Need help deciding between Athlon II X4 620 and i5
 

So I am thinking of an early Xmas upgrade and was going to with the i5-750 but now it seems that the 620 provides the best bang for buck. 4 cores for 90 bucks. What's not to like? So a few questions:

1. The i5 does not have any memory bottlenecks resulting in a slow-down with 4 cores running LLs. Does anyone have experience with the X4 620? If there is a slowdown, how bad is it?

2. I've been looking at el cheapo ones with integrated video. I understand that a lot of the newer integrated video mobos have an actual graphics card as opposed to a "integrated graphics controller" and would thus not cause a slow-down compared to running video card. Is this correct?

3. Any recommendations on a motherboard that will allow a small overclock. I'm thinking 2.66->3.00 or thereabouts. I've looked at the Asus M2N68-AM, M3N78-AM/VM and M4N78-AM/VM and M4A78-VM. A bit confused with all these options/ Also looked at GA-MA770-UD3 but that does not have graphics.

4 All of these are DDR2 mobos. Would CL4 PC2-6400 be sufficient? Or should I go for something like [URL="http://www.memoryc.com/products/description/4GB_G_Skill_DDR2_PC2_9600_Ripjaw_Series-6_6_6-Dual_Channel_kit/index.html"]4GB G.Skill DDR2 PC2-9600 Ripjaw Series (6-6-6) Dual Channel kit[/URL] to keep the 4 cores fed?

I will use this as the main desktop at home running prime95 but no games.

In the same game here. Looking at the i5.
Your note prompts a couple questions of my own:
1. If a MB does not have integrated video do I have to get a separate video card? Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question
2. You mention DDR2 yet most systems / bundles on NewEgg recommend or include DDR3. I had assumed it was better suited for i5/i7. Should I stick with DDR2 for performance or is it just still cheaper?

1. Yes.
2. I was referring to mobos for the Athlon II. i5 systems will do better with DDR3 - I think. At least most Intel mobos support DDR3.

Garo,

As you are not running games, and Prime95 is surely high on your priorities :whistle:, I would recommend the Core i5 on a GA-P55M-UD2, and 4 or 8 Gb of DDR3-1600. Granted, the mobo doesn´t have integrated video, but it has PCI slots, and you´ll for sure find in your scrapbox an old video card that will suit your needs. The mobo is a great bang for the buck, excellent overclocker, very reasonable power consumption, overall good build quality. As for the i5, well, it´s currently the dream CPU for GIMPSters on a budget.

But does it beat the X4 620 for bang for buck? Where I am, it is almost half the price of the i5.

[quote=garo;194868]But does it beat the X4 620 for bang for buck? Where I am, it is almost half the price of the i5.[/quote]
benchmark wise i found my Athlon II 620 x4 performed similar to my Q6600 except maybe faster for trial factoring
this was with DDR3 memory

Did you run four LLs at the same time? Was there a performance hit as opposed to running one LL/three TFs? Two of each? 3/1?
Thanks!

I can´t directly answer your question, for I haven´t made any tests.
But have a look at the following article:
[URL]http://www.techspot.com/review/197-amd-athlon2-x4-620/page3.html[/URL]
[CENTER]It is at least a clear indication that the mem bandwith of the i5 is superior.[/CENTER]
[LEFT]Taking also into account some results posted in this forum for a single worker window, (~45 to 50 ms/iter on the i5 compared to ~64ms on the AthlonII, both with 2560K FFTs and at stock speeds) I think that for GIMPS purposes the i5 is a better choice, as the performance gap already showing up in the one worker test, will certainly widen as the number of workers increase, due to the better mem bw of the i5. Consider also the better OCing capabilities of the i5: some tests have shown the X4 620 having difficulty to go above 3,2G whereas the i5 ramps up easily to 3,7-3,8.[/LEFT]

Thanks. It seems that at stock the 620 is about 25% slower. I would really like to see a 4 LL benchmark. If there is no slow down, I can probably live with it. But if not, I will go for the i5. Too bad my favourite online retailer here just jacked up their price for the i5.

[quote=garo;194914]Did you run four LLs at the same time? Was there a performance hit as opposed to running one LL/three TFs? Two of each? 3/1?
Thanks![/quote]
i havent done that yet
and as that pc has just blown another power supply i cant test

BTW that feature need adding to benchmarks

[QUOTE=lycorn;194863]As you are not running games, and Prime95 is surely high on your priorities :whistle:, I would recommend the Core i5 on a GA-P55M-UD2, and 4 or 8 Gb of DDR3-1600. Granted, the mobo doesn´t have integrated video, but it has PCI slots, and you´ll for sure find in your scrapbox an old video card that will suit your needs. The mobo is a great bang for the buck, excellent overclocker, very reasonable power consumption, overall good build quality. As for the i5, well, it´s currently the dream CPU for GIMPSters on a budget.[/QUOTE]

No games here either .... just primenet...
Would pretty much any cheap, old video card fit (and work)?
Or could I order a cheap one like:
[QUOTE] EVGA GeForce FX 5200 Video Card - 128MB DDR, PCI, DVI, TV Out, Video Card: $39.99 [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=petrw1;194960]No games here either .... just primenet...
Would pretty much any cheap, old video card fit (and work)?
Or could I order a cheap one like:

EVGA GeForce FX 5200 Video Card - 128MB DDR, PCI, DVI, TV Out, Video Card: $39.99
[/QUOTE]

That one should work. I think most motherboards still support PCI video but there is a definite trend toward PCI-express which would be a little safer choice. It might have noticably slow screen updates with the PCI card but it should not effect gimps unless you have verbose debugging output scrolling on the screen.

Last but not least, what I've some to recently to appreciate, L1 cache is twice larger on AMD chips (per core). This accelerates lattice sieving, and here's the extra bang for the buck. Is it beneficial for LL? - don't know.

