate.
A commenter from the DKos piece which led me to The Atlantic points out that when the military rules with ineptitude and corruption it is termed a "[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khakistocracy"]khakistocracy[/URL]."
[QUOTE]From cabinet officials jetting around on the public dime, to Trump's shattering of ethical norms, to disregard for congressional procedure—there’s a case to be made that the United States is governed by the least scrupulous of its citizens.
[I]
Kakistocracy[/I] is a term that was first used in the 17th century; derived from a Greek word, it means, literally, government by the worst and most unscrupulous people among us. More broadly, it can mean the most inept and cringeworthy kind of government. The term fell into disuse over the past century or more, and most highly informed people have never heard it before [B](but to kids familiar with the word “kaka” it might resonate)[/B].[/QUOTE] Emphasis mine. :smile:

As much as reading stuff like this is disheartening, many of the same problems would have occurred if HC were elected.

[QUOTE=rogue;469641]As much as reading stuff like this is disheartening, many of the same problems would have occurred if HC were elected.[/QUOTE]
I have no love, and little respect for HRC, but it is hard to imagine that the government would be in such complete disarray under her. Instead of destabilizing the world with chaotic flailing, we would be witnessing destabilization by cold calculation, courtesy of the Clinton-Nuland cabal.

Tomgram: William Hartung, How to Wield Influence and Sell Weaponry in Washington
 

[B]Massive Overkill [/B]
[B]Brought to You By the Nuclear-Industrial Complex [/B]
By [URL="http://www.tomdispatch.com/authors/williamhartung"]William D. Hartung[/URL]
(Opening paragraph by Tom Engelhardt, introducing the article named above:)
[QUOTE]When it comes to the art of the deal, at least where arms sales are concerned, American presidents, their administrations, and the Pentagon have long been Trumpian in nature. Their role has been to beat the drums (of war) for the major American weapons makers and it’s been a highly profitable and successful activity. In 2015, for instance, the U.S. once again took the [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/26/us/politics/united-states-global-weapons-sales.html"]top spot[/URL] in global weapons sales, $40 billion dollars of them, or a staggering 50.2% of the world market. (Russia came in a distant third with $11.2 billion in sales.) The U.S. also [URL="https://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/R44716.pdf"]topped sales[/URL] of weaponry to developing nations. In these years, Washington has, in fact, peddled the products of those arms makers to [URL="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/20/global-arms-weapons-trade-highest-point-since-cold-war-era"]at least 100 countries[/URL], a staggering figure if you stop a moment to think about the violence on this planet. Internationally, in other words, the U.S. has always been an open-carry nation.[/QUOTE]And the opening words from Hartung himself:
[QUOTE]Until recently, few of us woke up worrying about the threat of nuclear war. Such dangers seemed like Cold War relics, associated with outmoded practices like building fallout shelters and “[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_1jkLxhh20"]duck and cover[/URL]” drills.

But give Donald Trump credit. When it comes to nukes, he’s gotten our attention. He’s prompted renewed concern, if not outright alarm, about the possibility that such weaponry could actually be used for the first time since the [URL="http://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176031/tomgram%3A_christian_appy%2C_america%27s_hiroshima_and_nagasaki_70_years_later/"]6th[/URL] and [URL="http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176032/tomgram%3A_susan_southard,_under_the_mushroom_cloud_--_nagasaki_after_nuclear_war/"]9th[/URL] of August 1945. That’s what happens when the man in the Oval Office begins[URL="https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/08/trump-north-korea-warning-241409"] threatening[/URL] to rain “fire and fury like the world has never seen” on another country or, as he did in his presidential campaign, [URL="http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-cnn-debate-2015-12"]claiming[/URL] cryptically that, when it comes to nuclear weapons, “the devastation is very important to me.”
[/QUOTE]
Today I am hearing that Repub Bob Corker is pushing to limit the president's power to destroy the world via nuclear conflagration. Not holding my breath on that one.

