[QUOTE=ewmayer;408896]'Whichever of you emerges first from the darkened Old West Saloon theatrical set with your NRA-approved 30-round extended clip empty, gets the nomination'.[/QUOTE]
Priceless! And deep! Makes me think what should I do in that situation, what should be the best way to win? Empty your clip in the air and run out? Neeee... Some guys may stay in a corner shooting at guys who want to get out. But that may not be the best strategy either... Hm.. Deeeeeppp....

[QUOTE=kladner;408890]I agree with your analysis. I understand your experience. Still,.....[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Uncwilly;408888]Not addressing the gun aspect of this, I want to make a few other points.[/QUOTE]
I [B][U]am not[/U][/B] entering the gun debate. What I am saying is that there is a problem that is all around that doesn't need laws passed or changed to deal with. People over look it. This evening I heard a story that focus on the social and the video posted. That is not the problem. The problem is what happened at work.

In further versions of the story about today's events I heard that he said that he had been bullied at work. This was before the issue where he thought that he had been discriminated against and that management did not take his case seriously. Bullying is caustic. It is often one part of the issue that leads to any form of work place violence. I have seen the effects it had on a family member at school.

One of my co-workers that I had worked with during the dark times, had moved to a different section, because of problems caused by the boss that continued to cause problems for years. (We had ~50% of the staff leave in one way or another under their reign.) At the new section, my pal was harassed, bullied, and received disparate treatment. This led to events which ultimately resulted in his death. I lay the blame at the feet of both the boss that I worked for and the management of the new section. And lest anyone forget him, I have his obituary hanging above my desk. His death was not by a gun. It was not on the job site, but the root cause was events at work.

Focus on the causes and the prevention. Prevention starts months and years ahead of time. See something, say something. Deal with people's grievances with sincere concern. (As an aside, I have had to personally report s..ual harassment by the same individual 3 times before it finally stopped. The first time the boss did nothing.) Hostile work environments breeds violence of all sorts. Deal with the root issues and the evil flower won't bloom.

@uncwilly: Well said, Sir.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;408933]I [B][U]am not[/U][/B] entering the gun debate. What I am saying is that there is a problem that is all around that doesn't need laws passed or changed to deal with. People over look it. This evening I heard a story that focus on the social and the video posted. That is not the problem. The problem is what happened at work.

In further versions of the story about today's events I heard that he said that he had been bullied at work. This was before the issue where he thought that he had been discriminated against and that management did not take his case seriously. Bullying is caustic. It is often one part of the issue that leads to any form of work place violence. I have seen the effects it had on a family member at school.

One of my co-workers that I had worked with during the dark times, had moved to a different section, because of problems caused by the boss that continued to cause problems for years. (We had ~50% of the staff leave in one way or another under their reign.) At the new section, my pal was harassed, bullied, and received disparate treatment. This led to events which ultimately resulted in his death. I lay the blame at the feet of both the boss that I worked for and the management of the new section. And lest anyone forget him, I have his obituary hanging above my desk. His death was not by a gun. It was not on the job site, but the root cause was events at work.

Focus on the causes and the prevention. Prevention starts months and years ahead of time. See something, say something. Deal with people's grievances with sincere concern. (As an aside, I have had to personally report s..ual harassment by the same individual 3 times before it finally stopped. The first time the boss did nothing.) Hostile work environments breeds violence of all sorts. Deal with the root issues and the evil flower won't bloom.[/QUOTE]

All good points in general, Uncwilly, but it's probably worth noting that in this particular case, the shooter had not worked at the job in question for two and a half years, so the opportunity to concentrate on the causes and the prevention was not really there.

[QUOTE=LaurV;408920]Priceless! And deep! Makes me think what should I do in that situation, what should be the best way to win? Empty your clip in the air and run out? Neeee... Some guys may stay in a corner shooting at guys who want to get out. But that may not be the best strategy either... Hm.. Deeeeeppp....[/QUOTE]

Yes, the interesting game-theoretic aspects occurred to me as well as soon as I started posting the scenario - but before anyone really spends time analyzing possible strategies (both 1-player and competitive/cooperative) I should probably clarify the debate rules a bit to eliminate loopholes. BTW, a perpetual-stalemate scenario in which no one gets out and all the remaining live players slowly starve to death, leaving no one with nomination, that works for me, too. :)

The Joys of "Campus Carry"
 

[url]http://jensorensen.com/2015/10/05/the-joys-of-campus-carry/[/url]

[URL="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/woman-in-michigan-charged-after-shooting-at-fleeing-shoplifters.html?_r=0"]Woman in Michigan Charged After Shooting at Fleeing Shoplifters[/URL]
[QUOTE]“We are grateful that nothing more serious happened as a result of the decision to fire a weapon in a busy parking lot,” the Auburn Hills police chief, Doreen Olko, said in the statement announcing the charge. “We do not encourage bystanders to insert themselves into incidents because of the potential for deadly consequences.”

Michigan’s state Constitution says a person has the right to keep and bear arms “for the defense of himself and the state.”

To use a concealed weapon in the state, a licensed holder needs to think that there is an imminent danger of death, great bodily harm or sexual assault, said Rick Ector, who runs Rick’s Firearm Academy of Detroit.[/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/"]People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year[/URL]
[QUOTE]After spending a few hours sifting through news reports, I've found at least 43 instances this year of somebody being shot by a toddler 3 or younger. In 31 of those 43 cases, a toddler found a gun and shot himself or herself.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=only_human;413041][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/"]People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year[/URL][/QUOTE]
I wonder about the break down of the owners of these guns. How many are NRA members? How many are in law enforcement? How many are well trained gun users? How many have a concealed carry permit? Etc.

[QUOTE=only_human;413041][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/14/people-are-getting-shot-by-toddlers-on-a-weekly-basis-this-year/"]People are getting shot by toddlers on a weekly basis this year[/URL][/QUOTE]
It's this sort of statistic that makes me believe that a fundamental shift of attitude is probably on the cards in the coming few years in the USA, as I predicted in this thread two and a half years ago. The USA public will wake up to the reality of the situation before this decade (the "2010s") is out. I think the constitutional change required to outlaw firearms by anyone except those with a licence to hold them will be achieved before 2020.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;413047]How many are NRA members? How many are in law enforcement? How many are well trained gun users? How many have a concealed carry permit? Etc.[/QUOTE]Probably all of them. :razz: