I've followed this thread and haven't had anything to add. Now I do.

I recommend that moderators give temporary bans to trolls and others who deliberately insult specific individuals. All of us are expected to act like adults, but some people are using this thread to gang up on Bob by tossing out insults. In this thread, he has shown more maturity than many of the rest of you.

Note that this does not excuse Bob if he does the same. He already experienced a temporary ban once for that same behavior. It is clear to me that he is resisting the consistent flame-baiting by some of the other members.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;283323]And she has an Erdos number of 1. So the accusation was another example
of an ignoramous in this forum shooting his stupid mouth off without
knowing what he is talking about.[/QUOTE]Deaf, dumb [B]and [/B]blind.

[QUOTE=rogue;283328]I've followed this thread and haven't had anything to add. Now I do.

I recommend that moderators give temporary bans to trolls and others who deliberately insult specific individuals. All of us are expected to act like adults, but some people are using this thread to gang up on Bob by tossing out insults. In this thread, he has shown more maturity than many of the rest of you.

Note that this does not excuse Bob if he does the same. He already experienced a temporary ban once for that same behavior. It is clear to me that he is resisting the consistent flame-baiting by some of the other members.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the sentiment, but wouldn't go so far as to call for anyone's banning (even temporary).

So much nastiness, so little time.

Thread locked.

[QUOTE=jasonp;283335]So much nastiness, so little time.

Thread locked.[/QUOTE]So much fun in so little time. Thread re-opened.

Sorry Jason, but I respectfully disagree. Yes, some people here have been obnoxious to an entirely excessive degree but I believe they should be given an opportunity to apologise. They know who they are.

Some people have been obnoxious to an entirely tolerable degree (but this is the Soapbox, which is why their obnoxicity is tolerable). They also know who they are. For instance, I've been called a hypocrite and would like to see a clarification of and/or justification for that remark.

Paul

[QUOTE=xilman;283344]Yes, some people here have been obnoxious to an entirely excessive degree but I believe they should be given an opportunity to apologise. They know who they are.[/QUOTE]
Could I start by apologizing for my unnecessary sneer in post #39 and repeat [URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=184084&postcount=9"]something I said[/URL] a long time ago. It's applies just as much today as it did then.

[QUOTE]As a crank myself I have personally benefited from Dr Silverman's help here on this forum. I felt slightly silly afterwards because he roundly corrected me, but I was delighted to have my questions (they were about factorising methods) directly answered for free by a noted expert. Please don't ask him to stop helping others.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;282743]If I speak to an S[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]ubject[/COLOR][/SIZE]M[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]atter[/COLOR][/SIZE]E[SIZE="1"][COLOR="Gray"]xpert[/COLOR][/SIZE] and ask questions, that does not make me a student. I have spoken to (years ago) a bona fide 'rocket scientist' about the development of a whole new class of rocket (now coming to fruition). My simple questions did not make me a student of rocket science. Journalists frequently ask questions of SME's and are not made into students by such questions.[/QUOTE]Bob, can you address my assertion and examples?

[QUOTE]And she has an Erdos number of 1. So the accusation was another example
of an ignoramous in this forum shooting his stupid mouth off without
knowing what he is talking about. [/QUOTE]

But Bob, I already knew that she had an Erdos number of 1. Whats more, I know what an Erdos number of 1 means. So presuming I already knew these things, what makes you think my statement was anything more or less than bait which you are ardently chewing on?

Besides, I have an ex-wife too. They are difficult things with no heart and a big mouth so I can empathize.

But lest you think we are all ganging up on you, I would like to state clearly that this forum benefits from having you around. We just have to show forbearance and understanding a bit more often than we are inclined.

DarJones

[QUOTE=Fusion_power;283253]You have to wonder if Bob treated his wife as a "student".[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=davieddy;283308]Can't fool me. There ain't no sanity clause.

