The Americanisation of die Englische Sprache
 

My wife and are enjoying a brief return to England, having lived here for most of 2010. The previous stay was long enough that we were getting pretty good at understanding English. We've been away long enough that the invasion of Americanisms is noticeable and surprising to us.

Bangers and Mash has become Sausages and Mash.
Chips are frequently referred to as fries.
Bookings are now often reservations.

We've also noticed a few not related to food, although I don't recall them at the moment.

I think of it as more of a homogenisation of English. The world is slowly converging towards one global usage with influences from many different places affecting all countries. It is not just USA (which I assume you mean when you say American?) imposing its language on others. It also works in reverse with USA taking on words from elsewhere.

William, spot any whilsts yet? While the elusive crepuscular critter known as the whilst ([i]Whiles anglorum stiffupperlabius[/i]) exists in the English-speaking New World, it it exceedingly rare here in the wild, and most often found behind glass in zoos and research institutes.

I do hope its numbers in its native habitat are not dwindling as are those of the other exemplars you note.

I'm sure globalization plays a role, but in Britain vocabulary (and, to an extent, food) are still a matter of social class.

[QUOTE]
Ed Milliband [leader of the UK Labour Party] had an unfortunate campaign...He made the elementary blunder of trying to tackle a bacon-and-ketchup butty in front of a salivating mob of cameramen. It is wrong to blame this on his lack of an aide with a background in TV. You do not need experience in the broadcast media to know that it is a messy business eating a bacon butty; you simply have to have eaten one before.
[/QUOTE]
From an article on the current election campaign:
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/24/ed-miliband-labour-local-elections-party-campaign[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nick;374233][...] in Britain vocabulary (and, to an extent, food) are still a matter of social class.[/QUOTE]
...and location, as well as social class. I grew up partly in the northwest of England where such gastronomical delights as the "chip butty" were popular. Elsewhere in the country, the chip butty was hardly known in the language, let alone the diet.

In the UK, the diet gets worse the further north you go. In Glasgow a popular item sold by fish-and-chip shops is the deep-fried Mars bar.

That and the chip butty are exceedingly full of megacalories, and regular consumption thereof will increase a person's body mass and reduce said person's life expectancy.

[QUOTE=Nick;374233]I'm sure globalization plays a role, but in Britain vocabulary (and, to an extent, food) are still a matter of social class.[/QUOTE]

I had to look up "butty". Now I am wondering, did he have chips in that? In any case, buttered white bread with catsup and bacon sounds nasty.

+1 to "homogenization" because that's pretty much it. In Paris, just last week, I saw a bit of the same.

I don't have much of a soft spot for people lamenting the "degradation" of the language. If English is indeed destined to be the language of Earth, it would be cool to have one dialect and one spelling of each word.

EDIT: On the other hand, I am one to use -our instead of -or whenever possible. Favour vs Favor. It's a bit inconsistent of me, and that confuses me somewhat. :shrug:

[QUOTE=retina;374217]homogenisation[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheMawn;374254]homogenization[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheMawn;374254]... and one spelling of each word.[/QUOTE]I was first so do I win?

[QUOTE=kladner;374248]I had to look up "butty". Now I am wondering, did he have chips in that? In any case, buttered white bread with catsup and bacon sounds nasty.[/QUOTE]It might sound nasty but as long as you use ketchup instead of catsup it tastes delicious.

[QUOTE=retina;374255]I was first so do I win?[/QUOTE]

Lord of Evil needs someone else to tell him if he wins?

[QUOTE=TheMawn;374254]On the other hand, I am one to use -our instead of -or whenever possible. Favour vs Favor. It's a bit inconsistent of me, and that confuses me somewhat. :shrug:[/QUOTE]

I don't see why. Canada often spells words the English way, maybe as a protest against Webster's Americanisation of spellings, where America means the USA. Again, although the USA spellings have reverted to the original Latin, the English (and Canadian) spellings come through the French: Latin favor -> French faveur -> English favour.

If you want confusion, which of licence and license is the noun and which the verb? In England, licence is the noun and license the verb; in the USA it it the other way around.

[QUOTE=kladner;374248]I had to look up "butty". Now I am wondering, did he have chips in that? In any case, buttered white bread with catsup and bacon sounds nasty.[/QUOTE]

As with many foods, it does seem to mirror the colo[u]rs and texture of those who regularly consume it [or perhaps I have the causality backwards].

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374265]As with many foods, it does seem to mirror the colo[u]rs and texture of those who regularly consume it [or perhaps I have the causality backwards].[/QUOTE]

In my case, my food and the people regularly consumed have identical colours and textures.

