[QUOTE=science_man_88;247780]what I sent you was correct about my family.

okay what format ? I have 7 zip lol it seems to have a million different ways.

the new one I just replaced it with good ? that's using add to archive.[/QUOTE]

Science Man 88:

You admit you are playing a game here. That's fair.

But please understand that there may be downside to you...

[QUOTE=chalsall;247783]Science Man 88:

You admit you are playing a game here. That's fair.

But please understand that there may be downside to you...[/QUOTE]

why is telling you what I told you about my family is correct and then asking you what format would be helpful a game( wait do I want to know?)? all I zipped was a .ods document with a few numbers to set up a graph with.

[QUOTE=science_man_88;247787]why is telling you what I told you about my family is correct and then asking you what format would be helpful a game( wait do I want to know?)? all I zipped was a .ods document with a few numbers to set up a graph with.[/QUOTE]

Then ZIP your file in a format which can be unzipped by we simple Unix users.

[CODE]unzip myunderstanding.zip
Archive: myunderstanding.zip
skipping: myunderstanding.ods need PK compat. v4.6 (can do v2.1)
[/CODE]

Interestingly, I was able to unzip your previous attachment without issue.

[QUOTE=chalsall;247789]Then ZIP your file in a format which can be unzipped by we simple Unix users.

[CODE]unzip myunderstanding.zip
Archive: myunderstanding.zip
skipping: myunderstanding.ods need PK compat. v4.6 (can do v2.1)
[/CODE]

Interestingly, I was able to unzip your previous attachment without issue.[/QUOTE]

my first thing i had it do was how I zipped earlier today.

what I've just uploaded contains one of both the one ending in 2 is 7zip zipped the other is winRAR zipped.

[QUOTE=science_man_88;247777][QUOTE=jyb;247775]I don't know what you mean by that. What does it mean for a line to have "accepted values"? And what would something that is "somewhat like a graph for a line" look like? Please try to be precise in your wording so we don't have to spend time trying to figure out what you might have meant. Ask yourself this: if someone else had written what you wrote, do you think you would know what they meant?

In any case, when I asked you what S x S "looked like", I probably made you think about pictures and graphs, which was not at all my intention. What I really meant was this: can you describe S x S in a succinct way? Hint: Keep in mind what the Cartesian product of {a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h} x {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8} was.[/QUOTE]

something like the graph in the attached file but without the line and only the integers are allowed values.[/QUOTE]

Did you read anything I wrote above? "Something like the graph..." and "allowed values" are meaningless, and I don't want a picture. I want a succinct description. Pictures can sometimes be helpful tools for understanding, but in this case I think they are getting in your way and will confuse you (all your talk about the "x and y plane" earlier leads me to this conclusion). So please, give me a short description of S x S [B]in words[/B]. Look at your own chess example in post #75 for inspiration.

[QUOTE=science_man_88;247562]like are the sets that come together to form the names of chess squares {a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h} and {1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8} and the 2-tuples that represent the squares more directly are ((a,1),(a,2),(a,3),...,(h,8))? Am I far off ?[/QUOTE]

All this brings back is (a,1) is a 2-tuple.This looks the same as the format in the definition of binary relation so [TEX]\therefore[/TEX] R seems to be made of 2-tuples from S[TEX]\times[/TEX]S and that's about as far as I can get using the definition. I know theres some relation between them. As for S[TEX]\times[/TEX]S it's all the values is S paired up with all the values from S.

[QUOTE=science_man_88;247771]I'd imagine it looks somewhat like a graph for a line where 1,2,3,4,5 are the only accepted values.[/QUOTE]

I *did* understand this, and your attachment confirmed the understanding. But that's not right: the Cartesian product is like the 25 points on that graph, not the line.

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;247798]I *did* understand this, and your attachment confirmed the understanding. But that's not right: the Cartesian product is like the 25 points on that graph, not the line.[/QUOTE]

I thought I said without a line I swear but thanks for explaining in case.

[QUOTE=science_man_88;247797]All this brings back is (a,1) is a 2-tuple.This looks the same as the format in the definition of binary relation so [TEX]\therefore[/TEX] R seems to be made of 2-tuples from S[TEX]\times[/TEX]S[/QUOTE]

Right. (For convenience, mathematicians have a special term "ordered pair" for 2-tuple; they usually even drop the word "ordered" and call them pairs.)

Challenge question: If S is {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} and S x S is {(1, 1), (1, 2), ..., (4, 5), (5, 5)} there are 5 elements in S and 25 elements in S x S. How many binary relations are there on S?

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;247801]Right. (For convenience, mathematicians have a special term "ordered pair" for 2-tuple; they usually even drop the word "ordered" and call them pairs.)

Challenge question: If S is {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} and S x S is {(1, 1), (1, 2), ..., (4, 5), (5, 5)} there are 5 elements in S and 25 elements in S x S. How many binary relations are there on S?[/QUOTE]

well if each 2-tuple has one relation on it then it would have to be 25. If you say less than,less than or equal to, equal to, greater than or equal to, and greater than , then it's at least 5 but my best guess is 25.

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;247801]Right. (For convenience, mathematicians have a special term "ordered pair" for 2-tuple; they usually even drop the word "ordered" and call them pairs.)

Challenge question: If S is {1, 2, 3, 4, 5} and S x S is {(1, 1), (1, 2), ..., (4, 5), (5, 5)} there are 5 elements in S and 25 elements in S x S. How many binary relations are there on S?[/QUOTE]

An excellent question, but one I don't think he's anywhere close to being able to answer. But we'll see.

As one quick check, sm please answer this multiple-choice question:

The Cartesian product of two sets S and T is:
A) a set
B) a graph
C) a plane
D) a line
E) all of the above
F) none of the above