Thomas Frank (of [i]Listen, Liberal[/i] fame) savages the pundit class in an op-ed for [i]The Guardian[/i]:

[url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/12/aghast-donald-trump-thomas-frank]We’re still aghast at Donald Trump – but what good has that done?[/url]
[quote]The parade of the aghast is the obverse of the gullible way our pundits usually contemplate American leaders – lionizing them as men of crisis, admiring their gravitas as they go from international summit to emergency bank bailout. And now the buffoon Trump has exposed it all as a fraud.
...
They are aghast, almost every one of them, and they compete fiercely with one another to say just how aghast they are. It is a ‘parade of the aghast’, as an acquaintance calls it, with all the skills of the journalist reduced to a performance of perturbation and disgust.[/quote]
NakedCap's Lambert Strether, who once was a fairly well-placed member of the Dem-Party machine, [url=https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/11/200pm-water-cooler-11142017.html]adds[/url], "And I would bet money very few of the aghast lost their homes to foreclosure in the crash, or lost their jobs, or lost a family member or friend to opioids. I bet they’ve all got dental. What in the world have they got to be aghast about?"

Interface
 

So, I've been re-reading Stephenson and Jewsbury's [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interface_(novel)"]Interface[/URL].

Scarily resonates with where we currently find ourselves. No need for a biochip brain implant; just give the President a smart phone with an internet connection....

[URL]https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/12/05/plunder-capitalism/[/URL]
I still find it amazing that I agree so often with someone described as-
[I][QUOTE][B]Paul Craig Roberts[/B] is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal.[/QUOTE][/I][QUOTE]What we are witnessing in the US and indeed throughout the western world is the total failure of capitalism. Capitalism is now merely a looting machine. The financial sector no longer supplies capital for production. What the financial sector does is to turn discretionary consumer income into interest and fee payments to banks. Aggregate demand can only grow through debt expansion, and the consumers reach a point where they cannot expand their debt.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Nothing is left of the West except looters at work. This tax bill is an abomination, an act of brutal plunder. Its sponsors should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail, if not hung from a lamp post.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps [i]Il Duce[/i] has found a way to get everyone's minds off the antics of that Pugsley Addams impersonator running the PRK:

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42246564]US to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital[/url]

Let the festivities begin!

[cross-posted to Lounge -> Things-that-make-you-go-hmmmm...]

It did not take long for the expected blowback from Trump's Zionist-demographic-pleasing inanity w.r.to Jerusalem to begin:

[url=https://www.thebeaverton.com/2017/12/palestinians-recognize-texas-part-mexico/]Palestinians recognize Texas as part of Mexico[/url] | The Beaverton

The onion has many adept, right?

[QUOTE=firejuggler;473469]The onion has many adept, right?[/QUOTE]

The Onion has deteriorated markedly since being bought by a billionaire Hillary booster a few years back - but thankfully numerous sites (and even 'legitimate' news outlets such as above, by way of running an occasional Onionesque piece) have stepped in to fill the void. On the military side we have Duffel Blog, in the UK we have Daily Mash, etc.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;473493]The Onion has deteriorated markedly since being bought by a billionaire Hillary booster a few years back - but thankfully numerous sites (and even 'legitimate' news outlets such as above, by way of running an occasional Onionesque piece) have stepped in to fill the void. On the military side we have Duffel Blog, in the UK we have Daily Mash, etc.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure the Onion is much worse than Fox. They tend to be equally dishonest.

If you disagree please present counter arguments.

[QUOTE=chalsall;473508]I'm not sure the Onion is much worse than Fox. They tend to be equally dishonest.

