Mental evilers aren't massive, they're massively murderous
 

I keep seeing these news reports saying the Batman movie shooting, and apparently some other shooting I'm not familiar with, are being blamed on mental illness. But this doesn't parse with my experience with mental illness.

Mental illness is a form of mental confusion, confusion about ones place in the world(thinking that they're God or, going the other way, thinking they're totally worthless), confusion about reality(thinking the tv is talking to them) and other ways which I can't think of at the moment.

But when a person goes out and commits intentional acts of violence, there's no confusion involved in that. It's safer to live near a mental health hospital where they've freed all their patients than it is to live near, well, most people. If a mentally ill person is violent towards you, they may be stressed by their mental illness, but intentional violence is still 100% voluntary. Obviously, there are cases of sleepwalking and someone killing a parent because they thought they were an alien, but in that case it wasn't murder because they didn't believe they were killing a person. The Batman movie dude planned his homicidal rampage for weeks before he did what he did.

If a mentally ill person becomes violent, the best thing to do is simply try to run away. Mental illness is like anger, it impairs your ability to function like you normally would. The more severely mentally ill a person is, the smaller their perceived world appears to be. Just like with extreme anger, repeating back to them some of their obsessive thoughts will tend to calm them down. It's kind of like a hostage situation, except the kidnapper is the illness and hostage is the person.

The problem with your analysis is that, you are trying to be the arbiter of what is and is not mental illness. Forgive me, but, suffering from one form of mental illness does not make you an expert in the full spectrum of mental illnesses.

That said, I'm partially sympathetic to your viewpoint. Committing mass murder does not by itself make you mentally ill.

For those who would like to know more about what sort of thing [U][I][B]I [/B][/I][/U]believe caused Mr. Lanza to do this:
[url]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/22/i-was-adam-lanza.html[/url]

I read this, and agreed wholeheartedly. I've gone through this same sort of thing (not shooting people, but being to that point) and found it to be an accurate synopsis of what went through my mind at the age of 13.
I've since studied psychology and physiology rather extensively on my own time.
P.S. I would like to add, that the antidepressants the "experts" put me on has since caused my thyroid to cease functioning, and the hormones are now replaced by pills that taste nasty :raman:

[QUOTE=axn;324488]The problem with your analysis is that, you are trying to be the arbiter of what is and is not mental illness. Forgive me, but, suffering from one form of mental illness does not make you an expert in the full spectrum of mental illnesses.[/QUOTE]
Um, you do realize that someone with a mental illness is likely to spend time around other people that have a mental illness. And that they're more likely to research the various conditions.

Edit: I'm not saying I'm an expert, just that the more complex the evil action, the less likely it is caused by mental illness.

[QUOTE=c10ck3r;324490]For those who would like to know more about what sort of thing [U][I][B]I [/B][/I][/U]believe caused Mr. Lanza to do this:
[URL]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/12/22/i-was-adam-lanza.html[/URL]
[/QUOTE]
Thanks very much for linking to this essay, c10ck3r. I also call attention to a link from it:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/books/review/the-righteous-mind-by-jonathan-haidt.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=all&adxnnlx=1356205022-7g7qBrfOqCf1vJ327j+kHg[/url]

[QUOTE=jasong;324494]Um, you do realize that someone with a mental illness is likely to spend time around other people that have a mental illness. And that they're more likely to research the various conditions.[/QUOTE]
This is only true if it is known and acknowledged that the person is mentally ill, which usually means that he or she has been diagnosed.

There are [I]plenty[/I] of people who are mentally ill but either keep it to themselves (in denial about it) and successfully hide it from even those who are closest to them, or are actually themselves also unaware of their illness. And these people can be violent. Yes, I too am speaking from personal experience.

By the way, @supermods, could this thread perhaps do better in the Soap Box rather than the lounge so that people don't feel unnecessarily inhibited about writing what they think?

I think sensational news stories give people the impression that many people with a mental illness are dangerous, but the statistics tend to support jasong's view that, in general, those with such an illness are not violent (and, in fact, more likely to be victims of violence).

