[QUOTE=ewmayer;400172]o Who gets to issue said money, in what forms, and value tied-to/set-by what?
o How does the right (or not) of government to levy taxes fit in?
o How would fractional (or more accurately, fictional) reserve banking as currently practiced around the world fit in (or not)?
o You speak easily of 'limited government' - what powers (if any) would government have to regulate the 'free markets' in order to prevent abuses?
o How would you (or not) limit the influence of monied interests on government, crafting of laws and regulations, and on the electoral process?
o What provisions would there be (or not) for protection of 'the commons'? For instance, if I discovered oil under my property, would I be permitted to freely drill for it and exploit it in the fullest and finest capitalistic fashion?
Now, some sample what-if scenarios for you to run through your nascent economic/social model:
o Bill X. owns a US-based Uranium-mining, refining and reprocessing company. Bill wishes to sell certain quantities of enriched Uranium and reactor-extracted Plutonium to the governments of Iran, North Korea, Syria and Israel, all of whom promise to use the materials for peaceful purposes only, that is, in civilian nuclear power generation. Would he need anyone's say-so to do so?
o Sally Y. own a US-based chemical company. She wishes to sell certain quantities of dual-use chemicals which have legitimate industrial as well as nerve-gas and blistering-agent uses to various governments around the world, as well as to certain private organizations who wish to remain unnamed, but all of whom promise to use the materials for peaceful purposes only. Any problems? What, if any, constraints should Sally face here, and who would enforce them?
o My little grandmother was recently the victim of a financial scam which cost her her life's savings. The scammer was caught and arrested but no appreciable amount of the funds he stole from multiple victims was recovered. As a result poor old dear gran was unable to pay her monthly health-insurance premium and had her coverage canceled by the insurer. She also suffered a fall last week which caused a severe concussion and broken hip. Having recently lost my job and with a family to support, I cannot afford to pay her rapidly mounting medical bills, and the hospital is threatening to dump her in her bed at home unless we come up with $100,000 good-faith payment. What should we do?
==================
[URL="http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/238825-fundamentalist-capitalism-has-led-to-us-decline-and-loss-of"]Fundamentalist capitalism has led to US decline and loss of influence[/URL][/QUOTE]

The questions are valid, but the approach is wrong. As these are economic questions, this nascent description of
what I'll call "to be" capitalism, since it doesn't exist yet, should start not with exceptional instances but with
particular descriptions of the normal operation of ANY economic system, then extract principles from these.

First things first. How are economic rights derived from the more fundamental political individual human rights?

[QUOTE=davar55;400266]The questions are valid, but the approach is wrong. As these are economic questions, this nascent description of
what I'll call "to be" capitalism, since it doesn't exist yet, should start not with exceptional instances but with
particular descriptions of the normal operation of ANY economic system, then extract principles from these.

First things first. How are economic rights derived from the more fundamental political individual human rights?[/QUOTE]

Please explain in more detail how "the approach is wrong."

[QUOTE=kladner;400271]Please explain in more detail how "the approach is wrong."[/QUOTE]

OK, would he want me to work through each question, in order, one at a time?
Or write a text book, post it, let him google my answers?
Or nit-pick the uranium question on "what for" issues, as well as is it solely economic?
Is it a real qrandma with real numbers or just a made-up case?

If he really wants answers, ask one fundamental question first ... perhaps the first one
about money will do, perhaps not. Rethink the methodology.

[QUOTE=davar55;400266]The questions are valid, but the approach is wrong. As these are economic questions, this nascent description of
what I'll call "to be" capitalism, since it doesn't exist yet, should start not with exceptional instances but with
particular descriptions of the normal operation of ANY economic system, then extract principles from these.[/quote]
You're the one peddling your own special custom versions of economics and capitalism - since you seem unable or unwilling to give a coherent definition of either of those, I though some specific examples of 'how does your proposed ideal system deal with some pretty obvious real-world scenarios' would be illustrative in terms of showing by example what you mean by e.g. 'freedom' and 'property rights.' Is the approach 'wrong' because is forces you to grapple with real-world economics and politics rather than pure fantasy?

[quote]First things first. How are economic rights derived from the more fundamental political individual human rights?[/QUOTE]
You tell us - again, you're the one who claiming the commonly understood relationships between such things are 'not really capitalism.'

And you specifically used the term 'money based economic social system.' So how do you envision the basics of the 'money' aspect of that actually working? Or are you gonna duck that with more flummery, too? In that case it would be rather obvious that despite your hifalutin talk about 'real capitalism', you've not the slightest clue as to what that might plausibly mean. Which would echo the 'grand pronouncements made from a position of profound and willful ignorance' trait you've displayed elsewhere, for instance in your 'special pet cosmology' thread.

I wonder: is there such a concept as a 'Dunning-Kruger polymath'? Or does the basic D-K characterization connote multi-field crankery?