If you disagree please present counter arguments.[/QUOTE]
The Onion was, at least, excellent satire, cleverly presented. I can't say I've kept up with it in years, but I still get a kick out of a May 2002 headline and article,
[CENTER][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][B]Pope Forgives Molested Children[/B][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/CENTER]

[QUOTE=kladner;473517][SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua][B]Pope Forgives Molested Children[/B][/FONT][/SIZE]
[/QUOTE]
Yes, we also remember that one, a link was posted here around by somebody, not so long time ago. Really a master piece. :tu:

Trump's ambassador to Netherlands in 'fake news' blunder

Press article (in English): [URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42460055[/URL]

So, he denies, on tape, that he ever said what he said on tape. Then denies that he denied, on tape. Ironic that such a fumbling idiot once chaired the House [U]Intelligence[/U] Committee.

In the background, Dan is saying, "They lie and don't care that they do. He denied it, so it didn't happen."
The Ambassadorial Embarrassment sure was denying some doosies of Right Wing blather. "Politicians set on fire"?!? I wonder which Foxian creature was peddling that bit of genuine "Fake News."

Pruitt appoints FDIC-banned banker buddy to lead Superfund division at EPA
 

[URL]https://theintercept.com/2017/12/28/scott-pruitt-failed-banker-running-epa-superfund-program/[/URL]
Birds of a feather have cozy relationships. The banker had issued mortgages to Pruitt in the past. Surprise!
[QUOTE]In May, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation fined Oklahoma banker Albert Kelly $125,000. According to a [URL="https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4336500-2017-11-17-08-59-12.html"]consent order[/URL], which The Intercept obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, the FDIC had “reason to believe that [Kelly] violated a law or regulation, by entering into an agreement pertaining to a loan by the Bank without FDIC approval.”

Two weeks later, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt appointed Kelly to lead an effort to streamline the Superfund program. In July, the FDIC went further, banning Kelly from banking for life. The “order of prohibition from further participation” explained that the FDIC had determined Kelly’s “unfitness to serve as a director, officer, person participating in the conduct of the affairs or as an institution-affiliated party of the Bank, any other insured depository institution.”

But Pruitt, who had received loans from Kelly’s bank, apparently didn’t find Kelly’s unfitness to serve in the financial industry as disqualifying his longtime friend from serving as a top official at the EPA. Since May, Kelly, or Kell as he was known in Oklahoma, has led the effort to streamline the Superfund program — which oversees remediation of some of the country’s most toxic sites.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kladner;475200][URL]https://theintercept.com/2017/12/28/scott-pruitt-failed-banker-running-epa-superfund-program/[/URL]
Birds of a feather have cozy relationships. The banker had issued mortgages to Pruitt in the past. Surprise![/QUOTE]

Reminiscent of the "Friends of Angelo [Mozilo]" in congress during the subprime-mortgage-ensuing global financial crisis.

They say that seeing is believing, but when you see the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RSreIM]Official Trumpy Bear commercial[/url] you [i]still[/i] won't believe it.

Assuming it's a real thing (not just a spoof), I can say with confidence that it would make a better president than the one we've got.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;475292]They say that seeing is believing, but when you see the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RSreIM]Official Trumpy Bear commercial[/url] you [i]still[/i] won't believe it.

Assuming it's a real thing (not just a spoof), I can say with confidence that it would make a better president than the one we've got.[/QUOTE]

Ha,ha, I first saw that on late-nite cable a couple months ago, initially thought it was a joke, but it appears to be a real product. Now the sellers might have started it as a tongue-in-cheek thing and be laughing their butts off all the way to the bank, but it's even [url=https://www.amazon.com/Trumpy-Bear-As-Seen-TV/dp/B077P1W9FS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1514588823&sr=8-2&keywords=Trumpy+Bear]for sale on Amazon[/url].

If you want to understand what has happened to the United States of America, listen to


[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5ShyXSJpJs]David Souter on civic ignorance[/url]

A DESPERATE, blithering eff-up has demanded the media accurately report how unbelievably fantastic it is.
[URL]http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/piss-eyed-tango-monster-demands-everyone-say-nice-things-about-it-20170217122330[/URL]
[QUOTE]The unnaturally fluorescent mass of insecurities, apparently incapable of understanding basic logic, told press that the real story was how incredible it was and how much everyone loved it.[/QUOTE][a reporter commented that] : “Its neediness is almost to be pitied, if it wasn’t such a contemptible sack of orange '[I]stuff[/I]'.”

Mikado
 

[url]https://twitter.com/mrnickharvey/status/949772526103736320[/url]

[QUOTE=xilman;476830][URL]https://twitter.com/mrnickharvey/status/949772526103736320[/URL][/QUOTE]
I must point out that the spoofed lyrics are from The Pirates of Penzance.

[QUOTE=kladner;476842]I must point out that the spoofed lyrics are from The Pirates of Penzance.[/QUOTE]Scheiß :sad:

Did you not realise the parallels between the Mikado and the Donald?

[QUOTE=xilman;476873]Did you not realise the parallels between the Mikado and the Donald?[/QUOTE]

The Donald is a vainglorious leader who wants to get medieval on terrorism. The Mikado does have a vainglorious leader that wants to get medieval on unmarried flirting.
[QUOTE]POOH-BAH (Spoken) Don't mention it. I am, in point of fact, a particularly haughty and exclusive person, of pre-Adamite ancestral descent. You will understand this when I tell you that I can trace my ancestry back to a protoplasmal primordial atomic globule. Consequently, my family pride is something inconceivable. I can't help it. I was born sneering. But I struggle hard to overcome this defect. I mortify my pride continually. When all the great officers of state resigned in a body, because they were too proud to serve under an ex-tailor, did I not unhesitantly accept all their posts at once?

PISH-TUSH (Spoken) And all the salaries attached to them? You did.

POOH-BAH (Spoken) It is consequently my degrading duty to serve this upstart as First Lord of the Treasury, Lord Chief Justice, Commander-in-Chief, Lord High Admiral, Master of the Buckhounds, Groom of the Back Stairs, Archbishop of Titipu, and Lord Mayor, both acting and elect, all rolled into one. And at a salary! A Pooh-Bah paid for his services! I a salaried minion! But I do it! it revolts me, but I do it!

NANKI-POO (Spoken) And it does you credit.

POOH-BAH (Spoken) But I don't stop at that. I go and dine with middle-class people on reasonable terms. I dance at cheap suburban parties for a moderate fee. I accept refreshment at any hands, however lowly. I also retail State secrets at a very low figure. For instance, any further information on Yum-Yum would come under the head of a State secret. (Aside) Another insult, and, I think, a light one![/QUOTE]

I visited wiki entry about the movie, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy-Turvy"]Topsy-Turvy[/URL], that portrays the Victorian era making of The Mikado by Gilbert and Sullivan. I really enjoyed that movie when it came out and planned to watch it again, although I never did.

The Mikado has an executioner version of the
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barber_paradox"]barber paradox[/URL]:
[QUOTE]PISH-TUSH

Our great Mikado, virtuous man,
When he to rule our land began,
Resolved to try
A plan whereby
Young men might best be steadied.

So he decreed, in words succinct,
That all who flirted, leered or winked
(Unless connubially linked),
Should forthwith be beheaded, beheaded, beheaded
Should forthwith be beheaded.

And I expect you'll all agree
That he was right to so decree.
And I am right,
And you are right,
And all is right as right can be!

CHORUS

And you are right.
And we are right,
And all is right, is right as right can be!
And all is right as right can be!
right as right can be!

PISH-TUSH

This stern decree, you'll understand,
Caused great dismay throughout the land!
For young and old
And shy and bold
Were equally affected.
The youth who winked a roving eye,
Or breathed a non-connubial sigh,
Was thereupon condemned to die—
He usually objected, objected, objected,
He usually objected.

And you'll allow, as I expect,
That he was right to so object.
And I am right,
And you are right,
And everything is quite correct!