Chico Marx

Merry Christmas to all:smile:[/QUOTE]
= W[B]arning! Humour mode engaged[/B]
[QUOTE=davieddy;283313]She ain't no lady student.
She's his ex-wife.

David
(one who knows)[/QUOTE]
(Hardly seen my two sons in 20 years}
[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;283323]And she has an Erdos number of 1. So the accusation was another example
of an ignoramous in this forum shooting his stupid mouth off without
knowing what he is talking about.[/QUOTE]
WTF has her Erdos number got to do with it?
Did the great man despise "students"?
[QUOTE=davieddy;283330]Deaf, dumb [B]and [/B]blind.[/QUOTE]
(Basil Fawlty)

This is as far as I am prepared to go by way of apology.
Please don't tell me Bob didn't recognize
"She's no lady. She's my wife".

David

(Mally number 5)

I'm sorry for telling you "putting people down" as it seems to hit a rock inside you.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;283687]It's better than being a total imbecile such as yourself.[/QUOTE]

Your repeated feeble attempts at mathematics show you to be totally
clueless.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;283688]Your repeated feeble attempts at mathematics show you to be totally
clueless.[/QUOTE]I have to concur: you never resort to personal insults.

(That was no insult; that was an evaluation.)

WC Fields(?)
 

[QUOTE=cheesehead;284086](That was no insult; that was an evaluation.)[/QUOTE]
She's no lady. She's my wife.

Beat this one
 

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;283688]Your repeated feeble attempts at mathematics show you to be totally
clueless.[/QUOTE]

When I was 12 I came 2nd in the under15 Norfolk chess championship and won the "Best Game" prize.

My skoolwork lapsed a bit, and I scored 12% in History.

The report (Biffo Bawden) read:

"Indolence and carelessness have produced this abysmal result."

David

[QUOTE=davieddy;284156]When I was 12 I came 2nd in the under15 Norfolk chess championship and won the "Best Game" prize.

My skoolwork lapsed a bit, and I scored 12% in History.

The report (Biffo Bawden) read:

"Indolence and carelessness have produced this abysmal result."

David[/QUOTE]

The sentence that you quote originally came from a DIFFERENT thread
in a different sub-forum. It was in response to SaneMur calling me
an arrogant SOB in the "questions & answers" sub-forum.

I originally [b]ignored[/b] the superficial attempt by SaneMur. It was
not until he posted a direct insult that I responded.

One of the moderators moved the post to this thread.

It

I was simply relating an 8-word "put-down" from 1962,
which (evidently) I remember to this day.
The next term I came top in History, but my chess has never been the same since:(

David

BTW don't take this as an endorsement of that pedagogic style.

[QUOTE=cheesehead;284086](That was no insult; that was an evaluation.)[/QUOTE]To avert further misunderstanding:

That post of mine was intended as a humorous, fictitious [I]fake-attribution of thought to Mr. Silverman[/I]. (Yes, it's also an homage to W.C.Fields's "That was no lady; that was my wife'".)

In that context, "insult" referred to Mr. Silverman's statements that other posters characterized as insults, and "evaluation" was intended to be a fictitious correction/substitution for "insult" by Mr. Silverman.

You know I love both you and Bob...
 

[QUOTE=cheesehead;284428]To avert further misunderstanding:

That post of mine was intended as a humorous, fictitious [I]fake-attribution of thought to Mr. Silverman[/I]. (Yes, it's also an homage to W.C.Fields's "That was no lady; that was my wife'".)

In that context, "insult" referred to Mr. Silverman's statements that other posters characterized as insults, and "evaluation" was intended to be a fictitious correction/substitution for "insult" by Mr. Silverman.[/QUOTE]

...but when in a hole: [B]STOP DIGGING[/B]

David

[QUOTE=davieddy;284439]...but when in a hole: [B]STOP DIGGING[/B]

David[/QUOTE]
What's a hole in this context, David? ([I]In this context[/I], please.:smile:)

If a hole means an untenable position for which your arguments have been discredited, then I agree with you. You stop digging, apologize if appropriate and acknowledge the change which this means in your view of things. But I don't think that's what's going on here.

