Margaret Thatcher: Good or Bad?
 

Although I realize that Margaret Thatcher hurt many people and did a good few things wrong, I know she did some good as well. I think it a shame that no one seems to be focusing on that at all.
Can I suggest that we try and post both a list of 5-10 good things she did along side a similar list of bad things. Please make your lists the same size.

[QUOTE=henryzz;336671]Although I realize that Margaret Thatcher hurt many people and did a good few things wrong, I know she did some good as well. I think it a shame that no one seems to be focusing on that at all.
Can I suggest that we try and post both a list of 5-10 good things she did along side a similar list of bad things. Please make your lists the same size.[/QUOTE]

I won't abide by your criteria, but I would say she did good for the following reasons:

1. She backed Ronald Raygun. (He arguably brought down the Soviet Union.)

2. She stood down the Unions, who were making unreasonable demands.

3. She made a speech, in a steady voice, shortly after a bomb intended to kill her went off.

"Reagan brought down the Soviet Union?" Gimme a break. Unsustainable spending did that. Note that both sides suffer(ed) from this, the key difference being that the "free market democracies" managed the clever trick of convincing the world that infinite leverage is possible within the magical "free market paradigm". As a result the west's governments-effectively-bankrupt status took 2 decades longer to become evident.

She embraced the same kind of "economic wealth through the magic of financialization" Ponzi that Reagan did, as well as the "shows of strength via lopsided shows of force" idiocy. Reagan had Grenada, Thatcher the Falklands. How heroic of them both.

[QUOTE=ewmayer;336685]"Reagan brought down the Soviet Union?" Gimme a break. Unsustainable spending did that.[/QUOTE]

Of course.

"Star Wars", while impracticable, caused the USSR to spend more than it could afford building more and more nukes to get through the "shield".

[QUOTE=henryzz;336671]Although I realize that Margaret Thatcher hurt many people and did a good few things wrong, I know she did some good as well.[/QUOTE][url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=336694&postcount=177[/url]

[QUOTE=henryzz;336671]Although I realize that Margaret Thatcher hurt many people and did a good few things wrong, I know she did some good as well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=cheesehead;336700][URL]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=336694&postcount=177[/URL][/QUOTE]
Soft scoop ice cream! I never knew that. Trust the "Daily Mail" to find something positive to say about Thatcher. Thanks @cheesehead for bringing it to our attention.

Unfortunately, @henryzz, like others here I too am quite unable to meet your criteria for this thread. I have lived through various governments, both in Britain and The Netherlands, whose political persuasion was far removed from mine, but in all cases except one I have frequently found myself approving of some of those governments' actions. In Thatcher's case, I always disagreed with everything she said or did. Or, at best, I agreed that something she did needed doing, but not in her uncompromising manner.

The Thatcher government was unique from my point of view. She was driven by a powerful idealism. That idealism was based on free rein for the rich and powerful to become richer and more powerful, and leave everyone else to sink or swim by themselves. Those who sank typically lost their livelihood completely. The only interest she had in those who could not ride the economic boom bandwagon was their vote at elections, and she achieved this by keeping tight control over the media, working closely with the media tycoons to do so.

The impression which I have gained in the few days since her death is that people who are not from Britain, or who are too young to remember the Thatcher years, are tending to write much more favourable eulogies about her now than those of my age and older with a British background. Qualities like firm ideology and strong leadership, which she undoubtedly had, are remembered by all. But the everyday nitty-gritty life under her government is recalled much better by those who experienced it and who are still living with the consequences now.

Ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more
 

A most readable chronicle of her premiership would be the collected "Dear Bill" letters from Private Eye.

D

[QUOTE]The Thatcher government was unique from my point of view. She was driven by a powerful idealism. That idealism was based on free rein for the rich and powerful to become richer and more powerful, and leave everyone else to sink or swim by themselves. Those who sank typically lost their livelihood completely. The only interest she had in those who could not ride the economic boom bandwagon was their vote at elections, and she achieved this by keeping tight control over the media, working closely with the media tycoons to do so.

The impression which I have gained in the few days since her death is that people who are not from Britain, or who are too young to remember the Thatcher years, are tending to write much more favourable eulogies about her now than those of my age and older with a British background. Qualities like firm ideology and strong leadership, which she undoubtedly had, are remembered by all. But the everyday nitty-gritty life under her government is recalled much better by those who experienced it and who are still living with the consequences now.[/QUOTE]

Well put! I guess I'm old enough, and left enough to remember her very unfavorably, even though I'm from the States. I will refrain from the use of more colorful characterizations.

I'm not sure how much, if anything, I should contribute to this thread. That's the main reason why I've not joined in until now.

I'm of an age when I vividly remember Thatcher's predecessors Heath, Wilson and Callaghan. In my view each of the three hastened the UKs economic industrial and international decline through the 1970s. I remember only having electricity three days a week. I remember inflation high and getting higher by the year. I remember millions of days lost through strikes each year. I remember grave diggers and rubbish collectors going on strike. I remember the UK, far from worrying about a single point downgrade from a AAA rating having to go to the IMF for an emergency loan. Incidentally, although I don't remember it from the time, I recently learned that the Labour predecessors closed more col mines, almost twice as many, as did the Thatcher governments. I remember the gross inefficiencies of the nationalized industries such as British Leyland and The Post Office. It really was significantly difficult to have a phone line installed, for instance, and the PO was the monopoly supplier of the handsets and any other such hardware. Giving significant portions of the population the opportunity to join the property owning classes through the right to buy their council-supplied housing and discounted shares in privatised industries was particularly popular and still has its echoes today. There are many who still hold privatization stocks, myself included, thirty years later.

Faced with that background there is little surprise that many not in the unions supported the changes brought in by the Thatcher governments --- privatization, re-organization of the British industrial landscape through decline of the inefficient and expensive mining and heavy industry (which, frankly, couldn't compete on a world market) and development of the high-value knowledge based industries in their various forms including IT, comms, financial services, higher education, advertising & marketing, etc. All of these have subsequently proved competitive in today's ever more global market.

As for the social class aspect, I should clarify that I come from a working class background, my mother from a coal-mining district and my father from light industry. Neither were as socially fortunate as Thatcher's parents, even though hers have been described as "humble". I was the first person in my family to go to university. I and my family recognized that something needed to be done. We were not alone among our stratum of society.

Despite my bias on this subject, I appreciate the report from one who was on the ground during the times in question.

[QUOTE=xilman;336933]I'm not sure how much, if anything, I should contribute to this thread. That's the main reason why I've not joined in until now.[/QUOTE]
Then thank goodness you decided in the end that you [I]should[/I] recount your experience and give your take on life before, during and after the Thatcher years. I for one was specifically hoping that you would.

Incidentally I, too, am old enough to remember many occasions in around 1974 sitting in darkness wondering when the lights would come back on and the electic cooker would be back in use so that we could all have something to eat... (cue violins). And I vividly remember soaring inflation, fuel shortages, and a general feeling of economic doom at the time.

I readily accept that some people benefitted from the Thatcher government's approach, and that not all of these people were yuppies from the south east.