CHORUS

And you are right,
And we are right,
And everything is quite, is quite correct,
And everything is quite correct,
All is quite correct!

PISH-TUSH

And so we straight let out on bail
A convict from the county jail,
Whose head was next
On some pretext
Condemned to be mown off,
And made him Headsman, for we said,
"Who's next to be decapited
Cannot cut off another's head
Until he's cut his own off, his own off, his own off.
Until he's cut his own off."

And we are right, I think you'll say,
To argue in this kind of way;
And I am right,
And you are right,
And all is right—too-looral-lay!

CHORUS

And I am right,
And you are right,
And you are right,—too-looral-lay!

PISH-TUSH and CHORUS

And we are right,
And all is right,
And all is right!

[Exeunt CHORUS.][/QUOTE]

On New Year's Eve, I watched Anderson Cooper in Times Square. In previous years, Kathy Griffin was with him but she has been disinvited from that event over her holding a mock decapitated Donald Trump head. All the same I missed her presence this year.

[QUOTE=xilman;476873]Scheiß :sad:

Did you not realise the parallels between the Mikado and the Donald?[/QUOTE]
Well, now that you mention it, the Mikado is a better parallel. The Pirate King is far too perceptive to compare to The Donald.
[INDENT]When I sally forth to seek my prey
I help myself in a royal way
I sink a few more ships, it's true
Than a well-bred monarch ought to do

But many a king on a first-class throne
If he wants to call his crown his own
Must manage somehow to get through
More dirty work than ever I do.
[/INDENT]

[url]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B077F4WZZY/ref=mw_dp_cr[/url]
The Amazon reviews of Michael Wolff's [I]Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House[/I]
are themselves fast and furious. With currently 1300 reviews, it reminds me of the [URL="https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/28/wendy-davis-shoes-amazon_n_3516574.html"]Wendy Davis' Filibuster Shoe[/URL] (Mizuno Women's Wave Rider 16 running shoe) reviews although less guarded in expletives. I like this one:
[QUOTE]5.0 out of 5 stars When wannabee dictators make demands
By Cynthia M. on January 5, 2018
Format: Kindle Edition|Verified Purchase

When a lunatic sitting in the whitehouse DEMANDS that a publisher halts the publication of a book that exposes that lunacy, I did what every red-blooded American would do. I immediately preordered it just to say '*F*** Y** #45. You can poison the air, land and water and make horrendous policies that hurt everything I hold dear, but keep your tiny ugly hands off my book shelves."

28 comments| 4,086 people found this helpful.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=only_human;476933]I visited wiki entry about the movie, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy-Turvy"]Topsy-Turvy[/URL], that portrays the Victorian era making of The Mikado by Gilbert and Sullivan. I really enjoyed that movie when it came out and planned to watch it again, although I never did.
[/QUOTE]
There are many films in which good actors fail to convince when they pretend to play the piano or conduct an orchestra.
Topsy-Turvy is refreshing because the actor playing Sullivan (Allan Corduner) really can do both.

For some reason, [i]Il Duce[/i] and his followers bring to mind James Thurber's

[url=https://www.k-state.edu/english/baker/english320/Thurber-The_Owl_Who_Was_God.htm]The Owl Who Was God[/url].

Trump Demands Poem on Statue of Liberty Be Revised to Exclude Sh?thole Countries
 

[url]https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-demands-poem-on-statue-of-liberty-be-revised-to-exclude-shithole-countries[/url]
I need not say more. :razz:

[QUOTE=kladner;477460][url]https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-demands-poem-on-statue-of-liberty-be-revised-to-exclude-shithole-countries[/url]
I need not say more. :razz:[/QUOTE]
Saturday Night Live returns tonight with an all new episode. Does Trump even care how hard last minute script changes are on the cold open? I'm just saying.

