[QUOTE=davar55;335693]Mirrored self-recognition by dolphins is certainly a sign of intelligence, even self-awareness (forming a triad with language and tools), but this capacity doesn't qualify as reason / free will.[/QUOTE]

So, then, what does?

You have once again evaded the question. What, [B][I][U]exactly[/U][/I][/B], is your test for free will?

A little off-topic, but I'm looking forward to the day we advance to the point where people can be saved from locked in syndrome with direct machine to brain connections. Can you imagine talking to someone while they're in a full-blown coma? Would their thought process be rational or would there be a bit of dream logic coming in and out of their consciousness?

Probably phrased that in a way that makes me look like an idiot to some people, but it's fun to think about.

This was my suggested definition of free will earlier in this thread;

[QUOTE=davar55;324936]
If we're looking for a dictionary-type definition of free will, how about
this attempt:

Free will is the capacity of a conscious being to make reasoned choices
when confronted by circumstances presenting alternative possible actions.

It references "conscious beings", to exclude plants and non-living entities,
"make reasoned choices" to exclude animals that can think but not reason,
"choices" to mean the entity is actually aware its decision will make a
difference, "confronted by circumstances" to show such an entity has
a mind capable of perceiving its situation and acting in accordance with
its evaluation of the choice's result, and "alternative possible actions"
to say that the entity actually has an alternative.

IWS only people have this capacity.[/QUOTE]

So to identify a being with free will, first determine whether it's
a living entity. Then determine if it is a conscious entity. I gave
an approach to doing that in an earlier post. Then observation of
complex behaviors gives evidence of intelligence / thinking, which
is more advanced than mere sentience or consciousness.

This reduces the field of candidates who might possess free will.
So next use the ideas in he paragraph after the attempted definition.
See what the being does in the face of genuine alternatives that matter.
If they always make the wrong choice under the same circumstances,
such as a deer crossing a highway slowly and riskily, we should say
they haven't reason nor therefore free will. But animals and people
do learn, so an animal might give the appearance of reasoning
when it is actually exhibiting automatic non-free-willed thinking.

[QUOTE=davar55;335775]But animals and people do learn, so an animal might give the appearance of reasoning when it is actually exhibiting automatic non-free-willed thinking.[/QUOTE]

IMHO, this is an untestable definition.

Entirely subjective.

[QUOTE=chalsall;335778]IMHO, this is an untestable definition.

Entirely subjective.[/QUOTE]
Can you come up with a satisfactory definition of free will and/or consciousness which is testable?

If you can, it could be very important in the debate about the ethics and legality of both euthanasia and abortion.

By the way, I agree with your view that humans are not the only species to possess free will, but I can only justify that view on a "best guess" basis. Free will, to me, is the most fitting explanation of some actions of intelligent animals, plus I don't see any reason why the quality would naturally only develop in the slightest degree in just one species on Earth. Testing for it, however, is not something we have so far managed to achieve.

[QUOTE=Brian-E;335795]Can you come up with a satisfactory definition of free will and/or consciousness which is testable?[/QUOTE]

If I May please share my personal definitions...

Consciousness is easy: "Being able to build a model of one's surroundings in one's own mind in real-time.

Sentience is also easy: "Being able to make decisions based on the above model.

Free will is tricky. Many much smarter than me have tried.

But, my personal definition: "Free will involves the demonstrated ability to make decisions based on the possible future outcomes of immediate actions.

[QUOTE=chalsall;335837]If I May please share my personal definitions...

Consciousness is easy: "Being able to build a model of one's surroundings in one's own mind in real-time.

Sentience is also easy: "Being able to make decisions based on the above model.

Free will is tricky. Many much smarter than me have tried.

But, my personal definition: "Free will involves the demonstrated ability to make decisions based on the possible future outcomes of immediate actions.[/QUOTE]And how do you test each of these? If I claim to have each of those characteristics, how would you perform experiments and/or observations which would support or not support them? If I claim my (hypothetical) pet octopus has each of them, again how would you test those claims?

Note: I am being critical but I'm doing so in an effort to enhance understanding rather than to denigrate you. IMO, these are fundamentally difficult notions to pin down in such a way that they are amenable to the scientific manner. I personally don't know how to define "one's own mind" satisfactorily.

[QUOTE=chalsall;335837]If I May please share my personal definitions...
...
But, my personal definition: "Free will involves the demonstrated ability to make decisions based on the possible future outcomes of immediate actions.[/QUOTE]

[quote] (from earlier)
Free will is the capacity of a conscious being to make reasoned choices
when confronted by circumstances presenting alternative possible actions.
[/quote]

Pretty close, I think.

[QUOTE=xilman;335850]...
I personally don't know how to define "one's own mind" satisfactorily.[/QUOTE]

Considering you are one of he sanest members of this forum, I wonder
what you mean by this.

Isn't this just a combination of self-awareness and a scientific
knowledge of some of the workings of one's brain? Regardless
of your "protestations" (not really that), we on this forum are
quite certain that you possess consciousness, intelligence,
and free will. Without any doubt.

[QUOTE=davar55;335853]Pretty close, I think.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

But why then, exactly, do you think that only humans are capable of free will?

[QUOTE=xilman;335850]And how do you test each of these? If I claim to have each of those characteristics, how would you perform experiments and/or observations which would support or not support them? If I claim my (hypothetical) pet octopus has each of them, again how would you test those claims?[/QUOTE]

The test is easy...

Let the subject observe the environment.

Then let the subject be blindfolded.

Ask them questions.