But of course, forward looking, the i5 system is probably going to be more long playing, even if taken apart later.

[quote=lfm;194962]That one should work. I think most motherboards still support PCI video but there is a definite trend toward PCI-express which would be a little safer choice. [/quote]

Right. I suggested the [U]reuse[/U] of a PCI card, in case garo had a spare one, previously retired from service. For GIMPS and general purpose home/productivity work, most of the low level video cards are acceptable.
Now, if you´re going to buy a new one, you should go for PCI-e, to ensure long term usability. There are very cheap models available, as this one: ASUS GeForce EN8400GS - 512 MB GDDR2. I can get it from an online retailer by 29€ (~ 40 $).

[QUOTE=lycorn;195003]Right. I suggested the [U]reuse[/U] of a PCI card, in case garo had a spare one, previously retired from service. For GIMPS and general purpose home/productivity work, most of the low level video cards are acceptable.
Now, if you´re going to buy a new one, you should go for PCI-e, to ensure long term usability. There are very cheap models available, as this one: ASUS GeForce EN8400GS - 512 MB GDDR2. I can get it from an online retailer by 29€ (~ 40 $).[/QUOTE]
Be aware that you can't enable the Aero graphics interface of Vista with an old PCI card, although the basic and classic interfaces should work.
If you get a new PCI-e card, just get the cheapest one you can buy, it has sufficient power for the Aero interface and everything more powerful and more expensive is overkill if you don't play games and aren't interested in CUDA development. Make sure the PCI-e card has passive cooling, as fans (active cooling) on video cards are often very noisy.

I have a PCI-e GeForce 7600GS which is passively cooled that I plan to reuse. Also, I don't plan on using Vista (I have the XP upgrade :)) though I would like to keep the option of Windows 7 down the line.

[quote=garo;195009]I have a PCI-e GeForce 7600GS which is passively cooled that I plan to reuse. Also, I don't plan on using Vista (I have the XP upgrade :)) though I would like to keep the option of Windows 7 down the line.[/quote]
that should be fine for vista i think
it also should be fine for most things you will do
my old 7300 ran slow for most 3d games but it was very much the low end of the 7 series cards
yours should at least be good enough for occasional gaming on lowish settings

The last game I bought was in 2006 and that too was not the latest and greatest in terms of graphics requirements. Two small kids and work leave no time for gaming now.

BTW, I have decided to go for the i5-750 - mainly for the overclocking potential and the ability to run 4 LLs without a hit. I'm going with the Gigabyte P55-UD2 which is micro-ATX. I would have preferred the UD3 I like bigger boards for the extra space/slots but I noticed that the UD2 had firewire but the UD3 didn't. I'm also going with G.Skill DDR3 PC3-10666 CL9. DO you think the PC3-12800 ripjaw is worth the extra $13 bucks?

Absolutely.
[SIZE=1](obviously, mind the voltage, don't get the cheap high V ones, many people step into this)[/SIZE]

The ripjaw is 8-8-8-24 at 1.6V so it is compatible.

[QUOTE=Batalov;195095]Absolutely.
[SIZE=1](obviously, mind the voltage, don't get the cheap high V ones, many people step into this)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Who makes G-Skill?
What is an example of a "cheap high v one"? Do I want to stick with one at 1.65 V and NOT 1.9V??
Is OCZ RAM OK? i.e. OCZ Intel Extreme Edition Dual Channel 4096MB PC12800 DDR3 1600MHz Memory (2 x 2048MB) at $96 for 2X2Gb

Is dual channel a good thing? or unnecessary?

Thanks

Oh and is 7-7-7-24 going to be noticeably (28%) faster than 9-9-9-24?
If it says for Intel P55 series does that mean it is not best suited for i5/i7?

Waiting in my TigerDirect.ca shopping cart....any last words or warnings?

ULT-LSP550 :: Ultra LSP550 550-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, SLI-Ready, 135mm Fan, Lifetime Warranty $49.97

E145-7204 :: EVGA GeForce 7200 GS Video Card - 512MB GDDR2, PCI Express, DVI, VGA, HDTV, Video Card $43.99

O261-2026 :: OCZ PC12800 Obsidian 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit - 1600MHz, 4096MB (2x 2048MB) $135.99

G452-0103 :: Gigabyte P55M-UD2 Motherboard - Intel P55, Socket LGA1156, uATX, Dual-Channel DDR3, PCIe $119.97

I69-0750 :: Intel Core i5 750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail $219.97

What about a AMD Phenom X4 965/955 Black Edition?
It is cheaper as the i5-750 and in about the same speed.

in german language:
[URL]http://www.chip.de/news/AMD-oder-Intel-Welche-150-Euro-CPU-ist-besser_38786759.html[/URL]

[quote=petrw1;195221]Who makes G-Skill?
What is an example of a "cheap high v one"? Do I want to stick with one at 1.65 V and NOT 1.9V??
Is OCZ RAM OK? i.e. OCZ Intel Extreme Edition Dual Channel 4096MB PC12800 DDR3 1600MHz Memory (2 x 2048MB) at $96 for 2X2Gb

Is dual channel a good thing? or unnecessary?

Thanks

Oh and is 7-7-7-24 going to be noticeably (28%) faster than 9-9-9-24?
If it says for Intel P55 series does that mean it is not best suited for i5/i7?[/quote]
[URL]http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589[/URL]
(this was written before i5, but it looks generally applicable.)
Definitely not 28% faster; it's latency.