If a hole is a standpoint which is valid but unpopular to the point that no-one else agrees with you, then I think you should strengthen and maintain it. It takes courage and conviction plus a thick skin. You especially have to protect the standpoint from being misrepresented and you need to judge carefully how hard you should dig in to achieve this without being counterproductive. Of course, it can sometimes become appropriate to say "enough is enough" and put the shovel and spade back in the tool shed, certainly if there are more important things to do.

Hey Brian: easy tiger
 

I suspect I am on Bob's "sometimes ignore unless I can find a suitable insult" list. I have recently been in PM touch with Richard, and have the greatest confidence he will sort out anything worth sorting.
Meantime, always a pleasure to hear from you, and Happy New Year.

David

[QUOTE=davieddy;284470]I suspect I am on Bob's "sometimes ignore unless I can find a suitable insult" list. I have recently been in PM touch with Richard, and have the greatest confidence he will sort out anything worth sorting.
Meantime, always a pleasure to hear from you, and Happy New Year.

David[/QUOTE]
You too, David. Let's hope 2012 turns out to be the year of peace and harmony on mersenneforum.org.
Brian.

And here I was hoping 2012 would be a year of deep divides and lots of controversy..... for all the right reasons. We humans tend to get in a rut and achieve nothing as long as we are comfortable. It is only when we are challenged and forced to think and improvise that we make major changes.

Besides, the person who taught me the most in life was the one who argued longest, loudest, and most vehemently with me. My grandfather and I argued a topic for over 20 years before finally agreeing that the problem did not exist any more. I learned more from those arguments than words can tell.

DarJones

[QUOTE=Brian-E;284504]You too, David. Let's hope 2012 turns out to be the year of peace and harmony on mersenneforum.org.
Brian.[/QUOTE]Spoilsport:smile:

D

Did I win this one?
 

I queried something Marcus du Sautoy said in his highly entertaining and instructive book on prime numbers.

Bob's response was "Don't read popular books".

Me: "OK then. I'll stick to unpopular ones".

David

PS In case you are doubting my veracity, even Raymond Chandler couldn't make this one up.

[QUOTE=Fusion_power;284511]My grandfather and I argued a topic for over 20 years before finally agreeing that the problem did not exist any more.
DarJones[/QUOTE]

God?
Or respect for your elders?

David

[QUOTE=xilman;283344]So much fun in so little time. Thread re-opened.

Sorry Jason, but I respectfully disagree. Yes, some people here have been obnoxious to an entirely excessive degree but I believe they should be given an opportunity to apologise. They know who they are.

Some people have been obnoxious to an entirely tolerable degree (but this is the Soapbox, which is why their obnoxicity is tolerable). They also know who they are. For instance, I've been called a hypocrite and would like to see a clarification of and/or justification for that remark.

Paul[/QUOTE]

I believe that you have acted hypocritically because you seem to tolerate
posts from others that would get me banned. Another admin locked
this thread. But you found the repeated taunts sufficiently Ok to re-open it.

I quote you: "some people here have been obnoxious to an entirely excessive degree"

Yet these people have not been banned. This is a &*!*## DOUBLE
STANDARD.

Davieddy has been repeatedly posting taunts and insults. Yet I do not
see him being banned. Indeed. In a post that originated elsewhere
but know appears in the "useless posts by davar55...." thread, davieddy
said:

"Hope you got my PM.

What you deleted took quite a bit of thought.

Is your mental age>2? "

to Tom Womack. The last comment would definitely get me banned.
You are a moderator. Why have you not banned him? He posted
[b]repeated[/b] taunts in that same thread.

I think the problem is that the moderating system is, necessarily imperfect...it's human, after all, not mathematics....notice that even the moderators disagree on closing this thread!

