[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;282905]Did you see the movie "The Paper Chase"???

Think of me as Prof. Kingsfield. Students despise him. He tortures them.
But, [i]for students who really want to learn the law[/i] he really gets
them to understand what it is about.

He gets the best out of dedicated students.
And does not care about the rest.[/QUOTE]And some of us do care about the rest. Quite often we care enough about them to attempt to repair the damage you have done to their enthusiasm and self-esteem.

[QUOTE=xilman;282910]And some of us do care about the rest. Quite often we care enough about them to attempt to repair the damage you have done to their enthusiasm and self-esteem.[/QUOTE]

Damage to self esteem? OK. I will concede that. But it is a tough world.
If they can't handle citicism they will have a real problem dealing with
e.g. their bosses.

Damage to their enthusiasm? I do not concede that. I contend that it
was their lack of enthusiasm that was the cause of any problems in the
first place.

I see a distinct lack of enthusiasm for learning from a [i]majority[/i] of
the posters herein. Many have shown outright disdain for learning.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;282913]I see a distinct lack of enthusiasm for learning from a [I]majority[/I] of the posters herein. Many have shown outright disdain for learning.[/QUOTE]
How is that your problem?

[QUOTE=Random Poster;282942]How is that your problem?[/QUOTE]

An old saying: "If it is worth doing, then it is worth doing well".

And the attitude that one deserves credit for a superficial effort
is a generic problem for all of society.

Mr. Silverman,

I've noticed an uptick in your mistaking-this-forum-for-your-own-classroom index recently.

.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;282913]Damage to self esteem? OK. I will concede that. But it is a tough world.
If they can't handle citicism they will have a real problem dealing with
e.g. their bosses.
[/QUOTE]

Those who live in glass houses.....


How are you at handling criticism Bob? Especially from your bosses?

[QUOTE=garo;282960]Those who live in glass houses.....


How are you at handling criticism Bob? Especially from your bosses?[/QUOTE]

You would not believe any response I would make.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;282963]You would not believe any response I would make.[/QUOTE]

Also, throughout this discussion I have not made any personal comments
toward those disagreeing with me. Why is it necessary for you to resort to
such?

[QUOTE=wblipp;282729]
I agree that by and large the American educational system beats the love of learning out of students. It gets replaced by a greed for grades. But I don't think we are part of that educational system here, and even if we are, I don't think we can beat the love learning back into the students with a stick.

John Dewey's educational philosophy, called "Progressive Education," has a lot to say about ways to preserve and perhaps reignite love of learning - he doesn't think a stick is helpful, either.[/QUOTE]
That's unfortunate. I, for one, spent 1st-9th grade at a school who's motto literally is "For the Love of Learning". I don't know nuthin' 'bout this here John Doo-ee, but this hear-say I've been readin' (read-say?) sure does sound a lot like the 'Montessori method' -- named for the for Italian woman to get a PhD, and she did it by studying children. (By total uncoincidence, that school I mentioned is a Montessori school.) I know of one Montessori high school in the US/World -- and there's talk of being a new one in Chicagoland.

Now of course my high school (IMSA) did and does manage to beat the love of learning put of most of its students -- they're usually happy with passing grades, much less A's. I survived mostly on an ability to get A's in STEM classes with little to no effort.

I for one still have my love of learning, and my last good experience was probably sometime right before finals started. For the record, UIUC's PHYS 225 is an excellent class for actual learning, as opposed to just grades. Excellent worksheets and homework towards that end, though of course being a physicist-taught course some of the math wasn't quite theoretically sound, but I'm probably the only one who cared. (Regardless of the LoL (lol) anyone know when my final's grade comes out? :smile:)

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;282913]
Damage to their enthusiasm? I do not concede that. I contend that it
was their lack of enthusiasm that was the cause of any problems in the
first place.

I see a distinct lack of enthusiasm for learning from a [i]majority[/i] of
the posters herein. Many have shown outright disdain for learning.[/QUOTE]I suggest that perhaps you should have used "misplaced enthusiasm" rather than "lack of enthusiasm".

Paul

[QUOTE=xilman;283027]I suggest that perhaps you should have used "misplaced enthusiasm" rather than "lack of enthusiasm".

Paul[/QUOTE]
I wonder how often you and Dr. Silverman and all other experts here get questioned by journalists of general newspapers and magazines who have not studied Mathematics in any depth but who wish to write an article about your work for a general readership. The readers are just as unwilling to study as the journalist who must write the article and then move on to other subjects. Both journalist and general readership do however have a passing interest in what, say, algebraic number theorists are working on. Is this enthusiasm also "misplaced"?