[QUOTE=kladner;477460][url]https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-demands-poem-on-statue-of-liberty-be-revised-to-exclude-shithole-countries[/url]
I need not say more. :razz:[/QUOTE]

Then again, we all knew Trump was a crass, boorish guy going into the election - dude's a NYC real-estate developer, after all. Unhelpful as the latest "the Id speaks!" moment was, I'm leery of falling into the "decorum trap" being deployed by the MSM and the Hillaryites, by which well-spokenness is simultaneously portrayed as being essential to the presidency and treated as a magic balm which excuses all manners of actual *inflicted* policy horrors.

As one NC reader [url=https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/01/links-11218.html#comment-2909810]commented[/url]:
[quote]RE: Immigration Talks Muddled Amid Vulgar Trump Comments Wall Street Journal

Pulverize them with bombs and drones, destabilize their governments, exploit them financially, instigate then ignore humanitarian crises, but don’t [i]evah[/i] call them “shitholes.” That’s just [i]vulgar[/i], and if there’s one thing americans will not tolerate, it’s [i]vulgarity[/i].

He should’ve just called them “deplorable.” At least the msm wouldn’t have to look like fools pretending they couldn’t say the word on tv.[/quote]

But it has always been a question of how far he will go, and currently, how far gone he is.

[QUOTE=kladner;477483]But it has always been a question of how far he will go, and currently, how far gone he is.[/QUOTE]

How far he will go in terms of policy or politesse? Obama was unfailingly decorous in his verbiage, but - e.g in terms of bailing out the crooked Wall Street bank cartels, expanding the imperial wars, deporting illegal immigrants, and normalizing the worst of the W. Bush-era atrocities - he went pretty goddamn far.

Re. the "how far gone", please tell me you haven't bought into the - now that the-Russians-own-the-presidency BS is visibly falling apart - latest impeachment-angling meme by Team DNC and establishment insiders. Here's why that meme doesn't pass my smell test:

[url=http://www.zdnet.com/article/here-are-the-256-lawmakers-members-who-just-voted-to-reject-privacy-reforms-and-extend-nsa-spying/]These are the House members who voted to extend NSA spying and reject privacy reforms[/url] ZD Net

To which none other than Glenn Greenwald [url=https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/951948948402524160]commented[/url]:
[quote]Right. If you combine today's news with yesterday's, the bipartisan commentary amounts to: "Trump is a racist, corrupt, mentally unfit degenerate, and it's imperative we give him the power to spy on Americans without any meaningful checks or safeguards." [url]https://t.co/jkrKjNFJ4o[/url][/quote]

Not sure just what I buy into these days. Not "Russia owns us." Thing is, while you certainly have to reject the entire picture as Greenwald presents it, it is hard to rule out each detail.

There are many (millions perhaps?) around the world who would describe the US as a :poop:hole country. Not all of them are outside the US and/or non-US citizens.

To me, saying that the Russians tried to influence the election is belaboring the obvious. And their operation in and of itself is bad enough, practically an act of war. I do [i]not[/i] think their meddling had all that much to do with the outcome. I think that Bernie Sanders could have won against [i]Il Duce[/i]. Just about any Democratic candidate [i]other[/i] than HRC would have beaten [i]Il Duce[/i] handily. But people were so fed up with the status quo, they were willing to vote for a "none of the above" candidate. And, as is so often the case when people are completely fed up with the status quo, they choose -- or wind up with -- something much worse.

Ron Paul, bless his heart, has said he will filibuster the Gestapo Powers Act. But of course [i]Il Duce[/i] needs to be able to spy on everyone -- at least if he plans on staying in power. He knows perfectly well he is deeply unpopular, and widely viewed as ignorant and incompetent. He recently dissolved his fake Voter Fraud Commission. Why had he appointed the commission in the first place? Because he had asserted, with zero evidence, that HRC's multimillion popular vote plurality was the result of "millions" of illegally cast votes. And, since he had no evidence, his calls to DOJ to investigate fell on deaf ears. His calls to Congress to investigate garnered replies to the effect, "Don't waste our time." So, he appointed a commission. And when this commission began demanding lists of [i]all[/i] eligible voters, state Secretaries of State, by and large, told them to take a flying :censored: at the moon.