"Dual channel" (when they sell it to you) means only that you are getting two sticks, reasonably binned together, and should be just a bit cheaper than two separate ones. It's your m/b that will make it dual or not. Which still doesn't prevent from buying dual for not-dual use. If they are cheaper :-)

[U]Do not[/U] buy 1.9V. See anandtech article where they take apart this recomendation (1.65V max) ...and find it correct. :smile:

All of these companies are [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.Skill"]Taiwanese[/URL] or around. Don't be fooled by names. Some are better than others, but I don't know.
_________

P.S. The memory scaling article sort of contradicts the usefulness of [B][I]any[/I][/B] expensive memory (they even put it in the title), but I do believe that for Prime95 use, you should blend the expectations from the synthetic tests and the applications tests. (More leaning towards synthetic, maybe.)

When you get the system, would you be interested to run the tests with memory set in BIOS as 1600-C8, 1333-C7... etc? that would be really cool.

[QUOTE=moebius;195224]What about a AMD Phenom X4 965/955 Black Edition?
It is cheaper as the i5-750 and in about the same speed.

in german language:
[URL]http://www.chip.de/news/AMD-oder-Intel-Welche-150-Euro-CPU-ist-besser_38786759.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

Thanks but I want to keep all my hardware Intel ... no real good reason other than it has proven itself for me.

[QUOTE=Batalov;195225][URL]http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589[/URL]

P.S. The memory scaling article sort of contradicts the usefulness of [B][I]any[/I][/B] expensive memory (they even put it in the title), but I do believe that for Prime95 use, you should blend the expectations from the synthetic tests and the applications tests. (More leaning towards synthetic, maybe.)

When you get the system, would you be interested to run the tests with memory set in BIOS as 1600-C8, 1333-C7... etc? that would be really cool.[/QUOTE]

Thanks a lot for your comments.
In the synthetic tests faster RAM performs better but when comparing the 1600 C9, C8, C7, C6 there is very little difference so I guess latency is NOT a big factor.

Yes, I will tinker in the BIOS; I assume the MB I selected will allow this?

[quote=petrw1;195222]Waiting in my TigerDirect.ca shopping cart....any last words or warnings?

ULT-LSP550 :: Ultra LSP550 550-Watt Power Supply - ATX, SATA-Ready, SLI-Ready, 135mm Fan, Lifetime Warranty $49.97

E145-7204 :: EVGA GeForce 7200 GS Video Card - 512MB GDDR2, PCI Express, DVI, VGA, HDTV, Video Card $43.99

O261-2026 :: OCZ PC12800 Obsidian 4GB Dual Channel Memory Kit - 1600MHz, 4096MB (2x 2048MB) $135.99

G452-0103 :: Gigabyte P55M-UD2 Motherboard - Intel P55, Socket LGA1156, uATX, Dual-Channel DDR3, PCIe $119.97

I69-0750 :: Intel Core i5 750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail $219.97[/quote]
Newegg has some better prices adn even combos of what you want, e.g.
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.286295"]this[/URL].
UD2 is minimalistic, but BIOS is usually good. As far as i remember, when in BIOS hit Ctrl-F1 to see "expert" setings (it is not a secret, should be in the manual somewhere).

[QUOTE=Batalov;195241]Newegg has some better prices adn even combos of what you want, e.g.
[URL="http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.286295"]this[/URL].
UD2 is minimalistic, but BIOS is usually good. As far as i remember, when in BIOS hit Ctrl-F1 to see "expert" setings (it is not a secret, should be in the manual somewhere).[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree.

I priced out a "similar" system at New-Egg. I couldn't get an exact comparison since they don't have all the same manufacturers as TigerDirect but for what I believe is equivalent it was about $25 cheaper.

And I had noticed some packages too that peak my interest. The one you show here has a higher end Video Card and MB for a total price about $100 more than my package; however the CPU/RAM combo is cheaper.

Thanks

So I decided to go for the i5-750, UD2 and G.Skill Ripjaws 1600/CL8. Should arrive by Friday. Will update you all once I build it over the weekend.

Great. That´s about the same config I´ll be going to in a couple of weeks.
Benchmarks (OC included!) impatiently awaited... :wink:
BTW, don´t forget to grab a decent cooler.

Noctua NH-U12P-Rev2 cool enough? :smile:

Wow!
Now I know why you were willing to save a couple of bucks on the CPU and memories... :smile: its price around here is roughly 60% of the P55M-UD2 mobo.
It´s a very well reputed brand, you will surely be well served.

[QUOTE=lycorn;195273]Great. That´s about the same config I´ll be going to in a couple of weeks.
Benchmarks (OC included!) impatiently awaited... :wink:
BTW, don´t forget to grab a decent cooler.[/QUOTE]

Me three....similar config to be ordered this week.

Sorry for the noobie question but do I need:
- Memory Cooler?
- Heat Sink?
- Extra Fan(s)?
- All of the above?

These good quality memories normally come with their own integrated heat spreaders. It´s not supposed to use a special purpose cooler.
As for the heat sink, are you referring to the CPU cooler? If so, you may use the Intel stock cooler, but you´d be better off using a good quality cooler instead. Garo´s choice is great.
Extra (case) fans may or may not be needed. Get your system up and running and then put it to test for extended periods of time, at various clock frequencies (and obviously at 100% load). Take CPU temperature readings and if they remain within reasonable values (say up to 70º C) don´t worry about getting extra fans. You may wish to improve the ventilation in case the CPU is heating too much ; in that case install an extra case fan and see how it goes. But note, however, that, unless you are overclocking hard, an excessive CPU temperature is more likely to be caused by bad assemblage than by lack of an extra case fan . I´m not mentioning the very common cause of dust build-up on the coolers, as it will be a new setup.

Yes indeed lycorn. Feels a bit silly to spend 60% of the mobo price on the cooler. But my experience with the Intel push pins has been really bad and I've had one of those coolers break those plastic pins. I get quite a bit of dust in my HSFs so I need to clean them out regularly. the Noctua is expensive but keep in mind that it has two fans and each fan costs about 15-20 Euro to purchase stand alone. It is very highly rated by silentpcreview and I would gladly pay extra for the reduced noise. I have a Scythe S-Flex for my case fan as well.

