[QUOTE=retina;388874]They know that they don't know.[/QUOTE]
Those are called ignorants. :wink:

[QUOTE=LaurV;388880]Those are called ignorants. :wink:[/QUOTE]
Nah, an agnostic knows that he doesn't know what he doesn't know.
An ignoranting ignoramus doesn't even know that he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Ufff... you took as stone from my heart. This means I am agnostic... I was a bit worried... :razz:
What about if I know there is something I don't know but I don't know what?

[QUOTE=LaurV;388884]
What about if I know there is something I don't know but I don't know what?[/QUOTE]
Donald Rumsfeld was groping toward that point:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_known_knowns[/url]
[QUOTE]Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiPe1OiKQuk[/url]
[YouTube]GiPe1OiKQuk[/YouTube]

To the true agnostics, the ones who think that because they don't know
whether there is a God, no one knows whether there is a God:

There either is or isn't a God epistemologically a priori to your
considering the issue as a child. Now that you know you don't know,
you can consider the issue closed. That's for sure.
So you are entitled to know what you believe. Which is that
you don't know.

So now you can consider those who know there is no God as wrong.
Bravo.

[QUOTE=davar55;388924]To the true agnostics, the ones who think that because they don't know
whether there is a God, no one knows whether there is a God:

There either is or isn't a God epistemologically a priori to your
considering the issue as a child. Now that you know you don't know,
you can consider the issue closed. That's for sure.
So you are entitled to know what you believe. Which is that
you don't know.
[/QUOTE]

Congratulations on your high [fancy words]:[content] ratio. You have truly used an impressive amount of language to say absolutely bugger all.


[QUOTE=davar55;388924]To the true agnostics, the ones who think that because they don't know
whether there is a God, no one knows whether there is a God:[/QUOTE]

Is this supposed to be more troll horse crap used to spark fight?

I feel like this is supposed to be screw-you to anyone who believes that nobody can know if God exists or not.


Consider a similar opening statement: "To all of you people who think the sky is blue:" In the same way, you're accusing people of believing that the sky is blue.

[QUOTE=davar55;388924]To the true agnostics, the ones who think that because they don't know
whether there is a God, no one knows whether there is a God:

There either is or isn't a God epistemologically a priori to your
considering the issue as a child. Now that you know you don't know,
you can consider the issue closed. That's for sure.
So you are entitled to know what you believe. Which is that
you don't know.

So now you can consider those who know there is no God as wrong.
Bravo.[/QUOTE]Seriously?

If I flip a coin and cover it, you may be right that you don't know if it is heads, but others can have different information. Maybe they caught a glimpse before the coin was covered. So you can be right that you don't know but others may know without being wrong.

[QUOTE=only_human;388944]Seriously?
If I flip a coin and cover it, you may be right that you don't know if it is heads, but others can have different information. Maybe they caught a glimpse before the coin was covered. So you can be right that you don't know but others may know without being wrong.[/QUOTE]

Yes, an agnostic who is right that he doesn't know, may not know that the non-existence
of God has been utterly proven. Many times.

[QUOTE=TheMawn;388942]Congratulations on your high [fancy words]:[content] ratio. You have truly used an impressive amount of language to say absolutely bugger all.
...
I feel like this is supposed to be screw-you to anyone who believes that nobody can know if God exists or not.
[/QUOTE]

Not exactly. It is attempt to demonstrate that the agnostic position is wrong.

People who believe that nobody can know whether or not there is a God
are in conflict with other people who do know the answer to that issue,
namely the fact that God is non-existent. And that this has been proven many times.

Agnostics do not have truth, only indecisiveness.

[QUOTE=davar55;389183]Yes, an agnostic who is right that he doesn't know, may not know that the non-existence
of God has been utterly proven. Many times.[/QUOTE]
Ahem. My problem is with the assumption that holding this conclusion as true excludes other opinions from being right. As in this remark you made:
[QUOTE]So now you can consider those who know there is no God as wrong.[/QUOTE]In other you can be endlessly right that you do not know something but that in no way excludes others from knowing.

[QUOTE=only_human;389187]Ahem. My problem is with the assumption that holding this conclusion as true excludes other opinions from being right. As in this remark you made:
In other you can be endlessly right that you do not know something but that in no way excludes others from knowing.[/QUOTE]

Are opinions ever right when they conflict with an entirely valid proof?
It was someone's opinion. in law, that pi = 3. But Archimedes had
proven otherwise, and the law was repealed.

Same with any opinion or belief that a god exists.