[QUOTE=storm5510;554587]Many would prefer a forced future abdication, of them both, in the wee hours of November 4th.[/QUOTE]
That is assumed in [b]Uncwilly[/b]'s suggestion (which IMO is worthy of The Unspeakable One himself).

The thing is, the president-elect does not assume office until January 20. Between the election and the inauguration, the incumbent president is a "lame duck," but still able to exercise all powers of the office.

Issuing pardons on the way out the door is traditional. Besides pardoning Nixon as previously noted, President Gerald Ford pardoned "Tokyo Rose" on January 19, 1977. She had been convicted of treason, but Ford considered her even having been tried to have been unjust. AFAIK, that is the most recent pardon of anyone convicted of treason.

(The first pardons for treason were issued by President George Washington on Christmas Day 1795 (so not on his way out the door), of leaders of the "Whiskey Rebellion.")

Aitch (George H. W. Bush) issued a flurry of notable pardons as a lame duck, but IIRC they were just before Christmas 1992.

It seems the imperious leader wants to do away with payroll taxes which would effectively deplete Social Security for millions in 2023. One of many articles is [URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/terminating-payroll-tax-could-end-social-security-benefits-2023-chief-n1238021"]here[/URL]. He has to get congressional approval to do this, which it seems he may not get. Members of his own party have come out against it. It will not get past the "house" from what I gather. I do not know what he is thinking...

[QUOTE=storm5510;554972] I do not know what he is thinking...[/QUOTE]
John Oliver's last LWT (edit: the one from two days ago, called "Border Wall II", I had to specify, because I know in some countries, like Australia, they are delayed with 3 or 4 weeks, I can only guess what the reasons are, as they are also shown on TV, and probably, if you allow youtube access to them, nobody would watch your TV), is quite relevant to "what the funking is he [the leader] thinking" part...

[QUOTE=storm5510;554972]It seems the imperious leader wants to do away with payroll taxes which would effectively deplete Social Security for millions in 2023. One of many articles is [URL="https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/terminating-payroll-tax-could-end-social-security-benefits-2023-chief-n1238021"]here[/URL]. He has to get congressional approval to do this, which it seems he may not get. Members of his own party have come out against it. It will not get past the "house" from what I gather. I do not know what he is thinking...[/QUOTE]
This topic previously mentioned in [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=553525&postcount=1227]this post[/url]. The following post speculates on what he may be thinking.

A passage from The Bard came to mind, which seems to describe the attitude some folks have toward the current occupant of the White House.

[quote]Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus, and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.[/quote]-- [i]Julius Caesar[/i] by William Shakespeare (Act I, Scene 2)

The reference is to the Colossus of Rhodes, a huge statue of the god Helios that for 54 years stood astride entrance to the harbor until it was toppled by an earthquake.

Fast forward to the 1870's. French sculptor Frédéric-Auguste Bartholdi, inspired by abolitionist Édouard de Laboulaye, decided to create a truly monumental gift to the United States, to honor the friendship between to the two nations, as well as the abolition of slavery. A few more details on this may be found in item 4 [url=http://thebattery.org/lady-liberty-10-fascinating-facts/]here[/url]. I am sure that some Forumites will find other of the details therein appealing as well.

[i]Anyway[/i], Bartholdi travelled to the United States, and selected the site for the statue, then known as Bedloe's Island (now Liberty Island).

He had studied the toppling of the Colossus of Rhodes and found that it had snapped off at the ankles. He came up with a completely different structure to eliminate this mode of failure -- a thin skin placed over a framework supported by a strong internal support structure. For the design of this structure, he turned to the great French engineer Gustave Eiffel. Modern assessments have indicated that, given the materials and techniques available at the time, the support structure was about as good as it possibly could have been.

However, a large pedestal was required, and getting the money to build it proved to be a problem. A public fundraising effort was initiated, and the money was raised.

As a part of this effort, a poetess named Emma Lazarus wrote the following sonnet, which was largely ignored at the time and soon forgotten. However, after her death, a friend waged a successful effort to have the poem memorialized, and it is now on a bronze plaque mounted inside the pedestal:

[center][b]The New Colossus[/b]

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"[/center]

I'm no poet, and I know it, but I have tried notwithstanding to rework the last, best-known part of this poem, to serve as a campaign slogan for the Orange Colossus. Improvements desperately sought!

[center]Give me your minds unwell,
Your huddled bigots yearning to run free,
The wretched who would fall under my spell.
Send these, who think that all is lost, to me.
I lift my lamp beside the gates of hell![/center]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;554995]Send these, who think that all is lost, to me.
I lift my [STRIKE]lamp[/STRIKE] [U]gun[/U] beside the gates of hell![/QUOTE]
I made a slight change. Fist would work too.

A solemn anniversary
 

On August 27, 2019, 19-year-old Harry Dunn was killed when his motorcyle was hit by a car.

Anne Sacoolas has been charged with causing death by dangerous driving, by driving on the wrong side of the road.

She left the country after being interviewed by investigators, having had diplomatic immunity at the time of the offense charged.

This has been discussed on the Forum, in this and at least one other thread.

To commemorate the anniversary, I post some links to recent news stories.

BBC, July 22: [url=https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-53500449]Harry Dunn death: US immunity rule used by Anne Sacoolas closed[/url]

BBC, Tuesday [url=https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-53907098]Harry Dunn death: Attorney general 'considers virtual trial'[/url]

Washington Post, today: [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas/2020/08/26/ff5408d8-e23d-11ea-82d8-5e55d47e90ca_story.html]Britain considers trying American accused of killing Harry Dunn in absentia[/url]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;554999]I made a slight change. Fist would work too.[/QUOTE]
"Raise my fist" is good. He frequently makes the "raising a clenched fist" gesture. Thanks!

It's déjà vu all over again!
 

[url=https://apnews.com/94695dd39b2277401b7d76c0c2491de2]Who's in power? Convention lineup has clues to Trump's favor[/url]

For the benefit of younger Forumites, this sort of headline and story was quite common during the Cold War. People (usually called "Kremlinologists") were always trying to figure out what the powers-that-be in the Soviet Union were up to, who was in favor, and who had lost favor. They would take note of the presence, absence, and placement of officials at events such as the annual Mayday Parade in Moscow. If the placement of officials relative to the Party Chairman had changed from last year, this was interpreted as shifts in how they were held in official favor. If some high official was mysteriously absent, he was out.

Also in the "I've seen this movie before" department, I was talking with my neighbor the other day -- the one who's borrowing my hummingbird feeder. She'll be 90 years old next month. She is currently reading [u]Too Much and Never Enough: How My Family Created the World's Most Dangerous Man[/u]. She told me she has asked members of the younger generations of her family, "Do you see Hitler?" She says, "I am not encouraged." She [i]remembers[/i] Hitler.

Honestly, the "the next Hitler" trope has gotten really shopworn - and a whole lot of actual Hitler-worthy warmongering has been done in its name. How many countries has the US imperium blown to smithereens in the last 40 years after noisy MSM-abetted propaganda campaigns which proclaimed the leader of one the targeted-for-forced-'democratization' countries to be the next Hitler? If you compare e.g. actual wars of aggression started-by, erosions of civil liberties overseen-by, etc, for recent presidents, Trump is certainly no extreme outlier.

And the DNC seems to be doing its darndest to maximize the odds of him getting a second term, by nominating a truly odious pair of neoliberal elitist faux-progressives in form of Joe Biden, career-long warmonger and water-carrier for the Elite looter class and Kamala Harris, whose similarly vile policy record one is not supposed to criticize because "as a woman of color, she's a historic VP choice" and similar identity-politics nonsense.

Let's start with Trump's latest genius idea to cut Social Security - indeed, a vile proposal. Problem? The candidate opposing him has publicly, loudly, and over his entire career gone on record and on video multiple times saying we need to cut Social Security.

More - A little Biden-related blast from the past (2008), from the late, great Alexander Cockburn:

[url=https://www.counterpunch.org/2008/08/23/quot-change-quot-quot-hope-quot-why-they-must-be-talking-about-joe-biden/]Cockburn — Change, Hope … Why They Must be Talking About Joe Biden![/url]
[quote]Another shining moment in Biden’s progress in the current presidential term was his conduct in the hearings on Judge Alito’s nomination to the US Supreme Court. From the opening moments of the Judiciary Committee’s sessions in January, 2006, it became clear that Alito faced no serious opposition. On that first ludicrous morning Senator Pat Leahy sank his head into his hands, shaking it in unbelieving despair as Biden blathered out a self-serving and inane monologue lasting a full twenty minutes before he even asked Alito one question. In his allotted half hour Biden managed to pose only five questions, all of them ineptly phrased. He did pose two questions about Alito’s membership of a racist society at Princeton, but had already undercut them in his monologue by calling Alito “a man of integrity”, not once but twice, and further trivialized the interrogation by reaching under the dais to pull out a Princeton cap and put it on.[/quote]
Biden's treatment of Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings was similarly reprehensible.

Kamala Harris - the fact that [url=https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/26/kamala-harris-has-complicated-history-with-wall-street.html]she gave multiple white-collar megacrooks[/url] (like current SecTreas Steve Mnuchin, former head of a crooked foreclosure mill, [url=https://theintercept.com/2017/01/03/treasury-nominee-steve-mnuchins-bank-accused-of-widespread-misconduct-in-leaked-memo/]OneWest Bank[/url]) free passes while going hard after that truly dangerous class of villains, parents of truant children, is a huge red flag. And this sort of thing is clearly a pattern for her:

[url=https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/09/while-pge-played-cat-and-mouse-game-with-california-regulators-where-was-kamala.html]While PG&E Played a ‘Cat and Mouse Game’ With California Regulators, Where Was Kamala?[/url] | naked capitalism

From last September. Also -

[url=Harris Lets Statute Of Limitations On San Onofre Lapse, Defends Governor Brown]Harris Lets Statute Of Limitations On San Onofre Lapse, Defends Governor Brown[/url] | Capitol Watchdog
[quote]California Attorney General Kamala Harris had evidence in her hands that she could have used to bring former PUC President Michael Peevey, architect of the secret San Onofre deal, to justice. And she had plenty of time, three years, to file criminal charges before the statute of limitations ran out on obstruction of justice–the easiest charge to prove.

She had all she needed from a search warrant executed at Peevey’s home in September 2015. That’s where a California Justice Department criminal investigator working on her behalf turned up damning evidence of an under-the-table deal to put $3.3 billion of the $4.7 billion needed to close the defective nuclear plant onto ratepayers. Hand-written notes, scrawled in Warsaw on Hotel Bristol stationary in March 2013–where Peevey met with a Southern Califoria Edison executive–laid out the numbers. The notes also showed that Southern California Edison would donate $25 million to a UCLA research institute as part of the deal.

It is…evident that Peevey utilized his position to influence SCE’s commitment to millions of dollars to UCLA to fund a research program...[/quote]

Did y'all see the lineup of featured speakers at the Dem convention? It was one right-wing Republican and worst-of-the-Bush-administration rethuglican after another. John Kasich and Colin frickin' Powell, ferchrissakes. To think that the only thing that matters is getting rid of Trump, and not who replaces him ... delusional. The lesser of 2 evils is still evil, and quite often proves not-lesser.

I've said it before - folks like the Obamas and Bidens of this world are more dangerous than the Trumps, because they mask their evil deeds with a veneer of civility and well-spokenness. They lull you with their "decorous psychopathy", and the MSM give them a free pass on same.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;555406]Honestly, the "the next Hitler" trope has gotten really shopworn - and a whole lot of actual Hitler-worthy warmongering has been done in its name. How many countries has the US imperium blown to smithereens in the last 40 years after noisy MSM-abetted propaganda campaigns which proclaimed the leader of one the targeted-for-forced-'democratization' countries to be the next Hitler?
<snip>[/QUOTE]
My soon-to-be 90 years old neighbor would likely be puzzled by the word "trope." She sees a clear resemblance between the Hitler personality cult (which she remembers) and that of the Jobbernowl Who is God. She says she has to keep her mouth shut about politics with some of her own progeny because (to paraphrase) they are cultists. She knows it is futile to try to argue with them.

I told her about the recollection of a German man who had, in his teens, along with his friends, swallowed the Nazi ideology hook, line and sinker. He explained, "We were young, and we were stupid." He talked about it at the dinner table with his parents. His father argued with him. His mother stopped him. "Dear, there's no point. He's been brainwashed." My neighbor thought it was relevant.

(BTW, this same man also recalled what happened when, as a member of the Waffen SS, he was sent to Russia as part of the occupation force in some remote village. He fell in love with a Russian woman. "Suddenly," he said, "I knew I was in the middle of something terrible.")

"Blown to smithereens?" Talk about "shopworn." I recall every US military venture since 1980, but can't recall a single country being "blown to smithereens" in that period. The first reasonable candidate that comes to mind is Afghanistan, which your masters in Moscow did quite a number on from 1979 to 1986, with the Taliban pulverizing what was left until 2000. After 9/11, about all US efforts could do was "make the rubble dance."

The other candidate is Syria, which Bashir al-Assad, with no small assist from your masters in Moscow, has pretty thoroughly wrecked.

And, speaking of "shopworn," "US imperium" is practically a throwback to [i]Pravda[/i] writing of the Stalin era.

As to the Orange Colossus, he is certainly an outlier in the internal politics of the US, which, despite your desperate attempt to change the subject, is the subject of my neighbor's concern, with an election coming up.

Every avowed racist in the country, if not on the planet, has claimed him as one of their own. When's the last time [i]that[/i] happened with a US President? Of course, anyone who has a problem with, say, a black man in Kenosha, WI being shot seven times in the back and paralyzed from the waist down is a "thug" and an "anarchist." The paralyzed victim was cuffed to his hospital bed, while the guy who murdered two people protesting the injustice was allowed to walk free.

How about the Republican National Convention, where the Secretary of State, after promulgating State Department policy that State Department officials must refrain from participating in partisan politics, spoke at the Republican Convention? When's the last time [i]that[/i] happened?

The Admin's response to COVID-19 shows the complete triumph of political bootlicking over competence and science. The latest guidelines, willfully disregarding the possibility of transmission by asymptomatic transmission, was promulgated in the absence of Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was undergoing surgery. And, of course, cult members don't give a hoot.

[YOUTUBE]vVSgSogHf6o[/YOUTUBE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;555419][YOUTUBE]vVSgSogHf6o[/YOUTUBE][/QUOTE][i]Where will he go next? This phantom from another time, this resurrected ghost of a previous nightmare. Chicago? Los Angeles? Miami, Florida? Vincennes, Indiana? Syracuse, New York? Anyplace, everyplace, where there's hate, where there's prejudice, where there's bigotry. He's alive. He's alive so long as these evils exist. Remember that when he comes to your town. Remember it when you hear his voice speaking out through others. Remember it when you hear a name called, a minority attacked, any blind, unreasoning assault on a people or any human being. He's alive because, through these things, we keep him alive.[/i]

-- closing narration, [i]He's Alive[/i]

In Gahan Wilson's [u]"...and then we'll get him!"[/u] there's a cartoon showing an aged Adolf Hitler in South American exile walking with two canes on a balcony, his face a portrait of fury, while a guy sitting in a chair in the corner says, "Oh, stop bitching about it, will you? It's all been over and done with for years?"

(That last question mark may be a typo, but it's not [i]my[/i] typo. It's printed that way in my copy of the book.)

[URL="https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/2020-voting-guide.html"]The best way to vote in every state of the US[/URL]

[url=https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/09/seaside-on-edge-over-planned-open-carry-march-sunday.html]This article[/url] and [url=https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3377595582278803&id=396757797029278&ref=page_internal]this open letter[/url] show us that the brownshirts have arrived in little Seaside, Oregon. Or (given my predilection to use the moniker [i]Il Duce[/i]), is it the blackshirts?

And here the Orange Colossus® is running as the "law-and-order" candidate who will get rid of the thugs in the streets.

Oh, wait, he ran as the "law-and-order" candidate in the [i]last[/i] election. Well, I guess one term isn't enough for him to deliver. We'd better give him a second term. And if that isn't enough, let's just throw the Constitution away and start planning the coronation.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;556160]Oh, wait, he ran as the "law-and-order" candidate in the [i]last[/i] election. Well, I guess one term isn't enough for him to deliver. We'd better give him a second term. And if that isn't enough, let's just throw the Constitution away and start planning the coronation.[/QUOTE]

As has been said before, watching this "from away" is just mind-blowing! :sad:

The US of A is fundamentally based on code. Law.

No one could have predicted during the initial coding session (and then the ongoing debugging) the speed of technological advancement, nor that you'd have someone come into such a system with absolutely no morals.

And I'm not just talking about Trump here. I lump Zuckerberg et al into that set as well.

The Canadians here will get this reference... [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orjbwv8H9zM"]I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together[/URL]... :smile:

[QUOTE=chalsall;556176]As has been said before, watching this "from away" is just mind-blowing! :sad:

The US of A is fundamentally based on code. Law.

No one could have predicted during the initial coding session (and then the ongoing debugging) the speed of technological advancement, nor that you'd have someone come into such a system with absolutely no morals.[/quote]
Oh, I don't know about that. Before the founding of the Republic, there was a rather talented military commander, who was extremely self-centered, and thus became so incensed at being passed over for a promotion he felt he deserved, he decided to exact retribution by handing West Point over to the British. His name was Benedict Arnold. (He escaped to England, but his intermediary, Major Andre, was caught and hanged.)

Then there was this character who ran for President in 1800 by the name of Aaron Burr. He was widely considered to be unscrupulous at the time. The result of this election led to some of the debugging you mention (the Twelfth Amendment).

The way Presidential elections worked then, the candidate with the most electoral votes would be President, the one with the second-most would be Vice-President. Unless, of course, the top two candidates wound up in a tie. If that happened -- and it did happen in the 1800 election -- the election went to the US House of Representatives. And the House vote [i]also[/i] wound up a tie on the first ballot. And the second. And (over a period of five days) the third, fourth, ... thirty-fifth ballot.