I agree. I just mentioned the ratio cooler/mobo as a curiosity, it wasn´t by any means a hint that it was too expensive. Quality comes at a price, that´s for sure, and for heavy duty work it ´s a good idea to use a well proven HSF.

So the Cooler seems like a good idea but it says it comes with 2 fans.
I just looked at my case and the only current fan (and therefore the only hole in the case) is where the power supply is.

Does this make these extra fans unusable?

P.S. The front of the case is missing a CR/ROM cover so there is actually a space there ... albeit not for a fan but certainly for airflow.

The fans mentioned by garo are part of the cooler, they are not meant to be installed in the case. See the image attached.
If your case doesn´t allow for extra fans, and if you feel the need to improve cooling, even with a good HSF, you may run the computer with one or both side panels removed. It´s normally more efficient to have the case closed and some extra fan(s) installed, but if the case doesn´t allow that at all, try to open it.

I anticipate assembling two systems later this week; one is Athlon II X4 630 based, the other is an i5 750. I don't recall the motherboard models right now, but they were both Fry's combo specials ($130 and $245), so the motherboards will be one step above craptastic.

It will be interesting to compare with garo's build. I'll post benchmarks here (this weekend or before) when they are up and running.

If I remember I'll also post semi-accurate (Kill-a-watt meter) power consumption data.

Yaay! Everything has arrived and I will be setting it up tomorrow. I had a small heart attack for a second when I mistakenly thought that the Noctua is not compatible with the UD2.

Do people recommend overclocking with the BIOS (I've always done it that way) or using the Gigabyte EasyTune utility?

[quote=garo;195759]Do people recommend overclocking with the BIOS (I've always done it that way) or using the Gigabyte EasyTune utility?[/quote]

Personally, I have had better outcome doing the OC in the BIOS. EasyTune is darn easy, but it wouldn't give me consistently stable overclocks. I don't know if that was because of something I did, or if some of its "auto" features don't really adjust themselves automatically as they should. I have two different GB mobos, and have had bad luck with both using EasyTune. It wasn't like it did any damage or anything, it just didn't do as good of a job for OC.

I feel more confortable with the BIOS as well but was looking at an anandtech article and it seems easytune has matured as a product.

[QUOTE=garo;195759]Yaay! Everything has arrived and I will be setting it up tomorrow. I had a small heart attack for a second when I mistakenly thought that the Noctua is not compatible with the UD2.[/QUOTE]

Right behind you...order placed minutes ago.
Basically the same set up....that way if, as a rookie, I get stuck I have somewhere to whine for help :smile:

Athlon II 630 (2.8GHz) DDR2 800 vs. i5-750 (2.66GHz) DDR3 1333
Windows 7 x64, 4GB RAM
No overclocking; all timings are default value.

Quick benchmark comparison:
[code] [B]630[/B] [B]i5-750[/B]
1024K: 20.18 15.87
1280K: 25.16 20.04
1536K: 30.28 24.18
1792K: 36.76 29.31
2048K: 41.49 33.25
2560K: 55.64 44.26
3072K: 66.97 54.09
3584K: 80.70 65.56
4096K: 91.44 74.00
[/code]

As expected, the i5 is faster. The 630 is about as quick as my C2Q6600 at 2880MHz (960MHz DDR2) when running a single worker; the 630 scales better due to the C2Q's memory bottleneck.
The 630 performs a bit better than I expected. I thought the lack of L3 cache would have a more dramatic impact.

If anyone is interested, I'll post more details (MB, full bechmark results, etc.) tomorrow when I have time.

(The boxed HSF is used on both processors; they are both disappointingly noisy [buzzy].)

So everything is assembled and working. Getting all the power cables sorted was a bit harder partly because of the mATX motherboard and partly because I decided to move the HDD up to nearer the DVD drive.

The benchies are no great shakes at stock speed. About 20% slower than sdbardwick. I think that is because the memory is running 1333/CL9.

[QUOTE]Best time for 768K FFT length: 14.15 ms.
Best time for 896K FFT length: 17.28 ms.
Best time for 1024K FFT length: 19.61 ms.
Best time for 1280K FFT length: 24.53 ms.
Best time for 1536K FFT length: 29.38 ms.
Best time for 1792K FFT length: 35.82 ms.
Best time for 2048K FFT length: 40.49 ms.
Best time for 2560K FFT length: 53.61 ms.
Best time for 3072K FFT length: 64.92 ms.
Best time for 3584K FFT length: 79.34 ms.
Best time for 4096K FFT length: 89.47 ms.[/QUOTE]

But it scales like a beauty. 4 LLs running with no slowdown at all. Aso it is pretty quiet even with 3 120mm fans running and the core temps are in the 40-46C range. Plan to get overclocking in a day or two.

Some help getting a stable AND correct overclock
 

I built my i5-750 over the weekend. I went with the Gigabyte P55M-UD2, the Noctua U12P and G.Skill 1600/CL9 memory.

After running stable for a day at 3320MHz, I upped the clock yesterday to 3660MHz. The system is stable and no crashes or freezes. The memory is at 2:8 so running at 1464MHz and it chose an SPD setting of 10-10-10-27. Thanks to the terrific cooler the temps for the four cores at full load - 4 doublechecks - are 49-55C. However, I got six [B]sumout [/B]errors overnight on one of the four cores (the third). So I am thinking that there are four possible courses of action I can take depending on what is causing the errors.
[LIST=1][*]The CPU voltage is currently 1.28125 V from the standard of 1.25625V. Maybe I need to up it a bit more for correctness. I have plenty of room temp-wise.[*]The memory needs more voltage? Currently at stock 1.5V. Or any of the other components such as MCH, PCI-e etc.[*]Memory is too fast and I need to dial it back a bit - seems unlikely to me.[*]The CPU has reached its limit for correct operation and I need to dial it back. I will not get a stable and correct overclock at this speed.[*]While I am at it, what it the XMP mode for memory?[/LIST]So any ideas folks on what might be causing the problem and how I can push the chip further?