[QUOTE=ewmayer;400278]You're the one peddling your own special custom versions of economics and capitalism - since you seem unable or unwilling to give a coherent definition of either of those, I though some specific examples of 'how does your proposed ideal system deal with some pretty obvious real-world scenarios' would be illustrative in terms of showing by example what you mean by e.g. 'freedom' and 'property rights.' Is the approach 'wrong' because is forces you to grapple with real-world economics and politics rather than pure fantasy?
You tell us - again, you're the one who claiming the commonly understood relationships between such things are 'not really capitalism.'
And you specifically used the term 'money based economic social system.' So how do you envision the basics of the 'money' aspect of that actually working? Or are you gonna duck that with more flummery, too? In that case it would be rather obvious that despite your hifalutin talk about 'real capitalism', you've not the slightest clue as to what that might plausibly mean. Which would echo the 'grand pronouncements made from a position of profound and willful ignorance' trait you've displayed elsewhere, for instance in your 'special pet cosmology' thread.
I wonder: is there such a concept as a 'Dunning-Kruger polymath'? Or does the basic D-K characterization connote multi-field crankery?[/QUOTE]

I'm not peddling "real" capitalism, its true charm is that it "peddles" itself.

I might engage your obvious interest in economics, but you seem unable to avoid personalizing.

[QUOTE=davar55;400273]OK, would he want me to work through each question, in order, one at a time?
Or write a text book, post it, let him google my answers?
Or nit-pick the uranium question on "what for" issues, as well as is it solely economic?
Is it a real qrandma with real numbers or just a made-up case?

If he really wants answers, ask one fundamental question first ... perhaps the first one
about money will do, perhaps not. Rethink the methodology.[/QUOTE]

Without trying to get into the issue at hand, I would note that I have been reprimanded for only responding to part of one of your posts.

[QUOTE=kladner;400309]Without trying to get into the issue at hand, I would note that I have been reprimanded for only responding to part of one of your posts.[/QUOTE]
You deserve an apology. My strongest motivation has been to allow everyone to speak while preventing direct name calling. I have not done that well enough. I am sorry.

[QUOTE=only_human;400318]You deserve an apology. My strongest motivation has been to allow everyone to speak while preventing direct name calling. I have not done that well enough. I am sorry.[/QUOTE]

Ross, I had no beef with you. I was referencing complaints within a thread.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;400172]o Who gets to issue said money, in what forms, and value tied-to/set-by what?
o How does the right (or not) of government to levy taxes fit in?
o How would fractional (or more accurately, fictional) reserve banking as currently practiced around the world fit in (or not)?
o You speak easily of 'limited government' - what powers (if any) would government have to regulate the 'free markets' in order to prevent abuses?
o How would you (or not) limit the influence of monied interests on government, crafting of laws and regulations, and on the electoral process?
o What provisions would there be (or not) for protection of 'the commons'? For instance, if I discovered oil under my property, would I be permitted to freely drill for it and exploit it in the fullest and finest capitalistic fashion?
Now, some sample what-if scenarios for you to run through your nascent economic/social model:
o Bill X. owns a US-based Uranium-mining, refining and reprocessing company. Bill wishes to sell certain quantities of enriched Uranium and reactor-extracted Plutonium to the governments of Iran, North Korea, Syria and Israel, all of whom promise to use the materials for peaceful purposes only, that is, in civilian nuclear power generation. Would he need anyone's say-so to do so?
o Sally Y. own a US-based chemical company. She wishes to sell certain quantities of dual-use chemicals which have legitimate industrial as well as nerve-gas and blistering-agent uses to various governments around the world, as well as to certain private organizations who wish to remain unnamed, but all of whom promise to use the materials for peaceful purposes only. Any problems? What, if any, constraints should Sally face here, and who would enforce them?
o My little grandmother was recently the victim of a financial scam which cost her her life's savings. The scammer was caught and arrested but no appreciable amount of the funds he stole from multiple victims was recovered. As a result poor old dear gran was unable to pay her monthly health-insurance premium and had her coverage canceled by the insurer. She also suffered a fall last week which caused a severe concussion and broken hip. Having recently lost my job and with a family to support, I cannot afford to pay her rapidly mounting medical bills, and the hospital is threatening to dump her in her bed at home unless we come up with $100,000 good-faith payment. What should we do?
==================
[url=thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/238825-fundamentalist-capitalism-has-led-to-us-decline-and-loss-of ]Fundamentalist capitalism has led to US decline and loss of influence[/url][/QUOTE]

Let's start at the beginning. What is money?
[quote]Who gets to issue said money, in what forms, and value tied-to/set-by what?[/quote]

Do you want to discuss this basic issue, or just hear my initial thoughts in a vacuum?

Before money comes economics in the small. But I'm not rewriting a textbook. Here.

[QUOTE=kladner;400320]Ross, I had no beef with you. I was referencing complaints within a thread.[/QUOTE]
I have a beef with this smuggled meat time capsule:
[URL="http://ajw.asahi.com/article/asia/china/AJ201506300073"]Chinese customs seize 'zombie meat' from 1970s in smuggling bust[/URL]
[QUOTE]More than 20 smuggling rings were targeted by Chinese customs authorities, and a total of 3 billion yuan (59.3 billion yen or $483 million) worth of illegal meat was seized, accounting for more than [B][U]100,000 tons[/U] of chicken wings, drumsticks, beef and other meat products.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]The discovery of food hazardous to health often occurs in China, but reports that some of the seized meat products were [B]produced in the 1970s and 1980s[/B] according to labels on the packaging have shocked the nation.

The illegal meat products were originally produced abroad in countries such as the United States and Brazil. Details on why the meat was preserved for so long are unknown, but the speculation in the media is that “they may have come from meat stocked for times of war.”[/QUOTE]

Capitalism is our friend.