Finally, Alexander Hamilton, despite being a vehement political adversary of Jefferson, felt that Jefferson was of good character, but that Aaron Burr was not, so decided to throw his support behind Jefferson. Jefferson became President, and Aaron Burr became Vice-President.

Three years later, Burr challenged Hamilton to a duel. Burr lived, Hamilton died. Legend has it that Hamilton first fired in the air, and that Burr then drew a bead on him and shot him dead.[quote]And I'm not just talking about Trump here. I lump Zuckerberg et al into that set as well.[/QUOTE]
Agree on Zuckerberg being without morals.

[i]Il Duce[/i] talking about the "rule of law" will add a scene to the movie, [i]Hypocrisy Now[/i].

L'état, c'est moi
 

[url=https://apnews.com/01d363af809beb6cf32a92598313d2a5]DOJ asks to defend Trump in rape accuser's defamation suit[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) — The Justice Department is asking to take over President Donald Trump's defense in a defamation lawsuit from a writer who accused him of rape, and federal lawyers asked a court Tuesday to allow a move that could put the American people on the hook for any money she might be awarded.

After New York state courts turned down Trump's request to delay E. Jean Carroll's suit, Justice Department lawyers filed court papers aiming to shift the case into federal court and to substitute the U.S. for Trump as the defendant. That means the federal government, rather than Trump himself, might have to pay damages if any are awarded.[/quote]I will consider myself fortunate if this doesn't give me a fatal case of the dry heaves.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;556543][url=https://apnews.com/01d363af809beb6cf32a92598313d2a5]DOJ asks to defend Trump in rape accuser's defamation suit[/url][/QUOTE]I'm fairly sure that a conviction of rape involves more than just monetary rewards for the victim. The perp usually also gets some quality time with Chad in the local lock-up.

So if found guilty the U.S. goes to prison? That would interesting to see!

[QUOTE=retina;556544]I'm fairly sure that a conviction of rape involves more than just monetary rewards for the victim. The perp usually also gets some quality time with Chad in the local lock-up.

So if found guilty the U.S. goes to prison? That would interesting to see![/QUOTE]
This is a defamation lawsuit, not a criminal case.

I don't know the details about the rape allegation, but I can think of two possible reasons for there being no criminal case. One is, there simply might not be enough evidence to bring a criminal case to court. The other is, the time interval for bringing a case specified by the statute of limitations might have already elapsed.

The defamation suit arises because the president called the rape accusation a lie, and so his accuser a liar.

The standard of proof in a civil action is lower than for a criminal conviction. If the Plaintiff wants to obtain the president's DNA to compare with something in her possession, however, the latest legal maneuver would, if successful, make that more difficult. If the motion is (as I expect) denied, it will no doubt be appealed, delaying the lawsuit further.

If [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html"]this NYT article[/URL] is true, that would make Trump the "con man"der-in-chief of the US .

[QUOTE=rogue;558159]If [URL="https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html"]this NYT article[/URL] is true, that would make Trump the "con man"der-in-chief of the US .[/QUOTE]Tax [i]avoidance[/i] isn't a crime, though it may illustrate the maxim that the real scandal is what's legal. Tax [i]evasion[/i] (e.g. knowingly failing to report income) [i]is[/i] a crime. It's what put Al Capone in prison.

But -- how the heck do you run up $70,000.00 in hairstyling expenses in one year? And were those expenses really a deductible "business expense?"

If the $70,000.00 figure were bogus, that would be tax fraud, which is also a crime. And one, IIRC, with no statute of limitations.

As was pointed out during the 2016 campaign, "I can't publish my tax returns because I'm being audited" is a lie -- a completely bogus excuse. Nixon published his returns while being audited. Everybody knew it, very few people cared.

It is unusual for an IRS audit to take more than three years, to go back more than three years, or for someone to be audited year after year. When any of those things happen, it generally means the IRS is finding substantial errors and/or fraud, which lets them dig deeper.

America's once and future "con-man"der-in-chief has got to be the man best known as Victor Lustig. Yes, he finally ended up in prison. But before he was finally caught, he had an illustrious career in crime, culminating in being a con man who was able to sell the Eiffel Tower -- [i]more than once[/i]. He also collaborated on making very nearly perfect counterfeit bank notes ("Lustig-Watts notes") including counterfeit $100 bills which could fool bank tellers, and had the potential of wreaking havoc on the financial system. And it is likely that nobody will ever know his true identity.

I had read that Trump has paid more money to his lawyers to fight the audits than he would have paid to cover the fines that the IRS has levied against him.

What should concern Americans is the $400m in loans he has to pay off within the next four years. To whom does he owe money? With his power as President, what will he do to either avoid paying those loans, push the payment to American citizens, etc?

I work for an international company and just yesterday was required to take an on-line course about bribery and corruption, specifically how to identify and how to avoid. After I was done with the course, I can see clearly now how Trump using properties that he (or the Trump Org) owns would set the stage for corruption. It doesn't matter if there is any corruption, the appearance of corruption is dangerous enough for any business. As I thought further about it, I'm surprised that foreign countries would accept an offer to do political business at one of his properties.

Going one step further, Trump has talked for years about the "deep state" and trying to root it out and the corruption within it. The benefit of Trump is that corruption is now clearly visible at the surface and many of his supporters willfully ignore it.

And finally regarding the SCOTUS nominee, if put on the Supreme Court, will she recuse herself of all court cases that could decide the winner of the election make it to the court? If not, it would look a lot like [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quid_pro_quo"]"quid pro quo"[/URL] and that should concern all Americans. Again, it doesn't matter if she would make a decision for or against Trump or the Republican party. The appearance of corruption would be significant. It might push the country "over the edge" in terms of war.

[QUOTE=rogue;558221]I had read that Trump has paid more money to his lawyers to fight the audits than he would have paid to cover the fines that the IRS has levied against him.[/quote]So far, anyhow. Wait -- he actually [i]paid his lawyers?[/i]

[quote]What should concern Americans is the $400m in loans he has to pay off within the next four years. To whom does he owe money?[/quote]I vaguely recall reading/hearing some time ago that he owed hundreds of millions to Deutsche Bank. And that Deutsche Bank was about the only bank left that would do business with him, due to his habit of not paying his debts.

There's an old saying: If you owe a hundred thousand dollars to the bank, it's your problem. If you owe a hundred [i]million[/i] dollars to the bank, it's the [i]bank's[/i] problem.

[quote]Going one step further, Trump has talked for years about the "deep state" and trying to root it out and the corruption within it. The benefit of Trump is that corruption is now clearly visible at the surface and many of his supporters willfully ignore it.[/quote]
Sort of like the benefit of not having a sense of smell, if there's a major sewer backup or a failed septic system in the neighborhood.

[QUOTE=rogue;558221]I had read that Trump has paid more money to his lawyers to fight the audits than he would have paid to cover the fines that the IRS has levied against him.




[/QUOTE]

What worries the bloated cheeto is not the fines but the jail time. I have read several analyses that explain the possibility of serious jail time for him and his daughter is very real.

[QUOTE=tServo;558290]What worries the bloated cheeto is not the fines but the jail time. I have read several analyses that explain the possibility of serious jail time for him and his daughter is very real.[/QUOTE]Why would he be worried about jail time? Federal income tax evasion and tax fraud are "Offenses against the United States," for which he has the power of pardon. He just issues blanket pardons all 'round, including to himself. Nobody goes to prison.

If he's facing criminal charges for offenses against a [i]State[/i], of course, he can't pardon himself out of those. I believe the State of New York has some legal proceedings underway.

As to his debts -- if worst came to worst, he has tangible assets he could liquidate to cover them if his creditors decided to turn the screws.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558297]Why would he be worried about jail time? Federal income tax evasion and tax fraud are "Offenses against the United States," for which he has the power of pardon. He just issues blanket pardons all 'round, including to himself. Nobody goes to prison.[/QUOTE]

If Biden is elected I cannot see him getting a pardon, but I do see a future Republican president pardoning him, even posthumously.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;554999]I made a slight change. Fist would work too.[/QUOTE]
:sad:

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558297]He just issues blanket pardons all 'round,[U] including to himself.[/U] Nobody goes to prison.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;554426]Will Nov-Jan be[URL="https://youtu.be/M11SvDtPBhA?t=62"] pardon season in the USA[/URL]?[/QUOTE]

I stand by my question.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;558315][QUOTE=Uncwilly;554426]Will Nov-Jan be[URL="https://youtu.be/M11SvDtPBhA?t=62"] pardon season in the USA[/URL]?[/QUOTE]I stand by my question.[/QUOTE]You'll just have to stand by until then.