As you are not stressing the memory too much, I would recommend to start by upping the CPU VCore voltage: something like 1.30 - 1.35 V.
Check the LLC value (level). At 3.66 GHz, it could be necessary to set it to level 2 (I think UD2 supports it).
VTT voltage may also need to be set up to something around 1.3 - 1.35V.
Upping the memory voltage may also be worth a try, but I don´t think it is a real issue at 1464 MHz.
Your CPU, unless you´ve stumbled upon a really crappy sample, should be able to operate stable at 3,66 GHz.

I've read conflicting information about setting LLC. I have pulled back the overclock just a teeny bit to 3600 and it seems to be holding with voltage at 1.28. I'm going to try 3800 and 1.35 next. Thanks for your suggestions. You are right in that memory is likely not the problem here.

I think you should stick with the voltage specified by the packager(G.Skill) for your memory and that is 1,6 V.

Jacob

I have the memory at 1.5V and it should run at 1600 on that voltage. BTW, there are no errors at 3.6GHz so I'm guessing my CPU voltage was just a tad low.

Just thought I'd provide an update to those interested. I have the CPU stable at 3800MHz now with a couple of verified double-checks already turned in.

BCLK = 190, CPU = 3800MHz, Memory = 1520/9-9-9-24 1T

DRAM voltage = 1.56V, QPI = 1.25V CPU voltage = 1.3625V (I got one round off error at 1.35V so decided to up the voltage for safety. Full load effective voltage is 1.264V)

Core temperatures in the 54-64 range depending on ambient temperature and the core number - 1&3 are running hotter for some reason and 4 is running the coolest (it is running P-1).

Actual iteration time for 1280K FFT while running four tests: 17.8-18.2 msec.

[QUOTE=garo;195759]I had a small heart attack for a second when I mistakenly thought that the Noctua is not compatible with the UD2. [/QUOTE]

Ditto here....the Noctua manual says the MB must have a back plate (I assume it is so it doesn't break from the weight of the cooler). It appears this UD2 has a back place but NOT big enough that the cooler plates can bolt right into it. Rather the cooler plates are sized to bolt into the same holes that the Intel cooler does that are purely in the plastic with NO metal on either side. This concerns me again that the weight will break the plastic.

Am I misreading something?

Thanks

[QUOTE=petrw1;196939]Ditto here....the Noctua manual says the MB must have a back plate (I assume it is so it doesn't break from the weight of the cooler). It appears this UD2 has a back place but NOT big enough that the cooler plates can bolt right into it. Rather the cooler plates are sized to bolt into the same holes that the Intel cooler does that are purely in the plastic with NO metal on either side. This concerns me again that the weight will break the plastic.

Am I misreading something?

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Think I'm ok now....
thanks anyway

Stupid(?) question: Do I remove the black cover from the RipJaw RAM or is that there to protect/cool it?

thanks

It appears to be held on with some sticky tape which leads me to believe leave it on???

[QUOTE=petrw1;196944]Think I'm ok now....
thanks anyway[/QUOTE]

Except....airflow may not be an issue because I CANNOT fit the side cover with the Noctua cooler installed .. it's too high :confused:

Oops! yes the height of the Noctua is a concern. My Antec barely managed. There was about half an inch of clearance. Can't help you with the Ripjaws because I decided to go with the earlier G.Skill NQ series instead.

Thanks....not sure about the RipJaw. It looks like the cases are glued on and are meant to stay on; I am putting one in slot 1 and the other in slot 3 to allow Dual Channel. However if I ever wanted to add two more I don't think I could get one under the Cooler into slot 2 without removing the case.

I am a little confused. For your very first post (point 4) you talk about G-Skill RipJaw RAM that makes me think they are the same thing. When I click on the link you have, the picture looks exactly like what I have, with the black cases with the big black "teeth".

And two more rookie questions.

1. When I put in the CPU and pushed the locking bar back down I heard a bit of a crackling sound....I hope this is normal. I noticed the MB had hundreds of little pins sticking out and the CPU looked like it was covered in gold tin foil. I hope this sound was just the pins "connecting" with the CPU :confused: and not something breaking. :shock:

2. The MB has 1 IDE but the IDE cable supports 2 devices. I am okay with that as I have a HD and a CD-ROM. There is actually a second hard drive but I don't NEED it. Anyway, is there a strict way to connect this cable. Does one end need to go into the MB and then the devices connected to the middle and other end? Or can the devices connect at either end and the MB connect to the middle? I am asking because my devices are far apart and there are limited bays of the correct size so if I don't have to try to get them closer it will be a little easier.

Thanks again.

I was originally going to get the [URL="http://www.memoryc.com/products/description/4GB_G_Skill_DDR3_PC3_12800_1600MHz_Ripjaw_Series-8_8_8_24-Dual_Channel_kit_for_Intel_P55/index.html"]Ripjaw [/URL]but they were out of stock so I went with [URL="http://www.memoryc.com/products/description/4GB_G_Skill_DDR3_PC3_12800_1600MHz_NQ_Series-9_9_9_24-Dual_Channel_kit/index.html"]these [/URL]instead.

1. I have never heard a crackling sound but maybe my ears aren't sharp enough.

2. I believe you do need to attach one end to the motherboard. Also be sure to set the master/slave jumper pins on the devices themselves.