:unsure:


[SUB][SUB]Too much? Yeah, probably.[/SUB][/SUB]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374221]William, spot any whilsts yet?[/QUOTE]

Today, in advertising on the side of a red london bus. Does that count?

[QUOTE=retina;374217]It is not just USA (which I assume you mean when you say American?)[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BudgieJane;374264]Americanisation of spellings, where America means the USA.[/QUOTE]Why do folks get their knickers in a twist over "America" ≈ "The United States of America"? They never make a fuss over
"Mexico" ≈ "Estados Unidos Mexicanos"
"Australia" ≈ "Commonwealth of Australia"
"United Kingdom" ≈ "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
or other similar shortenings.
They often say, "The USA is not all of 'America'!". Well, there is no single "America" landmass. There are continents of "South America" and "North America", aka "The Americas".

[QUOTE=wblipp;374270]Today, in advertising on the side of a red london bus. Does that count?[/QUOTE]

Spotting a wily wild whilst wun-, erm I mean, running free on such an iconic transit vehicle inmidst of a [uh-oh, I feel another bout of Elmer Fudd coming on...] gweat metwopowis not onwy counts, it's wowth extwa cwedit.

[QUOTE=TheMawn;374263]Lord of Evil needs someone else to tell him if he wins?[/QUOTE]Naturally I win. But a bit of politeness never hurts.[QUOTE=TheMawn;374268]In my case, my food and the people regularly consumed have identical colours and textures.[/QUOTE]You regularly consume people? I thought only my sharks had that privilege. I have a new respect for you. :bow:

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;374272]Well, there is no single "America" landmass. There are continents of "South America" and "North America", aka "The Americas".[/QUOTE]
Maybe this isn't what you're saying, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#Number_of_continents"]but some do consider both North and South America to be just one continent, and refer to it as America.[/URL]

Mexico isn't a continent name, and neither is Britain. If there was a country called "the United States of Europe" that was frequently referred to as just "Europe" I'm sure there'd be a similar confusion. Or maybe not. I wonder if Kiwis have a problem with the "Australia" thing.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;374272]They never make a fuss over
...
"United Kingdom" ≈ "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"[/QUOTE]Wanna bet on that one? Some people just call that whole general area England.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;374272]Why do folks get their knickers in a twist over "America" ≈ "The United States of America"?[/QUOTE]

Only speaking for myself... I find it a bit presumptuous.

By one measure, there are 62 countries which could be considered to be in "North America".

By the same measure, there are 63 countries which could be considered to be in "South America".

Some are in both sets, but I hope the point is clear to understand.

P.S. Just in case my point isn't clear, let me please refer you to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFgPX0hnNfA"]Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americians"[/URL].

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374265]As with many foods, it does seem to mirror the colo[u]rs and texture of those who regularly consume it [or perhaps I have the causality backwards].[/QUOTE]
If you are ever in Amsterdam, come and look at Van Gogh's early painting called "The Potato Eaters" (de aardappeleters):
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van-willem-vincent-gogh-die-kartoffelesser-03850.jpg[/URL]

[URL]http://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/vgm/index.jsp?page=1303&lang=en[/URL]

[QUOTE=chalsall;374277]P.S. Just in case my point isn't clear, let me please refer you to [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFgPX0hnNfA"]Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americians"[/URL].[/QUOTE]

Lol @ the little kid who said "Hang on, Canada has Provinces"

[QUOTE=Jayder;374275]Maybe this isn't what you're saying, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent#Number_of_continents"]but some do consider both North and South America to be just one continent, and refer to it as America.[/URL][/QUOTE]

That is extremely uncommon, at least since roughly the 17th century - "The Americas" is the general contemporary usage. Especially when the context makes it clear that one is speaking of an english-speaking nation called "America", only a clueless or deliberately obtuse person would respond with a "?"

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374341]That is extremely uncommon, at least since roughly the 17th century - "The Americas" is the general contemporary usage. Especially when the context makes it clear that one is speaking of an english-speaking nation called "America", only a clueless or deliberately obtuse person would respond with a "?"[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

Canada, or Barbados, or Jamaica or St. Lucia, for example.

Only an idiot would assume otherwise....

[QUOTE=retina;374217]...It is not just USA (which I assume you mean when you say American?) ...[/QUOTE]
The OP never even said "American" or "America".
Most of the ensuing off-tops are about beating up a strawman.

The OP said "Americanisms". This is a straightforward and not an obscure word ([B]:[/B] a characteristic feature of American English especially as contrasted with British English).