[QUOTE=tServo;558290][COLOR=Gray]What worries the[/COLOR] [B]bloated cheeto[/B] [COLOR=gray]is not the fines but the jail time. I have read several analyses that explain the possibility of serious jail time for him and his daughter is very real.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[U]Off topic[/U]: I read, "The Original Orangutan" somewhere recently. :missingteeth:

[QUOTE=storm5510;558346][U]Off topic[/U]: I read, "The Original Orangutan" somewhere recently. :missingteeth:[/QUOTE]
I did find something quite similar:

From [url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/05/05/i-believe-i-am-treated-worse-trump-says-as-if/]Dana Milbank's May 5, 2020 column[/url],
[quote]Allow me to share some frank thoughts about the president:

The orangutan in the White House is less refined than a savage. He is a fool, an irresolute, vacillating imbecile. He is an idiot, of low intellectual capacity. He is a barbarian, a yahoo, a gorilla — the original gorilla — and an unshapely man. He is horrid-looking, a scoundrel, a creature fit, evidently, for petty treasons.

He is dishonest. He is unjust. He has no principle, no respect for law. In his administrative madness, on his unconstitutional crusade, he uses the power of government to crush. His presidency is despotism, a dictatorship, a monstrous usurpation, a criminal wrong and an act of national suicide.
<snip>
At this point, I should mention that the president these words refer to is Abraham Lincoln. They are examples of contemporaneous criticism of the Great Emancipator from the newspapers of the day, strung together with minor changes.
[/quote]

One interpretation of your post is that Lincoln was vindicated by history and that Trump will also be vindicated by history. I'm fairly certain that was not your intention. The only way that Trump will be vindicated by history is if history would be written by the white supremacists and evangelicals. Since those groups want their version of history taught in schools, that is frightening.

[QUOTE=rogue;558351]One interpretation of your post is that Lincoln was vindicated by history and that Trump will also be vindicated by history. I'm fairly certain that was not your intention. The only way that Trump will be vindicated by history is if history would be written by the white supremacists and evangelicals. Since those groups want their version of history taught in schools, that is frightening.[/QUOTE]
To interpret my post properly, you might want to read the whole column. If you can't get access, PM me.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558355]To interpret my post properly, you might want to read the whole column. If you can't get access, PM me.[/QUOTE]

I did, which is why I determined that your intent is not as I stated.

I do believe that Trump and many of his followers expect him to be vindicated by history as Lincoln has been.

[QUOTE=rogue;558366]I do believe that Trump and many of his followers expect him to be vindicated by history as Lincoln has been.[/QUOTE]People who think they're entitled to your own facts [i]would[/i] think that.

[b]SEE[/b] "fool's paradise," "cloud-cuckoo-land."

I'm not sure how many cultists there are in countries outside the USA, but judging by recent surveys, and comments about the latest so-called "debate," the consensus seems to be that this country is going down the tubes, fast.

As to debates, Abraham Lincoln made his name by debating Stephen Douglas.

As President, Lincoln succeeded in his primary objective of preserving the union. The dissolution of the union has arguably been under way for some time, and may be inevitable, but should it occur under the current Administration, the complete undoing of Lincoln's legacy by the Republican Party (of which Lincoln was a founding member) will be this Administration's greatest achievement.

Neither Biden or Trump will be the best choice. Both men are in their 70s. Barack Obama is much younger but he's out of his turns. Wish there can be some strong candidates coming up 4 years later.

[QUOTE=tuckerkao;558550]Neither Biden or Trump will be the best choice. Both men are in their 70s...[/QUOTE]

There is a decent chance one or the other would die while in office. Trump is 74 and Biden is 77. I believe the last POTUS to die from natural causes while in office was Franklin Roosevelt in 1945 at age 63. WWII wore him down to nearly nothing.

Perhaps there should be an age limit on who can run. How about no one at, or over, age 65. Anyone reaching age 65 while in office would complete their term. If re-elected, Trump would be 78 when he is done. Biden would be 81. If Biden were to be re-elected to a second term, then he would finish at 85. Many felt John McCain was too old when he ran for office in 2008. He was 71 at that time.

[QUOTE=tuckerkao;558550]Neither Biden or Trump will be the best choice. Both men are in their 70s. Barack Obama is much younger but he's out of his turns. Wish there can be some strong candidates coming up 4 years later.[/QUOTE]We hope that Mr. Obama is appointed to the SC someday.

[QUOTE=storm5510;558557] I believe the last POTUS to die from natural causes while in office was Franklin Roosevelt in 1945 at age 63. WWII wore him down to nearly nothing.[/quote]A stroke from a burst aneurysm can strike younger people without major stress (Grant Imahara for example). FDR had a pre-existing condition of polio. Churchill was much older than FDR and was in a more stressful location.

[quote]If re-elected, Trump would be 78 when he is done. Biden would be 81. If Biden were to be re-elected to a second term, then he would finish at 85.[/QUOTE]US life expectancy for a white male of 75 is 11.2 more years. For an 80 year old, 8.3. (2017 data)
[url]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_07-508.pdf[/url]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;558562]A stroke from a burst aneurysm can strike younger people without major stress (Grant Imahara for example). FDR had a pre-existing condition of polio.[/quote]
FDR also had high blood pressure, for which there was no effective drug treatment at the time. He was also a smoker (up to two packs a day). I'm not sure what was known then about how bad smoking is for someone with high blood pressure.

The incumbent C-I-C does not smoke or drink. The only "pre-existing conditions" of a medical nature I am aware of are bone spurs, which may have gone away like magic after they benefited his health by keeping from being sent to Vietnam, and obesity, which he treats by claiming he's an inch taller than his NY driver's license says he is.

Many of Biden's detractors claim he has dementia, but I don't think he does.

Both candidates have noticeable cognitive decline, which is a normal part of aging.

[QUOTE=storm5510;558557]There is a decent chance one or the other would die while in office.[/quote]If you think it reasonably likely either candidate would fail to survive his term, it seems to me your next consideration is, which of the two vice-presidential candidates you would prefer succeed to the office.

[quote]Perhaps there should be an age limit on who can run. How about no one at, or over, age 65. Anyone reaching age 65 while in office would complete their term. If re-elected, Trump would be 78 when he is done. Biden would be 81. If Biden were to be re-elected to a second term, then he would finish at 85. Many felt John McCain was too old when he ran for office in 2008. He was 71 at that time.[/QUOTE]
I don't think a fixed age limit would help, certainly not if the point is to avoid having presidents die of natural causes while in office.

The real issue is the candidate's fitness to serve. Some conditions, though not medical in nature and not age-related, may be relevant. Say, just to pull an example from thin air, narcissistic personality disorder.

[QUOTE]Both candidates have noticeable cognitive decline, which is a normal part of aging.[/QUOTE]I have cognitive decline which [U][B]I[/B][/U] notice at sixty-seven-plus years. I'm not running for prez, though. I was irritated that Biden did not push back sooner. I don't like him at all, but we are in the classic two-party trap of Worst and Worster.

With Biden there would not be the level of overt insanity which Rump spews. Joe is of a more classic mode of soothing platitudes, blithe promises, corporate coddling, and endless wars.

[QUOTE=storm5510;558557]the last POTUS to die from natural causes <...> was Franklin Roosevelt[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;558562]A stroke from a burst aneurysm can strike younger people without major stress (Grant Imahara for example). FDR had a pre-existing condition of polio.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558567]FDR also had high blood pressure, for which there was no effective drug treatment at the time. He was also a smoker (up to two packs a day).[/QUOTE]
:ermm: What are you guys trying to cover?:question: :innocent:

This may be for the silly jokes thread, but because you are discussing age...

(from the web, plus a bit of editing)

An old man and his wife were getting on a bit, the old man's hearing had gone a while ago but now things had stopped working downstairs too.
The wife said to him "Gerald" for that was his name, "Gerald, I have womanly needs, you need to go to doctor. Maybe we can get you some Viagra".
"What?" replied Gerald
"Doctor!" shouted his wife...
So later that day at the doctor's office. The wife explains the marital problem that poor Gerald is having.
"Hmm this is serious" said the doctor.
"What?!" asked Gerald
"He said it's serious!" replied the wife.
The doctor continued "I am going to need to do some tests. I'll need the full works; a blood sample, a urine sample, a faecal sample and a sperm sample".
"What he says?!" asked Gerald....
The wife replied "HE NEEDS YOUR UNDERPANTS!"

hrmmm
Donald and Melania seem to have caugh the coronavirus.
[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/us/politics/trump-covid.html[/url]

[QUOTE=firejuggler;558580]hrmmm
Donald and Melania seem to have caugh the coronavirus.
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/us/politics/trump-covid.html[/URL][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the news. May they pass it to Pence, Pompeo, Devos, and Barr. I hope they don't all get TOO sick: just sick ENOUGH. :devil:

IMO, it would be a good thing for this country if one of them got very sick, not necessarily enough to be put onto a ventilator, but sick enough for Trump to finally admit how dangerous this virus can be.

Unfortunately if they have no symptoms or only mild symptoms the Republicans will continue to claim that the virus is no worse than a cold (fake news) or that hydrochloroquin saved the president or that his faith (:lol:) protected him.

We should expect his supporters to use this "as proof" that masks are ineffective.

I'm waiting for someone on the right to claim that the Democrats or Chinese infiltrated a rally in order to give it to him.

[QUOTE=rogue;558601]IMO, it would be a good thing for this country if one of them got very sick, not necessarily enough to be put onto a ventilator, but sick enough for Trump to finally admit how dangerous this virus can be.

Unfortunately if they have no symptoms or only mild symptoms the Republicans will continue to claim that the virus is no worse than a cold (fake news) or that hydrochloroquin saved the president or that his faith (:lol:) protected him.

We should expect his supporters to use this "as proof" that masks are ineffective.

I'm waiting for someone on the right to claim that the Democrats or Chinese infiltrated a rally in order to give it to him.[/QUOTE]
(1) It seems he admitted to Bob Woodward -- in [i]recorded interviews[/i] -- that he believed the virus was dangerous, but downplayed it publicly so as not to panic people. When the interviews were made public, he denied having said he'd downplayed it.

(2),(3) :tu: Agree.

(4) Interesting idea, but I doubt it. Supporters are loathe to admit the possibility of rallies being responsible for transmitting the virus. If anyone suggested such a thing WRT Herman Cain and the Tulsa rally, I haven't heard about it. Besides, the [url=https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-elections-melania-trump-michael-pence-f6ba3a16ab9b74b161a3a7211248e97e]AP story[/url] says [quote]On Friday, Trump had been scheduled to receive an intelligence briefing, attend a fundraiser and hold another campaign rally in Sanford, Florida. But just after 1 a.m., the White House released a revised schedule with only one event: a phone call on "COVID-19 support to vulnerable seniors."

Trump's announcement came hours after he confirmed that Hope Hicks, one of his most trusted and longest-serving aides, had been diagnosed with the virus Thursday. Hicks began feeling mild symptoms during the plane ride home from a rally in Minnesota on Wednesday evening, according to an administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity to disclose private information. She was isolated from other passengers aboard the plane, the person said.[/quote]

Time to bring back an oldie-but-goodie:

[QUOTE=rogue on 2020-03-13;539647]So what are the chances of:
[LIST][*]Trump not contracting the virus and the evangelicals claiming it to be proof of his godhood.[*]Trump contracting the virus and blaming the liberals, MSM, Chinese, Mexicans, etc.[*]Trump contracting the virus but surviving and the evangelicals claiming it is because they prayed for him.[*]Trump dying from the virus and the evangelicals painting him as a martyr.[/LIST][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;558562]A stroke from a burst aneurysm can strike younger people without major stress (Grant Imahara for example). FDR had a pre-existing condition of polio. Churchill was much older than FDR and was in a more stressful location[/QUOTE]

True. Washington D.C. was not being bombed like London was. Roosevelt was also a chain-smoker.

I saw a comment on 45's "less testing equals fewer cases" nonsense:[INDENT]"So, if Herman Cain hadn't gotten tested he would still be alive?"

[/INDENT]

The initial [url=https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-melania-trump-archive-dfc0356d42c4bef695a9756815c23614]Statement from Trump's doctor[/url] said (my emphasis)[quote]This evening I received confirmation that both President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump have tested positive for the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

The President and First Lady are both well at this time, [b]and they plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence.[/b][/quote]

A little while ago, Special Reports came on, saying the president is being transferred to Walter Reed Medical Center. Video of him getting on Marine One showed him walking apparently normally.

Whether the change in plans was prompted by medical developments or campaign strategy is more than I can say.

Oh Jeez Louise, People! This is just another segment of his regular physical. It will probably reveal that he is even more superbly healthy, robust, energetic, and much taller and NOT AT ALL EVEN A LITTLE BIT over the ideal weight for someone with his robust, athletic build.

[quote]Tonight, @FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER![/quote]
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020

That's funny, I didn't hear anything about the First Lady going to Walter Reed. Huh. I wonder...

<wavy lines>

"Dr. Conley? This is Melania. Listen, it's bad enough being cooped up in here with what feels like a nasty cold, but Donald is complaining, cursing and screaming NONSTOP, and I can't get any rest. Is there any way you can get him out of here?"

<wavy lines>

[url=https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-archive-d2c6ac6876be3e21e1cbc458e4866633]Trump gets experimental drug aimed at curbing severe illness[/url][quote]The experimental antibody drug given to President Donald Trump has been called one of the most promising approaches to preventing serious illness from a COVID-19 infection.

Its maker, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals Inc., said the company agreed to supply a single dose, given through an IV, for Trump at the request of his physician [b]under "compassionate use" provisions, when an experimental medicine is provided on a case-by-case emergency basis[/b], while studies of it continue.
<snip>
Trump’s physician, Dr. Sean Conley, said late Friday that Trump had also been given the antiviral drug remdesivir at the military hospital. The Gilead Sciences drug has been shown to help some COVID-19 patients recover faster.

Earlier, Conley said Trump also was taking zinc, vitamin D, an antacid called famotidine, melatonin and aspirin. None of those have been proven to be effective against COVID-19.

[b]Trump apparently is not receiving hydroxychloroquine, a drug he widely promoted that has been shown in many studies to be ineffective for preventing or treating COVID-19.[/b][/quote]

A spoonful of Chlorox helps the temperature go down,
The temperature down,
The temperature go down.

Just spoonful of Chlorox helps the temperature go down,
In a Presidential way.

[QUOTE=storm5510;558612]True. Washington D.C. was not being bombed like London was. Roosevelt was also a chain-smoker.[/QUOTE]Churchiill was an obese alcoholic with a cigar habit.

I read this story ( only the headline is necessary, really ) that Merriam-Webster said that searches for the word "schadenfreude" went ballistic:

[URL="https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/merriam-webster-reports-30-500-140542986.html"]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/merriam-webster-reports-30-500-140542986.html[/URL]

Also, note that this story was under Yahoo's "Entertainment" section.

[QUOTE=tServo;558740]I read this story ( only the headline is necessary, really ) that Merriam-Webster said that searches for the word "schadenfreude" went ballistic:

[URL="https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/merriam-webster-reports-30-500-140542986.html"]https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/merriam-webster-reports-30-500-140542986.html[/URL]

Also, note that this story was under Yahoo's "Entertainment" section.[/QUOTE]Huh, that's interesting. It might indicate that a lot of people who aren't familiar with the word just saw it for the first time.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558746]Huh, that's interesting. It might indicate that a lot of people who aren't familiar with the word just saw it for the first time.[/QUOTE]
That was the word of the day for Friday.
Today's word of the day is "October Surprise"

It appears that the White House now has more people in hospital with CV19 than does New Zealand.

[QUOTE=xilman;558759]It appears that the White House now has more people in hospital with CV19 than does New Zealand.[/QUOTE]Or Vancouver Island in Canada.

[QUOTE=xilman;558759]It appears that the White House now has more people in hospital with CV19 than does New Zealand.[/QUOTE]
:davar55::tu:

Apparently some people are claiming that since so few prominent Democrats have the virus but many high profile Republicans do, that the Democrats deliberately gave the virus to them.

[QUOTE=rogue;558768]Apparently some people are claiming that since so few prominent Democrats have the virus but many high profile Republicans do, that the Democrats deliberately gave the virus to them.[/QUOTE]Let me see if I have this straight: Democrats gave the Republicans a disease which they [i]didn't have[/i].

I've got just the place for "some people." Some nice cushy rooms -- cushions on the floors, walls, and ceilings, in fact.

Dr. Sardonicus, Chief of Client Placement Services
Frederick Charles Krueger Institution for the Criminally Insane
666 Elm Street NW
Washington, DC 20001

[QUOTE=rogue;558768]Apparently some people are claiming that since so few prominent Democrats have the virus but many high profile Republicans do, that the Democrats deliberately gave the virus to them.[/QUOTE]


Because "masks don't work and are against muh freedomz".


It was somewhat predictable that the group that refuses to take precautions would have a higher infection rate.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;558796]Let me see if I have this straight: Democrats gave the Republicans a disease which they [I]didn't have[/I].[/QUOTE]
Nope. They gave it already, that's why they don't have it anymore.

Like the little boy to his father: "Dad, did I take my intelligence from you, or from mom?" and the dad replies, "I think you got it from your mother, I still have mine"....

[QUOTE=rogue;558768]Apparently some people are claiming that since so few prominent Democrats have the virus but many high profile Republicans do, that the Democrats deliberately gave the virus to them.[/QUOTE]
:cmd:

Pretty fly for a white guy: insect on Mike Pence's head upstages vice-president
 

[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/07/fly-mike-pence-vice-presidential-debate-pink-eye[/URL]
[QUOTE]Ahead of Wednesday’s vice-presidential debate, the buzz was around whether Kamala Harris or Mike Pence would turn in a standout performance.

Instead, the unexpected star of the show was a fly, which landed on Pence’s head and sat there, seemingly carefree, for a full two minutes.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]@BillKristol
My debate ranking:
1. Senator Harris.
2. The fly.
3. Vice President Pence.
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]A fly landing on Pence’s head while he’s saying “systemic racism isn’t real” is the universe’s way of saying “this is bullshit.”[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Ahead of Wednesday's vice-presidential debate, the buzz was around whether Kamala Harris or Mike Pence would turn in a standout performance.

Instead, the unexpected star of the show was a fly, which landed on Pence's head and sat there, seemingly carefree, for a full two minutes.[/QUOTE]That fly is telling us something -- Mike Pence is a demon from hell!

I imagine a lot of Indiana residents would confirm this, but here's the clincher:

Back in 2016, Alex Jones said that Hillary was literally a demon from hell and smelled of sulfur, then suggested the same of Barack Obama by saying he stank and attracted flies.

What greater proof could you ask for?

[QUOTE]Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me, for me, for me![/QUOTE]Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody
[QUOTE]Ba’al-zebub, also called Beelzebub or Beelzebul is known as the lord of the flies.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.deliriumsrealm.com/beelzebub/[/URL]

[QUOTE=kladner;559264]Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody
[URL]https://www.deliriumsrealm.com/beelzebub/[/URL][/QUOTE]
You misheard the lyrics, which is a very common phenomenon for this song.

"Beelzebub has a special sideboard for me."

"Is this the real life, is this just Battersea?"

"Spare him his life for his poor sausages"

"Dubya Bush! Dubya Bush! Will you do the fandango?"

"Get your lips to me baby!"

Several more examples can be found with a simple search.

I'm waiting for the next conspiracy theory that the fly is actually a miniature drone created by the Democrats in an attempt to fluster Pence. Better yet, that it was the deep state using the drone fly to read Pence's notes and communicate them to Harris. He wasn't flustered by the fly, so he clearly won the debate.

I have heard that fans of Saturday Night Live want Jeff Goldblum to appear so that he can once again play the role of [URL="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091064"]The Fly[/URL].

[QUOTE=rogue;559274]<snip>
He wasn't flustered by the fly, so he clearly won the debate.
<snip>[/QUOTE]Mike Pence [i]had a fly crawling around on his head for over a minute[/i] and apparently [i]didn't even notice[/i]. Think about it. If a fly landed on [i]your[/i] head, wouldn't [i]you[/i] notice? Even back when I had a full head of hair, and kept it cut longer than Mike Pence has his, when [i]I[/i] had any insect much bigger than a mosquito land on [i]my[/i] head, [i]I[/i] noticed it and went to brush it off [i]tout de suite[/i]. (The only [i]flies[/i] I remember landing on my head were Deer Flies (genus [i]Chrysops[/i], "Golden eye"), which are considerably larger than houseflies. I'd usually notice one homing in on me before it actually landed; and when it [i]did[/i] land, it usually managed to deliver a vicious bite as its last act before I crushed it.)

So why didn't Mike Pence notice, or appear to notice?

For a demon from hell, of course, having flies on one's body may be so commonplace as not to be noticeable. But there are other possibilities. Has he been hitting the Botox too hard, perhaps? Or is he among [i]The Walking Dead?[/i]

Deer Flies are nasty and fast. :max:

I thought maybe Pence's hair is so glued into shape that it is like a helmet. A fly landing made no impression. Or he was showing how totally imperturbable he is in the face of overwhelming threat.

[LEFT]Finally, the best explanation I've seen for the fly is simple: Pence is a Shithead.

Well, afterthought The fly [U]is[/U] a drone. But, it is controlling him through brain waves. This accounts for his flat affect and wooden demeanor.
[/LEFT]

[QUOTE=kladner;559383]Well, afterthought The fly [U]is[/U] a drone. But, it is controlling him through brain waves. This accounts for his flat affect and wooden demeanor.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps it was just a fly, but was controlling Pence through brain waves, by dint of its superior intellect.

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;559431]Perhaps it was just a fly, but was controlling Pence through brain waves, by dint of its superior intellect.[/QUOTE]
:lol:

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;559431]Perhaps it was just a fly, but was controlling Pence through brain waves, by dint of its superior intellect.[/QUOTE]

Ratatouille (2007)

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;559297]Mike Pence [i]had a fly crawling around on his head for over a minute[/i] and apparently [i]didn't even notice[/i]. Think about it. If a fly landed on [i]your[/i] head, wouldn't [i]you[/i] notice? Even back when I had a full head of hair, and kept it cut longer than Mike Pence has his, when [i]I[/i] had any insect much bigger than a mosquito land on [i]my[/i] head, [i]I[/i] noticed it and went to brush it off [i]tout de suite[/i]. (The only [i]flies[/i] I remember landing on my head were Deer Flies (genus [i]Chrysops[/i], "Golden eye"), which are considerably larger than houseflies. I'd usually notice one homing in on me before it actually landed; and when it [i]did[/i] land, it usually managed to deliver a vicious bite as its last act before I crushed it.)

So why didn't Mike Pence notice, or appear to notice?

For a demon from hell, of course, having flies on one's body may be so commonplace as not to be noticeable. But there are other possibilities. Has he been hitting the Botox too hard, perhaps? Or is he among [i]The Walking Dead?[/i][/QUOTE]
That reminds me of my trip to Uluru last July. There are websites which promote the climb (i.e., [url]https://uluruclimb.wordpress.com/blog/[/url] ) or other outdoor activities that can be done there, but what most of those sites fail to mention are the notorious flies that permeate the Australian Outback. Even during the Australian winter, it sometimes seems that you can't take two steps outside without being swarmed by those creatures.

I took the attached picture on my trip. The only good thing about those annoying critters is that they aren't active at night and typically don't go indoors. Believe it or not, there were no flies in my hotel room or in my rental car. [spoiler]Or maybe they were on my head, and I didn't notice them?[/spoiler]

edit: I went during the "quiet season" for flies. This is how it looks like in the Australian fall / late summer:
[url]https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-05-15/outback-fly-influx-captured-on-video/9764018[/url]
[url]https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-04-26/fly-population-booms-on-outback-cattle-stations/12180742[/url]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-pandemics-public-health-new-york-e321f4c9098b4db4dd6b1eda76a5179e]White House puts 'politicals' at CDC to try to control info[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) — The Trump White House has installed two political operatives at the nation's top public health agency to try to control the information it releases about the coronavirus pandemic as the administration seeks to paint a positive outlook, sometimes at odds with the scientific evidence.

The two appointees assigned to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Atlanta headquarters in June have no public health background. They have instead been tasked with keeping an eye on Dr. Robert Redfield, the agency director, as well as scientists, according to a half-dozen CDC and administration officials who spoke to The Associated Press on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal government affairs.

The appointments were part of a push to get more "politicals" into the CDC to help control messaging after a handful of leaks were "upsetting the apple cart," said an administration official.

When the two appointees showed up in Atlanta, their roles were a mystery to senior CDC staff, the people said. They had not even been assigned offices. Eventually one, Nina Witkofsky, became acting chief of staff, an influential role as Redfield's right hand. The other, her deputy Chester "Trey" Moeller, also began sitting in on scientific meetings, the sources said.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;556543][url=https://apnews.com/01d363af809beb6cf32a92598313d2a5]DOJ asks to defend Trump in rape accuser's defamation suit[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) — The Justice Department is asking to take over President Donald Trump's defense in a defamation lawsuit from a writer who accused him of rape, and federal lawyers asked a court Tuesday to allow a move that could put the American people on the hook for any money she might be awarded.

After New York state courts turned down Trump's request to delay E. Jean Carroll's suit, Justice Department lawyers filed court papers aiming to shift the case into federal court and to substitute the U.S. for Trump as the defendant. That means the federal government, rather than Trump himself, might have to pay damages if any are awarded.[/quote]I will consider myself fortunate if this doesn't give me a fatal case of the dry heaves.[/QUOTE][url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-new-york-lawsuits-manhattan-courts-dcbf389facc53a3edc261487acf3124b]Trump rape accuser 'stunned' at DOJ no-show at court hearing[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) — A woman who has accused President Donald Trump of raping her in the 1990s said she was stunned and speechless after the Justice Department on Wednesday turned down an opportunity to make oral arguments on whether Trump can substitute the United States for himself as the defendant in her defamation lawsuit.

E. Jean Carroll watched from a seat in the top row of a jury box as U.S. District Judge Lewis A. Kaplan gave a government lawyer a chance to argue by phone, after the lawyer who was supposed to argue in person was banned from the courthouse because he traveled from Virginia. New York requires visitors from Virginia to quarantine for 14 days.

William Lane, a Department of Justice civil division attorney, told the judge the government would rest on its papers, meaning it would rely solely on already submitted written arguments.

"I'm stunned, stunned, and actually speechless, which is unusual," Carroll told reporters outside the courthouse.

Attorney Roberta Kaplan, an attorney for Carroll, said it was a "shocking scenario for the government to just, essentially surrender, and not even try to argue the case."
<snip>[/quote]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-counterterrorism-christopher-miller-mark-esper-634cd9a8cc00690b7ec8993b8bd64719]Trump fires Esper as Pentagon chief after election defeat[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper on Monday, an unprecedented move by a president struggling to accept election defeat and angry at a Pentagon leader he believes wasn't loyal enough.