The most basic classification of motives underlying violent behaviour is the distinction between expressive (hot rage) and instrumental (cold & calculating) violence.
Modern researchers are refining this, pointing to normative and status-related violence in particular.

[QUOTE=Nick;324532]The most basic classification of motives underlying violent behaviour is the distinction between expressive (hot rage) and instrumental (cold & calculating) violence.[/QUOTE]

Either way... Is it not obvious that perhaps assault weapons should not be available to them?

[QUOTE=Nick;324532]Modern researchers are refining this, pointing to normative and status-related violence in particular.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure they are....

[QUOTE=chalsall;324535]Either way... Is it not obvious that perhaps assault weapons should not be available to them?
[/QUOTE]

Is it not obvious that assault weapons should not be available to [U][I][B]anyone[/B][/I][/U] besides SWAT teams and the military?

[QUOTE=c10ck3r;324541]Is it not obvious that assault weapons should not be available to [U][I][B]anyone[/B][/I][/U] besides SWAT teams and the military?[/QUOTE]

Apparently, no.

[QUOTE=chalsall;324542]Apparently, no.[/QUOTE]

Hey Chris, you first asked an explanation. DISCLAIMER: I am no fan of Fmr. Gen. Stanley McChrystal. However, he does give some specific information on AR 15 rifles. There is also a very engaging gun nut just before.
[url]http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-january-8-2013-stanley-mcchrystal[/url]
See ~14:40 -Nuts
~16:00 The Fmr. Gen.

I present this for informative purposes. I'm not sure if it qualifies as an argument one way or the other on the availability of these weapons. That would depend on one's point of view.

[QUOTE=kladner;324544]I present this for informative purposes. I'm not sure if it qualifies as an argument one way or the other on the availability of these weapons. That would depend on one's point of view.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever pulled a trigger on a gun, and killed another living thing?

[QUOTE=Nick;324532]I think sensational news stories give people the impression that many people with a mental illness are dangerous, but the statistics tend to support jasong's view that, in general, those with such an illness are not violent (and, in fact, more likely to be victims of violence).

The most basic classification of motives underlying violent behaviour is the distinction between expressive (hot rage) and instrumental (cold & calculating) violence.
Modern researchers are refining this, pointing to normative and status-related violence in particular.[/QUOTE]
Awesome post, Nick, thanks.

[QUOTE=chalsall;324545]Have you ever pulled a trigger on a gun, and killed another living thing?[/QUOTE]

I have slaughtered domestic goats by shooting them in the back of the neck. I have also killed and plucked chickens, though that was a manual operation all the way.

EDIT: The former was with a fairly ordinary .22 rifle. As to high velocity, high capacity military weapons, I don't see why they should be general circulation. I had an uncle who hunted deer. He used a bolt action thirty ought six Winchester. While I think this was considered a sniper rifle in WWII, but it has little resemblance to the assault rifles of today. I have never owned a gun, and plan never to do so.

[QUOTE=c10ck3r;324490]...I would like to add, that the antidepressants the "experts" put me on has since caused my thyroid to cease functioning, and the hormones are now replaced by pills that taste nasty :raman:[/QUOTE]
:sad:
What were the antidepressants?

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXUJbW9rg8U"]imagine(it)[/URL]

In my experience, mental illness can take many forms. My son has Aspergers syndrome. He is well above average in terms of IQ but his social skills are extremely inadequate. He is a non-violent person, primarily because strong emotions are repulsive to him, and violence usually involves strong emotions.

I've often heard it said that 99/100 people will commit suicide under some set of conditions. Maybe from a terminal illness, maybe a blown relationship, etc. But you don't have to worry about the 99/100. They will take their own life and that is the end of it. You have to worry about the 1/100 who is different. They don't have a problem with the idea of suicide, but they plan on killing everybody else first. I would point out that the Michigan school bombing in 1927 seems to fit this profile of a person who wanted everyone else to suffer.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster[/url]

My point is that there seems to be a special category of mental illness(es) that lead(s) to mass murder.

Loughner, Holmes, and Lanza are mass murderers. I would submit that the interplay of their particular mental illness with mainstream society must be considered when trying to understand why they crossed the boundaries to commit murder.
DarJones