Republicans rejoice we finally have proof of actual voter fraud! [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0CL1QPTAqs&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=5&feature=plcp"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0CL1QPTAqs&list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ&index=5&feature=plcp[/URL]

oh Crap! Nevermind! Look over there Gay-Flag-Burning-Nazi-Socialists want to rape your daughters so they can force them to have abortions!

Ahh, the politics of distracting the voters from any thought of real issues...brought to you by First Federal Two Party System (Member FDIC)

@ZetaFlux:

[QUOTE]Perhaps three more questions?
[LIST][*] Has "God" been a god forever or did he become a god?[*]If "God" became a god, is this path to godhood available to you?[*]If Mormons believe other Christians are kinda okay, is there a reciprocal agreement with, for example, the Catholic Church regarding baptisms?[/LIST][/QUOTE]

Xyzzy,

Sorry, I missed your questions the first time.

Let's start with the easy one first.

1. If Mormons believe other Christians are kinda okay, is there a reciprocal agreement with, for example, the Catholic Church regarding baptisms?

Our church believes that baptism must be done by authority from God. We believe that authority, or priesthood power, is only found in our church and that it is only conferred by God. It is the power to seal/bind covenants made on earth to be effective in heaven. Thus, we believe God recognizes no baptism as eternally binding unless performed by this priesthood power. (This is not to say we believe God does not approve of a sincere person doing the best they can, according to what they understand.) While we believe baptism is a commandment from God, we also believe that it is available after we die. (Thus, those who had no opportunity to accept or reject it in this world, will have a chance as spirits.)

As I understand it, the Catholic church does not recognize our baptisms, but for a different reason. They believe our understanding of God is sufficiently different from theirs (e.g. Mormons don't accept the creeds as authoritative) that when we baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost they don't believe we are referring to the same beings.

Here is a [URL="http://www.ewtn.com/library/theology/mormbap1.htm"]website[/URL] from the Catholic point of view, which gives a few other reasons. (I skimmed it, and I think I represented their position accurately. However, I don't think all of the things they claim about our beliefs are accurate.)

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2. Has "God" been a god forever or did he become a god?

In Mormon belief, there is no systematic theology. So, what I say here is from my best understanding currently, on what has been revealed and how I understand it. Others probably would answer your question (perhaps significantly) differently than I would.

I suppose one could similarly ask, "Has Christ been a god forever or did he become a god?" We believe Christ was part of the Godhead (consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) before he was born. We believe Christ grew from grace to grace while a mortal man. And we believe Christ was resurrected and exalted with his Father.

Similarly, we believe that we are the spiritual offspring of God. Gods-in-embryo so to speak. That we can grow from grace to grace (although it will take us much longer) just as Christ did. And, eventually, we can be exalted with Christ. It is as Christ prayed in the great intercessory prayer: that we may be one with him [i]as he is one with the Father[/i]. We hope that we can come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

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3. If "God" became a god, is this path to godhood available to you?

We believe that God's greatest work and joy is to the bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. We understand eternal life to mean more than living forever, but to live forever with Christ and as Christ does.

Or, to put it bluntly, we will not be spending eternity sitting around playing harps. We will be learning and growing.

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;312933]We believe that authority, or priesthood power, is only found in our church and that it is only conferred by God. It is the power to seal/bind covenants made on earth to be effective in heaven. Thus, we believe God recognizes no baptism as eternally binding unless performed by this priesthood power.[/QUOTE]

So, to paraphrase...

You (and so many other belief systems) believe that somehow you and yours are the only ones who are blessed by God? And, thus, that everyone else who believes differently are wrong?

[QUOTE=chalsall;312939]So, to paraphrase...

You (and so many other belief systems) believe that somehow you and yours are the only ones who are blessed by God?[/QUOTE]Not at all. In fact, I think I explicitly said otherwise. If it wasn't clear, let me make it clear now.

I believe God judges us according to our intent and the light and knowledge we have.

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;312946]Not at all. In fact, I think I explicitly said otherwise.[/QUOTE]

You said: [QUOTE=Zeta-Flux]Our church believes that baptism must be done by authority from God. We believe that authority, or priesthood power, is only found in our church and that it is only conferred by God.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;312946]If it wasn't clear, let me make it clear now.

I believe God judges us according to our intent and the light and knowledge we have.[/QUOTE]

Are you willing to accept the possibility that your god may not be my (or others') god, but is, at the end of the day, the same God?

Since you have no proof (and cannot, by definition), the logical answer is "yes". But as we all know, religion rarely relies on logic....

[QUOTE=chalsall;312949]You said:
[/QUOTE]

He said that they believe that only their baptisms are valid. That does not mean they believe that God only likes them. The former does not imply the latter, and Zeta-Flux has pointed out more than once that the latter is not true.

Edit: He was about as explicit as could possibly be.
[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;312933]
Our church believes that baptism must be done by authority from God. We believe that authority, or priesthood power, is only found in our church and that it is only conferred by God. It is the power to seal/bind covenants made on earth to be effective in heaven. Thus, we believe God recognizes no baptism as eternally binding unless performed by this priesthood power. [U](This is not to say we believe God does not approve of a sincere person doing the best they can, according to what they understand.) While we believe baptism is a commandment from God, we also believe that it is available after we die. (Thus, those who had no opportunity to accept or reject it in this world, will have a chance as spirits.)[/U][/QUOTE]

_______________________________________________________________________________


To get slightly more back on topic...
[url]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/why-i-refuse-to-vote-for-barack-obama/262861/[/url]

Johnson. :judge:

[QUOTE=Dubslow;312953]He said that they believe that only their baptisms are valid. That does not mean they believe that God only likes them. The former does not imply the latter, and Zeta-Flux has pointed out more than once that the latter is not true.[/QUOTE]

Follow the logic... It's a bit like "follow the money..."

If only their baptisms are valid, "and [baptism] is only conferred by God", where does that lead?

[QUOTE=chalsall;312956]Follow the logic... It's a bit like "follow the money..."

If only their baptisms are valid, "and [baptism] is only conferred by God", where does that lead?[/QUOTE]

One does not need to be baptised to be blessed by God, going by what Zeta-Flux said. Only the Mormons are properly baptised, fine, but that doesn't mean God hates everyone else. Like we've said three times now.

[QUOTE=Dubslow;312958]One does not need to be baptised to be blessed by God, going by what Zeta-Flux said. Only the Mormons are properly baptised, fine, but that doesn't mean God hates everyone else. Like we've said three times now.[/QUOTE]

You fail to understand.

Catholics are also baptised.

But for some reason the Catholics and the Mormons don't agree on who actually has the licence on the "real" god.

Imagine (or, better yet, look) at what happens when people can't agree on which is the "real" god....

[QUOTE][URL]http://www.mormonthink.com/christian.htm[/URL][/QUOTE][url]http://news.yahoo.com/mormon-website-editors-church-discipline-hearing-suspended-021423663.html[/url]