The decision was widely expected as Trump had grown increasingly unhappy with Esper over the summer, including sharp differences between them over the use of the military during the civil unrest in June. But the move could unsettle international allies and Pentagon leadership and injects another element of uncertainty to a rocky transition period as Joe Biden prepares to assume the presidency.
<snip>
Trump announced the news in a tweet, saying that "effective immediately" Christopher Miller, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center, will serve as acting secretary, sidestepping the department's No.2-ranking official, Deputy Defense Secretary David Norquist.
<snip>[/quote]

Maybe this, on top of losing the election, will make his head explode.

[url=https://apnews.com/article/new-york-immigration-deferred-action-for-childhood-arrivals-program-6da7a068fd66722136fc1fd5eb82098b]Judge: DHS head didn't have authority to suspend DACA[/url][quote]NEW YORK (AP) — A federal judge in New York ruled Saturday that Acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Chad Wolf assumed his position unlawfully, a determination that invalidated Wolf's suspension of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which shields young people from deportation.

"DHS failed to follow the order of succession as it was lawfully designated," U.S. District Judge Nicholas Garaufis wrote. "Therefore, the actions taken by purported Acting Secretaries, who were not properly in their roles according to the lawful order of succession, were taken without legal authority."
<snip>
In Garaufis' ruling Saturday, the judge wrote that DHS didn't follow an order of succession established when then-Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen resigned in April 2019. Kevin McAleenan, who succeeded Nielsen until he resigned in October 2019, also didn't have statutory authority to hold the position, Garaufis wrote.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;554426]Will Nov-Jan be[URL="https://youtu.be/M11SvDtPBhA?t=62"] pardon season in the USA[/URL]?[/QUOTE]

And so it begins:
[URL="https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/823893821/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russia-contact"]https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/823893821/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russia-contact [/URL]

After the court session I mentioned in [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=560627&postcount=1340]this post[/url] when the DOJ declined to give oral arguments in defense of its motion to substitute the government for the president as Defendant in a defamation suit, I somehow missed hearing about the judge denying the motion less than a week later. The order denying the motion is dated October 27[sup]th[/sup]. Of course, that wasn't the end of it...

[url=https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/25/politics/e-jean-carroll-appeal/index.html]DOJ appeals ruling that said it can't take the place of Trump in E. Jean Carroll defamation suit[/url][quote](CNN)The Justice Department is appealing a court ruling that denied its move to substitute itself for President Donald Trump as the defendant in the defamation lawsuit brought by E. Jean Carroll, the former magazine columnist who has accused the President of raping her.

The appeal is a sign that the Justice Department is continuing to back Trump in court even after he lost the presidential election.

Last month, Judge Lewis Kaplan rejected the Justice Department's attempt to replace Trump in the lawsuit. The Justice Department sought to intervene in the case, which, if approved, would have likely led to the dismissal of the case because the government cannot be sued for defamation.

"We are not at all surprised that the current Department of Justice, which filed its motion to intervene in E Jean Carroll's case at the request of the White House, is appealing Judge Kaplan's decision," Carroll's attorney, Roberta Kaplan, said in a statement.

She added, "From the very start of this case, Donald Trump's number one goal has been to avoid discovery and cause delay."[/quote]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;564404]And so it begins:
[URL="https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/823893821/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russia-contact"]https://www.npr.org/2020/11/25/823893821/trump-pardons-michael-flynn-who-pleaded-guilty-to-lying-about-russia-contact [/URL][/QUOTE]

I'm curious as to how many pardons are for sale and for how much. If Trump truly has $400m in debt, I would not put it past him to ask for $$$ before granting pardons.

The following is lifted from Facebook. It is a masterpiece of nasty name-calling on the departing gang of criminals.
[QUOTE]//From UK novelist HARI KUNZRU

"Mike Pence, you repressed joyless would-be witchfinder, every time you spoke you always looked like you were straining to expel an enormous bolus of your own hypocrisy from your clenched sphincter.

“Betsy DeVos, you blandly foolish soulless entitled child-stealing witch, rotting like a corpse inside your Chanel suit.

“All the generals, you spineless buzz-cut phallus-brained plastic Spartans fawning and wriggling to distract yourself from your moral cowardice.

“Kayleigh McEnenay, you evacuated husk of a mean-girl cheerleader, the cavity where your heart once was is pumped full of spite and moronic lies.

“Bill Barr, you vast pompous pus-filled bladder of casuistry, you are an enemy of justice, bloated with resentment and cruelty, wobbling like a jelly at the feet of the oligarchs.

“Jared Kushner, you vacuous dainty preening overpromoted nub of mediocrity, squeezed like an entitled smear of toothpaste into a silk suit bought with tear-stained dollars wrung out of the suffering tenants of your slum apartments.

“Ivanka Trump, you monstrous slug of vanity, you infantile ninny so marinaded in self-regard that in your pea brain you believe we ought to love you for your crimes.

“Mike Pompeo, you bubble, you booby, you flatulent zero, that roiling in your ample gut that you mistake for world shaking significance is just the acid reflux of irrelevancy.

“Don Junior, you scabrous single-nostriled unloved elephant-murdering human wreckage, vibrating with bitterness and impotent rage at all the opportunities you’ve squandered.

“Sarah Sanders, you crude hulking beetle-browed bully, working your multiple chins as you masticated another stinking quid of falsity, spitting again and again on the people you were supposed to inform.

“Interlude: all you staffers and interns, so eager to crunch your way in your shiny new work shoes over the bodies of the poor and powerless, I smite you and cast you out one by one.

“Eric Trump, you pallid clammy suppurating nocturnal semi-human grub, your absence of charisma is your only notable trait and the act of flushing you from memory will so be smooth and painless that in a month people will find it hard to picture your moon face.

“Rudy Giuliani, you capering cartoonish skull-faced bag of graft and corruption, too stupid even to ask who’s pulling your strings just so long as you can cake your crusty face in tv make-up and clack your jaw at a camera.

“And of course Stephen Miller, you weeping pustule upon the social body, you dreg, you homunculus, you noxious slime felched from the gaping cavity of Jim Crow, one day may you find yourself walking barefoot across hot sand, desperate for water, crying for your missing child.

“With that I'll rest a while, and go to find a street corner to dance on."//

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kladner;566776]The following is lifted from Facebook. It is a masterpiece of nasty name-calling on the departing gang of criminals.[/QUOTE]I'll see your quote of the name-calling Facebook post, and will raise you one dose of reality:

[url=https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-conspiracy-theories-elections-william-barr-6ff3dbff74aa79ee4d81f9d87b6dce9c]AP sources: Trump floats Sidney Powell as special counsel[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump floated naming lawyer Sidney Powell, who was booted from his campaign’s legal team after pushing unfounded conspiracy theories, as a special counsel investigating allegations of voter fraud as he grasps for straws to stay in power.

During a Friday meeting at the White House, Trump went as far as discussing getting Powell security clearance, according to two people familiar with the meeting, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private conversation.[/quote]

And so it continues...
 

[url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-campaigns-duncan-hunter-russia-87bf992ea9bece8eee58ac8ecf1f1bd6]Trump pardons 15, including Republican allies[/url]

And several war criminals...
[quote]In the group announced Tuesday night were four former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad that left more a dozen Iraqi civilians dead and caused an international uproar over the use of private security guards in a war zone.

Supporters of Nicholas Slatten, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard, the former contractors at Blackwater Worldwide, had lobbied for pardons, arguing that the men had been excessively punished in an investigation and prosecution they said was tainted by problems and withheld exculpatory evidence. All four were serving lengthy prison sentences.[/quote]

[url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-politics-defense-policy-bills-babbd8bbce66db1b1b28b0f4f3cb3f13]Trump vetoes defense bill, setting up possible override vote[/url][quote]WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Wednesday vetoed the annual defense policy bill, following through on threats to veto a measure that has broad bipartisan support in Congress and potentially setting up the first override vote of his presidency.

The bill affirms 3% pay raises for U.S. troops and authorizes more than $740 billion in military programs and construction.

The action came while Trump was holed up at the White House, stewing about his election loss and escalating his standoff with Republicans as he pushed fraudulent conspiracy theories and tried to pressure them to back his efforts to overturn the results.

The House was poised to return Monday, and the Senate on Tuesday, to consider votes to override the president's veto.[/quote]It seems he's now off to Mar-a-Lago for Christmas.

I would be [i]very[/i] surprised if Congress did [i]not[/i] override this veto.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;554426]Will Nov-Jan be[URL="https://youtu.be/M11SvDtPBhA?t=62"] pardon season in the USA[/URL]?[/QUOTE]
More of them:
[URL="https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner"]https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner [/URL]
[QUOTE]President Trump issued several more pardons on Wednesday evening, including to former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, Republican operative Roger Stone and Charles Kushner, the father-in-law of Ivanka Trump.

In total, Trump pardoned 26 people and commuted the sentences of three more people — the second consecutive night of what is expected to be a flurry of acts of clemency before he leaves office.[/QUOTE]

IMO we get a good idea of the kind of criminality the Great Leaver condones - sadism under color of authority, fraud, and tax evasion. From [url=https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-robert-mueller-paul-manafort-elections-fbedec41225a47f2e3fef42fd628b734]The AP story[/url] I have selected some which may not be as well known as some of his chums.
[quote]STEPHANIE MOHR
The former Maryland police officer was convicted in 2001 of violating a homeless man's civil rights by letting her police dog attack him even though he had surrendered.
<snip>

GARY BRUGMAN
The former U.S. Border Patrol agent was convicted of striking and violating the civil rights of a man who had crossed the U.S. border illegally.
<snip>
The White House said his pardon was supported by several Republican members of Congress and conservative media personalities, including Laura Ingraham, Sara Carter, Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs, along with former New York City Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik, who also was convicted of a federal crime and pardoned by Trump.