[QUOTE=garo;196980]I was originally going to get the [URL="http://www.memoryc.com/products/description/4GB_G_Skill_DDR3_PC3_12800_1600MHz_Ripjaw_Series-8_8_8_24-Dual_Channel_kit_for_Intel_P55/index.html"]Ripjaw [/URL]but they were out of stock so I went with [URL="http://www.memoryc.com/products/description/4GB_G_Skill_DDR3_PC3_12800_1600MHz_NQ_Series-9_9_9_24-Dual_Channel_kit/index.html"]these [/URL]instead.

1. I have never heard a crackling sound but maybe my ears aren't sharp enough.

2. I believe you do need to attach one end to the motherboard. Also be sure to set the master/slave jumper pins on the devices themselves.[/QUOTE]

Your RAM has a RED case. Did you remove it?

1. No Crackling....:down::down:
2. thanks

No I didn;t remove it. From my experience the case is typically made of metal and is useful for heat spreading and should not be removed.

[quote=petrw1;196978]1. When I put in the CPU and pushed the locking bar back down I heard a bit of a crackling sound....I hope this is normal. I noticed the MB had hundreds of little pins sticking out and the CPU looked like it was covered in gold tin foil. I hope this sound was just the pins "connecting" with the CPU :confused: and not something breaking. :shock:[/quote]
I believe that's normal. It may be different with the i7's and i5's (the latest I've dealt with in person is a C2Q Q6600), but as I recall some of a crackling noise is normal as the pins get seated into their very tiny counterpart holes on the CPU. The ZIF lever should take care of positioning; as long as you're using it according to instructions, then any noise produced is probably normal.

I wonder if maybe the i5's (and presumably i7's as well) use a gold tin foil on the bottom that covers the actual holes as a sort of protection, with the idea that the pins will poke through it upon insertion. If so, then that would explain the crackling noise perfectly.
[quote=garo;196980]2. I believe you do need to attach one end to the motherboard. Also be sure to set the master/slave jumper pins on the devices themselves.[/quote]
More specifically, you need to attach the end with only one connector to the motherboard. The end with two connectors is for devices; the one on the very end is the master and the one in the middle (but closer to the master end) is the slave. I don't believe it will work any other way.

Oh, and by the way, as for the metal cases on the RAM: those are heat spreaders and shouldn't be removed.

[QUOTE=mdettweiler;197002]
I wonder if maybe the i5's (and presumably i7's as well) use a gold tin foil on the bottom that covers the actual holes as a sort of protection, with the idea that the pins will poke through it upon insertion. If so, then that would explain the crackling noise perfectly.
[/QUOTE]

This seems unlikely to me since it would imply a single use CPU. You couldn't reliably upgrade your motherboard.

[quote=lfm;197007]This seems unlikely to me since it would imply a single use CPU. You couldn't reliably upgrade your motherboard.[/quote]
It wouldn't necessarily imply single use, just that the CPU would be slightly less well-protected after you take it out. I would imagine it would still work quite well if you then put it in another motherboard (or even back in the same one); the only difference is that the holes would be pre-punched.

[QUOTE=mdettweiler;197002]I wonder if maybe the i5's (and presumably i7's as well) use a gold tin foil on the bottom that covers the actual holes as a sort of protection, with the idea that the pins will poke through it upon insertion. If so, then that would explain the crackling noise perfectly.[/QUOTE]This is certainly not so. The CPU's do not have holes for the pins of the sockets to engage. What happens is that the pins of the socket mark the contact pads of the CPU. [url=http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3661]See for instance the pictures on AnandTech.[/url]

Jacob

[quote=S485122;197057]This is certainly not so. The CPU's do not have holes for the pins of the sockets to engage. What happens is that the pins of the socket mark the contact pads of the CPU. [URL="http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3661"]See for instance the pictures on AnandTech.[/URL]

Jacob[/quote]
Hmm, interesting. petrw1, is this what you meant by "covered in gold tin foil"? Because that doesn't look too different than what I'd seen on a Q6600 before, if memory serves.

Intel CPUs since Prescott have used the LGA attachment: the bottom of the processor package has a pattern of gold-plated contact spots, the socket contains hundreds of very small gold-plated springs which make contact with the contact spots. The AMD Socket F for Opteron CPUs is similar.

An advantage to Intel is that installation errors will damage the cheap motherboard which some third party would have to replace, rather than the expensive CPU which is under Intel's warranty; and it's no longer easy to bend pins, because nothing is going into holes: the springs squash flat to make a good contact.

The crackling noise is the sound of the springs squashing flat.

And take care: these 1156/1366 sockets are very fragile. I know of at least two people who had some broken pins; I'm one of them, though it was probably the board that was DoA (I can't be sure as I didn't inspect it close enough before inserting the CPU).

[QUOTE=S485122;197057]This is certainly not so. The CPU's do not have holes for the pins of the sockets to engage. What happens is that the pins of the socket mark the contact pads of the CPU. [url=http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3661]See for instance the pictures on AnandTech.[/url]

Jacob[/QUOTE]

Yes this would be what I saw ... not exactly "covered" but lots of gold foil none-the-less.

Thanks

My current issue is since the MB only has 1 IDE and I need to connect a CD and HD I am having trouble finding appropriate bays close enough together that the IDE cable reaches between them. I am hoping I can buy a longer one???

[quote=petrw1;197080]My current issue is since the MB only has 1 IDE and I need to connect a CD and HD I am having trouble finding appropriate bays close enough together that the IDE cable reaches between them. I am hoping I can buy a longer one???[/quote]
Yes, often the IDE cables that come with motherboards aren't quite big enough to span some of the larger cases popular today for homebuilt computers. I had a similar problem when I was building my computer, and was able to get a bigger one at a local computer store. (If that fails, I'm sure Newegg's got them in all shapes and sizes.)

HELP!!!
 

Just set up and powered on the new i750 system and after MB startup and when it tries to start the OS I get this error almost immediately. I had to video tape it to get the error because it flashed on and cleared almost immediately. On the video I noticed the XP logo screen flash for the slightest instant; not even long enough to be bright.

It's not a new hard drive and I obviously cannot scan for viruses for as far as it gets. Not sure if the error message will help.

Thanks

[quote=petrw1;197109]Just set up and powered on the new i750 system and after MB startup and when it tries to start the OS I get this error almost immediately. I had to video tape it to get the error because it flashed on and cleared almost immediately. On the video I noticed the XP logo screen flash for the slightest instant; not even long enough to be bright.

It's not a new hard drive and I obviously cannot scan for viruses for as far as it gets. Not sure if the error message will help.

Thanks[/quote]
Quick question: was this OS installation done on this motherboard, or is it left intact from another mobo? If the latter, then you'll need to do a clean install on the new one. Windows doesn't take too kindly to having its IDE controller change on it midstream, and there's no way to make it roll with it without starting over. (Linux, BTW, has no problem with this; I learned that the hard way when I upgraded my computer from a P4 to a C2D and had one half of my dual-boot setup suddenly not work.)

[QUOTE=mdettweiler;197121]Quick question: was this OS installation done on this motherboard, or is it left intact from another mobo? If the latter, then you'll need to do a clean install on the new one. Windows doesn't take too kindly to having its IDE controller change on it midstream, and there's no way to make it roll with it without starting over. (Linux, BTW, has no problem with this; I learned that the hard way when I upgraded my computer from a P4 to a C2D and had one half of my dual-boot setup suddenly not work.)[/QUOTE]

Thanks...I think that was it. I looked up the error message and among many other ideas was this IDE controller mismatch from nwe HW. So yes I installed a new OS and all looks good so far. Thanks.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
 

to everyone who offered me advice and help over the last few weeks for my daring adventure. IT WORKS!!!!

:party:

It's Alive!
 

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c&feature=related[/url]

First Benchmark...
 

First benchmark...Stock; Q9550 for comparison (i5 is about 5% faster)

[CODE]CPU Model Program Speed (1024K) (1280K) (1536K) (1792K) (2048K) (2560K) (3072K) (3584K) (4096K)
i5-750 Windows64,Prime95,v25.9,build 4 2664 15.98 20.18 24.28 29.39 33.45 44.55 54.51 66.16 74.58
Q9550 Windows64,Prime95,v25.9,build 4 2832 16.97 21.72 26.31 32.09 35.4 47.01 56.63 69.05 77.44[/CODE]

P.S. It shows 20.18 for 1280FFT. I am getting 24 ms running all 4 cores.

I was getting 24.53 with all four cores loaded at stock. Now I am getting 17.6 at 1280K with all cores loaded running at 3800 with memory at 1520/9-9-9. Enjoy the overclocking process.

[QUOTE=garo;197165]I was getting 24.53 with all four cores loaded at stock. Now I am getting 17.6 at 1280K with all cores loaded running at 3800 with memory at 1520/9-9-9. Enjoy the overclocking process.[/QUOTE]

Interesting that you didn't experience a slowdown as your benchmark (for 1 CPU) and loaded 4 CPUS are the same time.

I think the reason for that is that I have distributed.net running in the background at lower priority so the benchmark ran with no idle cores.

Another observation:

Prime95 client shows that my i5-750 is a 2 core multi-threaded processor.

What OS are you using? You probably have the wrong drivers.

[QUOTE=garo;197169]What OS are you using? You probably have the wrong drivers.[/QUOTE]

Vista 64 Bit Business.

Control Panel shows me as having 4 CPUs; it is just Prime95 that appears confused.

I'm not using the 64-bit version so that may have a problem. Are you using 25.11?

[QUOTE=garo;197171]I'm not using the 64-bit version so that may have a problem. Are you using 25.11?[/QUOTE]

Hmmm I should use 25.11 but I am using 25.9b4-64Bit.

It still lets me run 4 CPUs so I am not too worried as it is not performance affecting.

That has been [URL="http://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=11685"]noticed [/URL]by GW already. Easy enough to fix:

from undoc.txt:

[QUOTE]The program automatically computes the number of CPUs, hyperthreading, and speed.
This information is used to calculate how much work to get.
If the program did not correctly figure out your CPU information,
you can override the info in local.txt:
NumCPUs=n
CpuNumHyperthreads=1 or 2
CpuSpeed=s
Where n is the number of physical CPUs or cores, not logical CPUs created by
hyperthreading. Choose 1 for non-hyperthreaded and 2 for hyperthreaded. [/QUOTE]

[quote=sdbardwick;195921]

Quick benchmark comparison:
[code] [B]630[/B] [B]i5-750[/B]
1024K: 20.18 15.87
1280K: 25.16 20.04
1536K: 30.28 24.18
1792K: 36.76 29.31
2048K: 41.49 33.25
2560K: 55.64 44.26
3072K: 66.97 54.09
3584K: 80.70 65.56
4096K: 91.44 74.00
[/quote]

When I see these results I begin to question whether or not the 750 is worth the extra money over the 620/630. In Australia the 620 is about US$110 while the 750 is US$215, so it's comparable to American prices (Aussie dollar FTW).

Even after reading several similar threads I'm still unsure which path to go down. I would be overclocking, but of course it would need to be prime stable for dedicated LL crunching.

Arrrgghhh so confused :cry:

I am with you hj47.
Here in Portugal the Phenom II X4 965(3.4 GHz) and the Core i5 750 2.66 GHz cost the same. The AMD motherboards socket AM3 are cheaper than the socket 1156 ones.
Anyway, I am very inclined for the Core i5 due to its overclock capability.