As I suggested before, you SHOULD hold yourself to a higher standard, but I'm betting my copy of "Counterexamples in Topology" you aren't capable...and davieddy has gotten himself banned for short periods, too....

[QUOTE=Christenson;285156]I think the problem is that the moderating system is, necessarily imperfect...it's human, after all, not mathematics....notice that even the moderators disagree on closing this thread!

As I suggested before, you SHOULD hold yourself to a higher standard, but I'm betting my copy of "Counterexamples in Topology" you aren't capable...and davieddy has gotten himself banned for short periods, too....[/QUOTE]

It's not just the system. Some (perhaps quite a few) posters seem to
go out of their way to take offense even when none is given/intended.
They look for reasons to be offended or find ways to deliberately interpret things in the worst possible way. This is a common phenomenon on the .net

It might also be the (incredibly hard-to-convey) tone. Everyone knows the davieddy generally doesn't have anything serious to contribute, and 95%+ of his posts aren't. So anything he posts... is generally ignored? It's kind of like the difference between the teacher and the student who just can't pay attention to anything in the classroom. He fills that role, and so we instinctively care less about what he says, whereas if the teacher says that, he'll get in trouble with the principal.

To put it slightly differently, you come across much more mature, so we expect you to act more so (not trying to knock on davieddy here, it's just this stuff is very hard on the internet). I think that's what Christenson is trying to say.

I had a lot of trouble putting this to words (I am, afterall, a STEM major, not English), so if it doesn't make sense or seems insulting, I'm sorry, that was not my intent.

Edit: Whoops, cross post. Pretend this comes straight after Christenson.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;285153]I believe that you have acted hypocritically because you seem to tolerate posts from others that would get me banned.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you quite understand why you were banned; I did give an explanation at [url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=278932&postcount=71[/url].

[QUOTE] Another admin locked this thread. But you found the repeated taunts sufficiently Ok to re-open it.
[/QUOTE]

I would be wary of accusing Paul of acting in bad faith; he said that he opened the thread in order to give people who'd been acting unreasonably a chance to apologise, and some of them did.

[quote] (from davieddy)"Hope you got my PM.

What you deleted took quite a bit of thought.

Is your mental age>2? "

to Tom Womack. The last comment would definitely get me banned.[/QUOTE]

I assure you that it wouldn't, at least not by me, and I doubt that I come across to the other moderators as so fragile a creature that they would ban you to save my feelings. It [b]would[/b] make me rather worried about you, since it's completely out of character for you.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;285157]It's not just the system. Some (perhaps quite a few) posters seem to go out of their way to take offense even when none is given/intended.
They look for reasons to be offended or find ways to deliberately interpret things in the worst possible way. This is a common phenomenon on the .net[/QUOTE]

This is true, but I've found that it is often possible to write messages to people you don't know from Adam in such a way that they are difficult to take as offensive ... I think it's a skill that I learned painfully when TAing first-year linear algebra for a class of 75 prospective engineers who could not, after four weeks of lectures, reliably distinguish a matrix from a warthog given a copy of Golub & van Loan and a bag of warthog food.

[QUOTE=fivemack;285167] Golub & van Loan .[/QUOTE]

Good book!

If you want your own subforum where you can delete and edit ALL posts and threads just let us know. You can have complete control.

We are very serious. We think it would be an asset to the forum as a whole.

:cool:

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;285153]I believe that you have acted hypocritically because you seem to tolerate
posts from others that would get me banned. Another admin locked
this thread. But you found the repeated taunts sufficiently Ok to re-open it.

I quote you: "some people here have been obnoxious to an entirely excessive degree"

Yet these people have not been banned. This is a &*!*## DOUBLE
STANDARD.

Davieddy has been repeatedly posting taunts and insults. Yet I do not
see him being banned. Indeed. In a post that originated elsewhere
but know appears in the "useless posts by davar55...." thread, davieddy
said:

"Hope you got my PM.

What you deleted took quite a bit of thought.