At this point I'm beginning to wonder whether the 2018, or especially the 2020 elections for federal offices -- will even be held.

BTW, there was an item in the news not too long ago that [i]Il Duce[/i] asserted that he had the executive authority to order DOJ to open -- or close -- [i]any[/i] investigation. Sounds like the Gestapo to me...

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;477510]BTW, there was an item in the news not too long ago that [i]Il Duce[/i] asserted that he had the executive authority to order DOJ to open -- or close -- [i]any[/i] investigation. Sounds like the Gestapo to me...[/QUOTE]To the best of my knowledge, the Geheime Staatspolizei didn't have any such power. Some members of the Kabinett Hitler undoubtedly di.d.

[QUOTE=xilman;477514]To the best of my knowledge, the Geheime Staatspolizei didn't have any such power. Some members of the Kabinett Hitler undoubtedly di.d.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking more in terms of the Gestapo being empowered to investigate just about anything -- especially political opposition -- and being answerable only to [i]der Fuhrer[/i]. As described in the Wikipedia page on the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo]Gestapo[/url],

[quote]The Gestapo had the authority to investigate cases of treason, espionage, sabotage and criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and Germany. The basic Gestapo law passed by the government in 1936 gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial review—in effect, putting it above the law.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo#CITEREFDamsStolle2014][sup]27[/sup][/url] The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws. As early as 1935, a Prussian administrative court had ruled that the Gestapo's actions were not subject to judicial review. The SS officer Werner Best, one-time head of legal affairs in the Gestapo,[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo#CITEREFMcNab2009][sup]28[/sup][/url] summed up this policy by saying, "As long as the police carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo#CITEREFShirer1990][sup]29[/sup][/url][/quote]

[QUOTE]"As long as the police carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally."[/QUOTE]
"When the President does it, that means it's not illegal."
-Richard Nixon

Why Senator Cardin Is a Fitting Opponent for Chelsea Manning
 

[URL]https://consortiumnews.com/2018/01/16/why-senator-cardin-is-a-fitting-opponent-for-chelsea-manning/[/URL]

It is not the least surprising that the official attack line on Manning from Dems is, "Russian Stooge."
[QUOTE]The top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Ben Cardin [Md.], has become a big star in national media by routinely denouncing Russia as a dire threat to American democracy. The senior senator from Maryland personifies the highly dangerous opportunism that has set in among leading Democrats on the subject of Russia.

Chelsea Manning confirmed on Sunday that she is challenging Senator Cardin’s re-election effort in the Democratic primary this June. Her campaign has real potential to raise key issues. One of them revolves around the kind of bellicose rhetoric that heightens the dangers of conflict between the world’s two nuclear superpowers.
[/QUOTE]

Whoda thunkit? :max:

Dutch Hackers and Russian Hackers
 

[url]https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/[/url]

[QUOTE]That's how the AIVD becomes witness to the Russian hackers harassing and penetrating the leaders of the Democratic Party, transferring thousands of emails and documents. It won't be the last time they alert their American counterparts. And yet, it will be months before the United States realize what this warning means: that with these hacks the Russians have interfered with the American elections. And the AIVD hackers have seen it happening before their very eyes.

The Dutch access provides crucial evidence of the Russian involvement in the hacking of the Democratic Party, according to six American and Dutch sources who are familiar with the material, but wish to remain anonymous. It's also grounds for the FBI to start an investigation into the influence of the Russian interference on the election race between the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and the Republican candidate Donald Trump.[/QUOTE]

Some Tom Clancy shit going on around here it seems...

[QUOTE=wombatman;478461][url]https://www.volkskrant.nl/media/dutch-agencies-provide-crucial-intel-about-russia-s-interference-in-us-elections~a4561913/[/url][/QUOTE]

Was unable to access the article - got a "you need cookies" message in Dutch, but neither clicking the "ja, Ich akzepten der Kookies, d00d" button nor manually adding volkskrant.nl to my Firefox allow-cookies exception list works. Interestingly, I get the same error message in my Safari browser, which I fall back on on the rare occasions I decide to view an article that needs my browser in "all orifices wide open" lack-of-privacy mode.

Can you possibly post the full translated text here? Thanks.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;478471]...
Can you possibly post the full translated text here? Thanks.[/QUOTE]The article was already translatedand readable from Belgium with a Firefox 27 fork (pale moon) and uBlockOrigin active.

Jacob

Thanks. I had just used the auto-translate Chrome offers. Sorry about that!

[QUOTE=S485122;478472]The article was already translatedand readable from Belgium with a Firefox 27 fork (pale moon) and uBlockOrigin active.

Jacob[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Jacob - I'm still using FF v22 because it was the last version in which Mozilla gave the user easy control over image-display in webpages - v23 and n they removed that checkbox from the User Preferences menu. My Safari is similarly old because I need a version which runs under Mac OS 10.6.8, the last really fast lean-and-mean version of the OS before Apple started a steady iOS-domnated process of crapfication. (For example, 10.7.5 running on my sae Core2Duo hardware is virtually unusable, it's so grindingly slow and needing of frequent reboots). Perhaps that oder-version-ness is behind the cookies issue.

As the article, Interesting if true, but lots of caveats:

o It smacks of 'heroic Dutch hackers foil evil Russians' propaganda-for-domestic-consumption, right down to the gratuitous references to MH17, which 'heroic Dutch air safety experts' were oh-so-very-quick to blame on the Russians, conveniently exonerating the West's Ukro-nazi 'allies' who took power after the US-orchestrated Maidan Spring coup in Ukraine, and who had access both to the same anti-aircraft missile batteries and a much greater motive for such a shootdown, in form of a false-flag attack.

o The leaked DNC e-mails showed that the real 'interfering with democratic elections' that occurred was by Clintonite insiders in the DNC, who blatantly rigged the primary process in favor of their preferred candidate. Moreover, the veracity of the leaked e-mails has never been questioned. Do you not think the American people have the right to know about such anti-democratic manipulations on part of one of the 2 major establishment parties, irrespective of its source?

o The woe-is-us pearl clutching by the US-side spooks is hilariously melodramatic, e.g. [i]"The Americans were taken completely by surprise by the Russian aggression, says Chris Painter in Washington. For years, Painter was responsible for America's cyber policy. He resigned last August. 'We'd never expected that the Russians would do this, attacking our vital infrastructure and undermining our democracy.' "[/i] As if every major global power doesn't try to snoop one every other one 24/7, and as if the US weren't far and away the worst of the lot, in terms of hacking, [url=http://thefreethoughtproject.com/us-rigging-russia-election-cia-struggles/]election-rigging[/url] and spying not only on its enemies but on its allies? And the attempted State Department penetration being the worst hack ever', really? What secret material was really stolen, and how does its seriousness compare with that of [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/07/09/hack-of-security-clearance-system-affected-21-5-million-people-federal-authorities-say/]this recent hack by our Chinese[/url] 'allies'? Oddly, I haven't heard any 'act of war' verbiage from our politicians and MSM with regard to the massive secret-personnel-database hack by the Chinese - rather a glaring double standard, don't you think?

Honestly, I shared it because I found the "hackers hacking hackers" bit to be interesting. The details about the back-and-forth between the NSA and the Russians is fascinating too--very movie-like in description.

And I put a bit more weight on this story b/c it seems to stem from the Dutch hackers being pissed that their ongoing operation was revealed so that the US political parties (Democrats, primarily, obviously) and the FBI/CIA/NSA could go "RUSSIANS!".