MARY MCCARTY
<snip>
When she was convicted, prosecutors said she had misused her position as a county commissioner to "personally enrich herself, her husband, and their associates through a series of municipal bond transactions" and by receiving gifts and gratuities from people doing business with the Board of County Commissioners.

The White House said her pardon was supported by former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi and Christopher Ruddy, the CEO of Newsmax Media.

MARK SILJANDER
The former Southwest Michigan congressman was convicted of obstructing justice and failing to register as a foreign agent. He was sentenced to serve more than a year in prison after being accused of accepting stolen funds on behalf of a Missouri charity with alleged terrorism ties.
<snip>

MARK SHAPIRO AND IRVING STITSKY
Trump commuted Shapiro and Stitsky's sentences after they were convicted in federal court in New York of defrauding more than 250 people in a $23 million real estate scam. Both men were convicted and sentenced to serve 85 years in federal prison. Prosecutors said Stitsky and Shapiro also diverted millions of dollars of investor funds for their own benefit.
<snip>

JAMES BATMASIAN
Batmasian is a real-estate investor and runs property management companies in South Florida. He pleaded guilty to cheating the federal government out of more than $250,000 by failing to pay federal taxes for employees at his company.
<snip>[/quote]

There has been speculation in the news recently about the fate of the COVID relief package, which was appended to a "must pass" government funding bill designed to avoid a "government shut-down" on Monday. It involves an unusual use of Executive power.

The Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 7 paragraph 2, last sentence reads (my emphasis):[quote]If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, [b]unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.[/b][/quote]

The emphasized portion describes what is commonly referred to as a "pocket veto." If Congress passes a bill within ten days of adjournment (not counting Sundays), the President can just sit on it, and the bill dies.

It is being speculated that this may be the fate awaiting the COVID relief package. It depends on when the bill is officially received by the president, and what he actually does.

In 1864, Congress enacted a very punitive version of Reconstruction known as the Wade-Davis Bill. But the bill was passed just before adjournment, and President Abraham Lincoln killed it with a pocket veto.

I remember hearing about a pocket veto on the news in the 1980's. It was a bill setting Federal regulations for the manufacture of appliances or something like that, and was said at the time to have been to only bill in the history of the Republic ever to have been passed unanimously by both houses of Congress. President Reagan killed the bill with a pocket veto.

I remember a [i]non[/i]-use of the pocket veto at the State level one year when (the now-late) Jim Thompson was Governor. During the lame duck session following the November 1978 elections, the Illinois Legislature voted a pay raise for themselves and other State employees. Rather than killing it by pocket veto, Governor Thompson actually vetoed the bill immediately, giving the Legislature the opportunity to override his veto, which they promptly did.

[url]https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/24/opinions/blackwater-defendants-pardon-trump-opinion-oconnor/index.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;567372][url]https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/24/opinions/blackwater-defendants-pardon-trump-opinion-oconnor/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]Always good to have the details. At France 24 we find [url=https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201223-cheaper-than-water-iraqis-angry-but-unsurprised-over-blackwater-pardons]'Cheaper than water': Iraqis angry but unsurprised over Blackwater pardons[/url]:[quote]All but one of the victims' families accepted compensation from Blackwater, a lawyer wounded in the attack told AFP previously.

Those hurt received up to $50,000, while the relatives of those killed were offered $100,000.

Haitham al-Rubaie, who lost his son Ahmad and wife Mahasin, was the only one to turn down the offers.

Ahmad was a 20-year-old medical student, a former classmate said on Wednesday.

"All of us at school were devastated and heartbroken," said the classmate, who asked for her name to be withheld so she could speak freely.

"Times were really tough... and to hear that he and his mom were both murdered added to our sense of desperation."

She said she expected Ahmad would have been a successful physician -- like his mother -- had he lived.

"It is an utter outrage, but it is also not surprising by any means. The Americans have never approached us Iraqis as equals," the former classmate said.

"As far as they are concerned, our blood is cheaper than water and our demands for justice and accountability are merely a nuisance."[/quote]Alas, there is no way to undo this disannulment of justice under law wrought by the lame duck in the White House.

I have been ashamed from time to time of American policies and decisions, but I was sickened when I heard about the Nisour Square Massacre. This pardon is a more direct and personal affront than policy decisions. It is an absolute disavowal of the American ideal of "equal justice under law." Four men who slaughtered unarmed civilians with automatic weapons and explosives, who are utterly unrepentant, have been allowed to walk free, the law blinded to their crimes. Betsy DeVos, [strike]Destroyer[/strike] Secretary of Education thanks to Mike Pence, is sister to Erik Prince, who founded Blackwater. [W.C. Fields voice]It must be a coincidence...[/W.C. Fields voice]

"Make America Great Again?" We have our work cut out for us...

A December 22 article in [url=https://thebulwark.com/the-military-would-not-participate-in-a-coup-trump-cant-understand-why/]The Bulwark[/url] said:[quote]In the unlikely scenario that Trump were to issue an order to use the military to prevent the transfer of power, the order would go to the secretary of defense. In the unlikely scenario that the secretary were to decide to enforce the order (which, it should go without saying, would be illegal), he would relay the order to commander of the Northern Command, Gen. Glen VanHerck. There, VanHerck would consult with his team of legal advisers, who would inform him that the order was a grotesque violation of the Constitution, and VenHerck would refuse the order and send it back to the secretary of defense. Because, as Gen. Milley said, VenHeck's loyalty lies with the Constitution, not a king or queen, and certainly not Donald Trump.[/quote]The very next day, the Lame-Duck-in-Chief vetoed the National Defense Authorization Act. So now, I reckon things would go more like this if he sent the order to Acting Defense Secretary Chris Miller: Miller would reply, "You want the military to keep you in power? After you just vetoed everybody's paychecks for all of next year? You can take a flying :censored: at the moon. Sir."

The threat of a "pocket veto" of the COVID relief bill described [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=567213&postcount=1352]in this post[/url] (which would also have led to a "government shut-down" at 12:01AM EST Tuesday) will not be fulfilled:

[url=https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-politics-coronavirus-pandemic-2a2645e52fda774ae8f1443b4dffc82e]Trump signs massive measure funding government, COVID relief[/url][quote]WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) — President Donald Trump has signed a $900 billion pandemic relief package that will deliver long-sought cash to businesses and individuals. It also averts a government shutdown.

Trump announced the signing in a statement Sunday night.

The massive bill includes $1.4 trillion to fund government agencies through September and contains other end-of-session priorities such as money for cash-starved transit systems and an increase in food stamp benefits.[/quote]

Trump just took the wrong hostage, proving he never actually learnt how Washington works
 

From 11 December:
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-ndaa-republicans-biden-section-230-b1769627.html[/URL]
[QUOTE]Aggrieved and acting even more impulsively than normal since Biden was projected as his replacement and as every state he lost has certified its election results, the president wanted payback on Facebook, Twitter and other social media firms.

A hostage he needed.

There were just two options: the NDAA, considered a must-pass policy measure, and a year-end spending measure.

Oddly, Trump chose the former. In so doing, he was trying to essentially kidnap and block a bill that is considered sacred by the conservative lawmakers that have mostly stood by his demands and falsehoods for a half-decade.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kladner;567520]From 11 December:
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-ndaa-republicans-biden-section-230-b1769627.html[/URL][/QUOTE][QUOTE]There were just two options: the NDAA, considered a must-pass policy measure, and a year-end spending measure.

Oddly, Trump chose the former.[/QUOTE]
Actually, he took the [i]latter[/i] (government funding/COVID relief bill) hostage, not the former (NDAA). He finally caved and signed the relief bill, probably because his Congressional enablers pointed out that, if the bill died, the voters would likely punish them for the unpleasant consequences that would have ensued.

[aside]The commentaries to the effect that it is shocking - [i]shocking[/i] - that this or that enabler, in this case poor poor pitiful Treasury Secretary Steve "The Foreclosure King" Mnuchin, find their misbegotten loyalty to a narcissist repayed with betrayal, make my eyes roll so far back I can see the gears and levers between my ears. What did they expect?[/aside]

The Tantrum-thrower-in-Chief [i]vetoed[/i] the NDAA, as mentioned [url=https://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=567165&postcount=1349]in this post[/url]. When he did that, he knocked his would-be hostage o' the head and threw it on the ground, but the hostage was alive and free of his clutches. Congress can (and IMO almost certainly will) override his veto.

Now, he's reduced to inciting his cult followers to riot, as IMO he has in effect, already done - calling for them to gather in DC on January 6, saying it "will be wild." Gee, wouldn't it be a shame if they didn't get a permit...