Carlos

Two things that made me chose the i5.
1. Overclocking potential. I have it Prime95-stable at 3800MHz with a good cooler and 0.1V extra.
2. There is minimal slowdown when running 4 LL tests in parallel. I would really like to see iteration times for the 620/630 when running four LLs.

[QUOTE=garo;197365]Two things that made me chose the i5.
1. Overclocking potential.[B] I have it Prime95-stable at 3800MHz with a good cooler and 0.1V extra.[/B]
2. There is minimal slowdown when running 4 LL tests in parallel. I would really like to see iteration times for the 620/630 when running four LLs.[/QUOTE]

Wow :shock:

That definitely makes the i5 look like the better choice. What kind of % speed increase does this kind of GHz help for LL's?

I'm just concerned that at frequencies that high you may corrupt more LL tests than usual?

[quote=hj47;197452]Wow :shock:

That definitely makes the i5 look like the better choice. What kind of % speed increase does this kind of GHz help for LL's?

I'm just concerned that at frequencies that high you may corrupt more LL tests than usual?[/quote]

I am keeping a close eye on that. I've had 5 correct doublechecks and one unverified result so far. I might scale back to 3.6 if the unverified goes bad. I wouldn't tolerate more that 1-2% bad results.

The LL test speed scales almost linearly.

I just picked up an Athlon II x4 630 w/MB at Frys this last weekend for $99. Not bad for a $125 CPU and a $75 MB. I'll run some benchmarks when I get it configed. I'm using slow memory, so I'm sure it's not going to run as fast as those owned by others here.

In terms of memory speeds, is there much difference between 1600MHz & 2000MHz in terms of pure Prime95 performance?

I can get the 2GHz G.Skill Ripjaws for only $10 more than the 1.6GHz, but I'm not that certain in it will actually run at that speed.

Like when I overclock the i5, is it possible to keep the DDR3 running at the full 2GHz? Sort of like the 1:1 ratio used for DDR2 memory to keep it at full speed.

:help:

The maximum multiplier on P55 boards is 2:10. So you will need to run your BCLK at 200MHz if you want to run memory at 2000MHz. Look at the link to the anandtech article that was posted on this thread.

Here's my budget:

INTEL - Core I5 750 2.66GHZ SKT 1156 8MB cache
ASUS - P7P55D PRO SKT1156
2x KINGSTON - HyperX/DDR3 4GB 2000MHz CL9 Kit XMP
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 (i5 & i7 ready)
Price: € 745,95

What do you guys think?
[B] [/B]

[QUOTE=em99010pepe;197818]Here's my budget:

INTEL - Core I5 750 2.66GHZ SKT 1156 8MB cache
ASUS - P7P55D PRO SKT1156
2x KINGSTON - HyperX/DDR3 4GB 2000MHz CL9 Kit XMP
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 (i5 & i7 ready)
Price: € 745,95

What do you guys think?
[/QUOTE]

Go for it...

i5-750: Can't go wrong...seems to be a populare choice lately
MB: I have a slight preference to Gigabyte for the MB (it works for me) but as long as ASUS support the CPU and any overclocking you might try I'm sure it is fine. Does it have a video card?
RAM: As long as it is DDR3 and at least 1333; 4 GB is good
Cooler: Note: It's big. It was TOO high for my case; close for others. I cannot put the side back on.
Price: I can't spreak for that. I only know what the US and Canada prices are.

[quote=em99010pepe;197818]Here's my budget:

INTEL - Core I5 750 2.66GHZ SKT 1156 8MB cache
ASUS - P7P55D PRO SKT1156
2x KINGSTON - HyperX/DDR3 4GB 2000MHz CL9 Kit XMP
Noctua NH-U12P SE2 (i5 & i7 ready)
Price: € 745,95

What do you guys think?
[/quote]

Two points (assuming the main purpose of the machine will be prime hunting):

- Unless you really want to use 2 video cards in SLI config, there´s no actual reason to choose the P7P55D [B]Pro. [/B]You may get the P7P55D for approximately 30€ less, with the very same characteristics except SLI.
- I did some quick calculations, and came to the conclusion that you are spending an awful lot of money with the memory (~50%). Are you getting 2 4Gb sticks for a total of 8Gb? Also, getting 2000 MHz mem is probably overkill. DDR3-1600 is a good choice at a more reasonable price.

I need the two PCI-e slots for the future and lots of memory to use msieve, 8 GB is not enough, I pretend to go up to 16 GB.

What is the precise memory [URL="http://www.kingston.com/hyperx/products/khx_ddr3.asp"]part number[/URL] you are trying to get?
I don't think there is anything like 2x4Gb at 2000MHz.
Be careful with what resellers call their memory. A 4Gb [I]kit[/I] is 2x2Gb.
Some 8Gb kits are nothing but 4x2Gb.

Newegg has a very clear listings, but they are a pleasant outlier; all the others list the memory kits misleadingly (the capacity of the whole kit). The "comparison shopping sites" (which are indexing the real sellers, e.g. bizrate, pricegrabber, even cnet) become a total mess. One has to drill all the way down to particular items and their specs to get to the real picture. The real 4Gb modules are hideously expensive [B]and[/B] slow (1600MHz tops, and even then, I wouldn't risk buying these just yet - I foresee several RMAs, one after another, and idle computer during the RMAs; they never cross-post a replacement part).

If you are thinking of using more than 8Gb, you may want to consider the 1366 based system. For a system with 6x2Gb of memory you will pay less than an i5 with 2x4+2x2Gb and the 1366-based system will talk faster to the memory. A clear win, there.


EDIT: on a tight budget, I'd think about an AMD board with DDR2 (deliberately!) and filling it with 12Gb or 16Gb and a new 125W (not 140W) Phenom965. It can use both DDR3 or DDR2 (just not on the same board of course). It all depends on what one wants.