Is your mental age>2? "

to Tom Womack. The last comment would definitely get me banned.
You are a moderator. Why have you not banned him? He posted
[B]repeated[/B] taunts in that same thread.[/QUOTE]

Do you understand the difference between ">" and "<" ?

The trouble with trying to interpret the "useless posts" thread is that either the context is lost, as Dubslow has just moaned about via PM, or written (if you could call it that) by the likes of the late lamented cmd.

Lighten up folks, and try to make your insults a bit more personal in future.

Or this penguin will ram his remote control straight up your Khyber.

David

[QUOTE=Xyzzy;285174]If you want your own subforum where you can delete and edit ALL posts and threads just let us know. You can have complete control.

We are very serious. We think it would be an asset to the forum as a whole.

:cool:[/QUOTE]
But less fun Mikes.

Or was that Bikes?

D

[QUOTE=Dubslow;285164]It might also be the (incredibly hard-to-convey) tone. Everyone knows the davieddy generally doesn't have anything serious to contribute, and 95%+ of his posts aren't. So anything he posts... is generally ignored? It's kind of like the difference between the teacher and the student who just can't pay attention to anything in the classroom. He fills that role, and so we instinctively care less about what he says, whereas if the teacher says that, he'll get in trouble with the principal.

To put it slightly differently, you come across much more mature, so we expect you to act more so (not trying to knock on davieddy here, it's just this stuff is very hard on the internet). I think that's what Christenson is trying to say.

I had a lot of trouble putting this to words (I am, afterall, a STEM major, not English), so if it doesn't make sense or seems insulting, I'm sorry, that was not my intent.

Edit: Whoops, cross post. Pretend this comes straight after Christenson.[/QUOTE]
Christenson is actually hoping that Mr Silverman WILL act better...and is offering a math book (maybe it should have been a new copy of Golub and Van Loan, 3rd edition instead, or Shilov's Linear Algebra), escrowed with a moderator, as an inducement. Mr Silverman, make me wrong!

Believe it or not, I can guess the history...and hope it can be overcome.

Talking in the third person?
 

[QUOTE=Christenson;285191]Christenson is actually hoping that Mr Silverman WILL act better...and is offering a math book (maybe it should have been a new copy of Golub and Van Loan, 3rd edition instead, or Shilov's Linear Algebra), escrowed with a moderator, as an inducement. Mr Silverman, make me wrong!

Believe it or not, I can guess the history...and hope it can be overcome.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8NJ8T0T4uI&feature=endscreen&NR=1]Enjoy[/url]

David

AAFK
 

[QUOTE=Dubslow;285164]Everyone knows the davieddy generally doesn't have anything serious to contribute, and 95%+ of his posts aren't. So anything he posts... is generally ignored? It's kind of like the difference between the teacher and the student who just can't pay attention to anything in the classroom. He fills that role, and so we instinctively care less about what he says, whereas if the teacher says that, he'll get in trouble with the principal.
[/QUOTE]
I thought one of my brightest pupils might have understood more than 5% of my outpourings.

I'd cane you, but in these PC days you'll just have to settle for a spell of detention.

David

Just because I don't understand the content doesn't mean I don't understand the spirit.
(By the way, I said 95% of your posts aren't serious contributions -- not that I couldn't understand them. On the other hand, regardless of your misinterpretation, you still managed to [url=stumbleupon.com]stumble upon[/url] the tru7h. I can't make heads or tails out of the vast majority of what you post.)

No need to apologise.
 

[QUOTE=Dubslow;285205]Just because I don't understand the content doesn't mean I don't understand the spirit.
(By the way, I said 95% of your posts aren't serious contributions -- not that I couldn't understand them. On the other hand, regardless of your misinterpretation, you still managed to [URL="http://stumbleupon.com"]stumble upon[/URL] the tru7h. I can't make heads or tails out of the vast majority of what you post.)[/QUOTE]
Anyways
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0DJ8hWgNes]Too late to stop now[/url]

David