[QUOTE=kladner;415442]Why are the imperfections of capitalism, whatever they might be, acceptable, when other systems, hybrid or otherwise, are considered fatally flawed for alleged, but unspecified faults? Why are we to suppose that other systems are incapable of being improved, but that capitalism is so endowed?
Merely asserting that 'freedom' can only exist under capitalism, because other systems are 'bad', or 'failed' by arbitrary definition, is another of your tail-biting arguments. Though you may not care to accept it, there are notable social<>democratic systems which have operated successfully for a very long time. The name Otto von Bismarck is significant in this regard. Autocrat though he was, he set up a welfare state to forestall socialist advances.
EDIT: There does seem to be a functioning capitalist German state, complete with a variety of structure which might commonly called "socialist." Perhaps it is moribund, by your definitions.[/QUOTE]
The "imperfections of capitalism" are improvable because under capitalism people are free to improve it.
Not so under any other economic system.
Socialism has survived in some countries because of the existence of the capitalist countries.
Consider China.
Also, welfare statism came about because capitalism did not have a proper definition and a full opportunity
to thrive everywhere and anywhere in the world. It was even in danger in the US after WWII.

[QUOTE=davar55;415568]The "imperfections of capitalism" are improvable because under capitalism people are free to improve it.
Not so under any other economic system.
Socialism has survived in some countries because of the existence of the capitalist countries.
Consider China.
Also, welfare statism came about because capitalism did not have a proper definition and a full opportunity
to thrive everywhere and anywhere in the world. It was even in danger in the US after WWII.[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for sharing! :smile:

[QUOTE=davar55;415565]By the Ontological argument, which is flawed, there would be a God.
Perfect socialism would be perfect slavery for humanity.
Perfect communism would be ultimate death for humanity.
Real world systems can always improve toward perfect capitalism,
so long as humanity is free.
Your last sentence is of course a joke that should be smilied.[/QUOTE]Standard debating style from you. Bald assertions without any justification and ignoring any counterarguments.

To take just one: why is "perfect communism ultimate death for humanity". It is very far from obvious to me, and I have thought about such things in quite some depth for quite a few years.

[QUOTE=xilman;415576]Standard debating style from you. Bald assertions without any justification and ignoring any counterarguments.[/QUOTE]

"Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions." -- Proverbs 18:2

[QUOTE=ewmayer;415612]"Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions." -- Proverbs 18:2[/QUOTE]

Delightful.

What book was that found in?

That's a serious question.

[QUOTE=chalsall;415623]Delightful.

What book was that found in?

That's a serious question.[/QUOTE][url]https://www.google.com/search?q=Proverbs+18%3A2[/url]

:mooc:

What counterarguments? Nothing more than "you're wrong" and "justify it."

I stand by capitalism and my accurate if bald statements about it.

Socialism and communism would have the results I stated.
Fortunately, capitalism and freedom will prevent those disasters.

[QUOTE=davar55;415722]Socialism and communism would have the results I stated.[/QUOTE]
Why?

Your statement may be true, and I'm quite willing to accept the possibility, but I don't understand why it must necessarilyu be true. Enlighten me.

[QUOTE=xilman;415736]Why?
Your statement may be true, and I'm quite willing to accept the possibility, but I don't understand why it must necessarilyu be true. Enlighten me.[/QUOTE]

Which out-of-context statement do you wish me to explain?

[QUOTE=davar55;416061]Which out-of-context statement do you wish me to explain?[/QUOTE]Either or, preferably, both of

Perfect socialism would be perfect slavery for humanity.

Perfect communism would be ultimate death for humanity.

[QUOTE=xilman;416098]Either or, preferably, both of
Perfect socialism would be perfect slavery for humanity.
Perfect communism would be ultimate death for humanity.[/QUOTE]

Well, I can ... but first, where do you stand on those fates?
Are you for or against either final result?
I only ask because you aren't fully pro-capitalism,
which as I've said is the only political-economic system
which leaves humanity free to pursue proper values.

Using your definition, capitalism involves money being a
medium of exchange, and the means by which scarce
resources are rationed. This is only partly right, but
it'll do as an interim description. SO why does money work?

I have tio answer this way, with more questions, until we
agree on some basics. Hope that's ok.