[QUOTE=davar55;395883]I think I have four wishes remaining, having used up six just to get to this point?

BTW these wishes are free aren't they? In all senses of the word?[/QUOTE]

And this relates to capitalism in what way?
:threadhijacked:

[QUOTE=kladner;395887]And this relates to capitalism in what way?
:threadhijacked:[/QUOTE]
Wishes moved to [I]Wish transnominalization[/I] thread.

[QUOTE=kladner;395887]And this relates to capitalism in what way?
:threadhijacked:[/QUOTE]

All right, what do you think capitalism is, and what do you have against it?
In as condensed a definition as you can, and with only brief jibes.
Do you really think there is a better alternative?

[QUOTE=davar55;396039]Do you really think there is a better alternative?[/QUOTE]

Are you familiar with the concept of screaming into a space?

[QUOTE=davar55;396039]All right, what do you think capitalism is, and what do you have against it?
In as condensed a definition as you can, and with only brief jibes.
Do you really think there is a better alternative?[/QUOTE]
This is a cognitive distortion called all-or-nothing thinking. There is more to this than capitalism exclusive-or something else.

[QUOTE=davar55;396039]All right, what do you think capitalism is, and what do you have against it?
In as condensed a definition as you can, and with only brief jibes.
Do you really think there is a better alternative?[/QUOTE]Kladner can answer for himself but here's my take.

Capital --- the stock, including property and equipment, and/or money, used for carrying on a business.
Capitalist --- one who derives income and power from capital
Capitalism --- the economic system which generates and gives power to capitalists.

Added in edit: about as brief as I can make it without leaving important terms undefined and, AFAICT, sans jibes.

Also added in edit: better is a value judgement. We can reasonably expect others to disagree with us without either party being "wrong" in some sense.

[QUOTE=xilman;396058][...]Also added in edit: better is a value judgement. We can reasonably expect others to disagree with us without either party being "wrong" in some sense.[/QUOTE]
Also, the word "better" can often be applied only to some subset of the population and not to the whole, and this discussion provides no exception to that.

[QUOTE=only_human;394861]So they barter and, on occasions like the following, show planning but we haven't caught them putting the two together as yet.

[URL="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chimpanzee-plans-throws-stones-zoo/"]Planning of the Apes: Zoo Chimp Plots Rock Attacks on Visitors[/URL][/QUOTE]Interesting trading relationship between humans and crows documented at [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31604026[/url]

TL;DR Human gives human food to crows, crows reciprocate with the sort of gifts they would give to other crows.

[QUOTE=xilman;396438]Interesting trading relationship between humans and crows documented at [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31604026[/URL]

TL;DR Human gives human food to crows, crows reciprocate with the sort of gifts they would give to other crows.[/QUOTE]

That is extremely cool! Crows are some of the smartest birds, with a strong social sense. It would be a wonderful privilege to be able to form such a relationship.

When I was very little, tenants of an aunt and uncle had a pet crow. He could talk, saying, "I'm Joe, the crow." :smile:

If there's no "money" concept involved in the social system's exchange mechanism,
it is barter. Capitalism began with the invention of money. It was the invention of
money that brought humanity out of the hunter gatherer stage. Those who participated
in peaceful exchanges via money became the capitalists of the future. Those who
stuck with plundering others became the anti-freedom anti-peace anti-money anti-capitalists.

But I digress ... :smile:

[QUOTE=davar55;396567]If there's no "money" concept involved in the social system's exchange mechanism,
it is barter. Capitalism began with the invention of money. It was the invention of
money that brought humanity out of the hunter gatherer stage. Those who participated
in peaceful exchanges via money became the capitalists of the future. Those who
stuck with plundering others became the anti-freedom anti-peace anti-money anti-capitalists.

But I digress ... :smile:[/QUOTE]
That seems simplistic. One theory among many diverse theories about beginning agriculture suggests that it started after learning that fermented grain made beer.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money#The_emergence_of_money"]The first grain remains found, considered to be evidence of pre-agricultural practice date to 17,000 BC[/URL]. We seem to have left hunter gatherer stage before money. Agriculture may have been an attempt to organize commodities that were already traded. Then constructed representations of a commodity, say, a statue of a cow may be next step. Maybe that is incorrect but whatever happened, it was not a simple just-so story.

Don't get me wrong, just-so stories have their place and can organize or move a narrative. Here is [URL="http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/03/22/just-so-mtgox/"]A Just-So Story About What May Have Happened At Mt.Gox[/URL]. Many, many stories are spun about money.