This seems vaguely relevant:
[YOUTUBE]lyHSjv9gxlE[/YOUTUBE]

[QUOTE=Batalov;374352]The OP never even said "American" or "America".
Most of the ensuing off-tops are about beating up a strawman.

The OP said "Americanisms". This is a straightforward and not an obscure word ([B]:[/B] a characteristic feature of [size=4][b]American[/b][/size] English especially as contrasted with British English).[/QUOTE]Hmm, a strawman? Me thinks not.

[QUOTE=retina;374353]Hmm, a strawman? Me thinks not.[/QUOTE]
I knew that you'd bite, heh-heh. Trolling the troll.
[URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/americanism"]Your beef[/URL] is with Merriam-Webster. Write to them. Report the results.

Don't forget to talk to Wiki, who in turn wrote:
[QUOTE=Wiki]Merriam-Webster, Inc., which was originally the G & C Merriam Company of Springfield, Massachusetts, is an [SIZE=4]American[/SIZE] company that publishes reference books, especially dictionaries that are descendants ... [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merriam-Webster"]Wikipedia[/URL][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374341]Especially when the context makes it clear that one is speaking of an english-speaking nation called "America", only a clueless or deliberately obtuse person would respond with a "?"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=chalsall;374344]Canada, or Barbados, or Jamaica or St. Lucia, for example.[/QUOTE]

I had not realized those entities also called themselves "America", as opposed to being geographically part of "the Americas" - you'd better fire off an angry e-mail to the pompous 'USA-centrists over at Wikipedia, because.they similarly are peddling the rank falsehood that Barbados is part of "the Americas" rather than being a co-America proper. (Ha, next thing you know they'll be telling us that the Queen of England is the Barbadian head of state - how un-American would that be? Or, to use a popular Americanism expressing shock or disbelief, quelle horreur!)

As always, thank you for your wisdom.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;374359]As always, thank you for your wisdom.[/QUOTE]

As always, you are welcome.

BTW, have you ever read "The Surgeon of Crowthorne"?

A mixed report from the National Portrait Gallery today. In the restaurant they asked if we had a reservation. Four years ago if we asked about reservations they sniggered and asked if we wanted a booking.

However, in the exhibit on Vivian Lee we find "Vivian Lee and Sir Laurence Olvier, [B]whilst [/B]filming ...

So my second spotting of a whilst.

That's the stuff that grinds my gears. Snickering over saying reservation instead of booking. What the hell? Why?

They think they're so much better than you because of the words you use to convey the very same idea. It takes a special kind.

At least your ass hole is thankful it doesn't have a large branch in it.

[QUOTE=wblipp;374414]However, in the exhibit on Vivian Lee we find "Vivian Lee and Sir Laurence Olvier, [B]whilst [/B]filming ...[/QUOTE]
You mean famous 1930-50s-era Anglo-Chinese actress Vivian Lee - no relation to famous 1940-2010s-era Anglo-Chinese actor Christopher Lee - or did you mean Sir Laurence's sometime costar and second wife Vivia[e]n Leigh? ;)

Speaking of Sir Laurence and Anglo-Chinese actors named Lee, interesting bit of trivia in form of a question: Christopher Lee is one of only 2 surviving actors from Olivier's [i]Hamlet[/i] (1948). Name the other. {Extra credit for doing it without clicking on the bio of every other costar until you hit one who lacks a date of death, though that is betwixt you and your deity/conscience].

[QUOTE=wblipp;374414][...] In the restaurant they asked if we had a reservation. Four years ago if we asked about reservations they sniggered and asked if we wanted a booking.[...][/QUOTE]
This is odd. As someone who was resident in the UK from birth in 1964 until 1993, I have always found "reservation" more natural than "booking" in relation to restaurant tables. "Booking" wouldn't raise too much of an eyebrow either from my circles at the time, but it still sounds less natural to me than reservation.

So it seems to me that if the UK has moved from "booking" to "reservation", and if this is indeed an "Americanisation", then it happened rather a long time ago.

Did I move in weird, Americanised circles when I lived in the UK? I don't really think so: they were very varied and I lived and grew up in all sectors of England and Wales at some time with the exception of the south east.

Another possibility, I suppose, is that my own memory is playing tricks with me now. Perhaps it's hard for me to remember what language I used then, and what I've superimposed since. Can anyone currently living in the UK (Paul? BudgieJane? ...) shed any light on this?

Whenever I book a table at a restaurant, I book it, rather than make a reservation, and I always have done. The only reservations I am aware of are seat reservations on the railway, made after you have booked your ticket, and book reservations in the local public library.

Of course, reservations are also areas of land where American Indians (sorry, Native Americans) were confined.

[QUOTE=BudgieJane;374463]Of course, reservations are also areas of land where American Indians (sorry, Native Americans) were confined.[/QUOTE]

Actually, such reservations exist in Canada as well. And, BTW, (at least in Canada) the "PC" term is now "Indigenous Peoples"...

P.S. As an aside, I personally find it interesting that the term "hacker" (someone who breaks into systems or otherwise does bad things using technology) annoys many geeks. A "hacker" used to (and still does for many) mean someone who's exceptionally good at something technical. The term "cracker", however, fell out of favor because it's also a derogatory term referring to "poor white trash" (mostly used in the Southern US of A).

Language is dynamic, and interesting.... :smile:

[QUOTE=BudgieJane;374463]Whenever I book a table at a restaurant, I book it, rather than make a reservation, and I always have done. The only reservations I am aware of are seat reservations on the railway, made after you have booked your ticket, and book reservations in the local public library.

Of course, reservations are also areas of land where American Indians (sorry, Native Americans) were confined.[/QUOTE]I book tables too, but whenever I show up the table invariably has a "Reserved" tag on it.

I suspect that its a verb vs noun/adjective usage. You book a resource such as a table and thereby end up with a reservation aka a reserved resource.

Etymologically I suspect that "booking" a resource will either die out or become a curiosity akin to typing on a computer keyboard. The verb will accurately describe a technology no longer in use.

When did you last see a computer fitted with type? It's been many years since I last typed on a computer keyboard --- an ASR/33 wet-sump teletype to be precise --- and I'd guess that the majority on the forum have never done so. Typewriters (that is, machines which use type to produce visible text) still exist but are now very rare.

Eating establishments still use books to record reservations but hotels rarely do and a good many restaurants have moved to electronic reservation systems.

I guess, then, that my memory is inaccurate concerning the use of booking or reserving when it comes to restaurant tables in the UK. It's actually a bit sobering when my attention is drawn to what I've forgotten about language in the UK since I left.

[QUOTE=Brian-E;374469]I guess, then, that my memory is inaccurate concerning the use of booking or reserving when it comes to restaurant tables in the UK. It's actually a bit sobering when my attention is drawn to what I've forgotten about language in the UK since I left.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't worry about it. There are more important things to worry about.

My take on the English language is I don't care how you say things as long as I can understand you. Similarly, in spite of some of the things I have posted in this and other threads, I don't care how you spell things, as long as I can understand you. Of course in some circumstances it is important to spell things correctly, for fear of misunderstanding which might be fatal, or cause someone to fail her exams; but apart from that, in my opinion, correct spelling is not too important.

Let's not forget the problems caused by failure to convert between British and American units of measurement:
[URL]http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/6Page53.pdf[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nick;374482]Let's not forget the problems caused by failure to convert between British and American units of measurement:
[URL]http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/6Page53.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]

Or even the French developed metric system.... :wink:

[QUOTE=chalsall;374465]Actually, such reservations exist in Canada as well. And, BTW, (at least in Canada) the "PC" term is now "Indigenous Peoples"...[/QUOTE]Actually [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nations"]First Nations[/URL] is more PC.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;374493]Actually [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Nations"]First Nations[/URL] is more PC.[/QUOTE]

Both terms are in common modern-day use. First Nations does not include the Inuit nor the Métis.

[QUOTE=Nick;374482]Let's not forget the problems caused by failure to convert between British and American units of measurement:
[URL]http://spacemath.gsfc.nasa.gov/weekly/6Page53.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]

Please forgive me. I had hoped that someone would jump in here and speak. Sadly, that didn't happen.

The third example given in your PDF, AC 143, is often refereed to as the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider"]Gimli Glider[/URL] within Canada.

A serious fsck up. But the Captain and his team managed the situation, and brought everyone on board the plane back to the earth safely.

[QUOTE=BudgieJane;374480]I don't care how you spell things, as long as I can understand you.[/QUOTE]Yis, i toetilly ahgrie hair. Letur silekshun four wurdz iz knot sew imporetint.

[QUOTE=chalsall;374499]The third example given in your PDF, AC 143, is often refereed to as the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider"]Gimli Glider[/URL] within Canada.

A serious fsck up. But the Captain and his team managed the situation, and brought everyone on board the plane back to the earth safely.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's a great rescue.
Bugs Bunny's solution was somewhat different (watch from about 7:15)
[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1xqrdtJs8w[/URL]

"Sorry folks, we ran out of gas!"