A nice distinction
 

May I suggest that contributors to this thread consider the different nuances that the words "offensive" and "undiplomatic" may have?

After such consideration, perhaps a more appropriate choice of adjective may be forthcoming in future discussions.

Paul

[quote=xilman;184367]May I suggest that contributors to this thread consider the different nuances that the words "offensive" and "undiplomatic" may have?

After such consideration, perhaps a more appropriate choice of adjective may be forthcoming in future discussions.[/quote]Hey! Maybe we can put together a list of such terms ("offensive") with suggested alternatives ("undiplomatic") that may be more accurate or polite.

Thesaurus.com (which redirects to [URL="http://thesaurus.reference.com/"]thesaurus.reference.com[/URL]) claims to be the "Largest free online thesaurus including antonyms." (However, a search there on neither "offensive" nor "undiplomatic" gives the other as a synonym.)

[QUOTE=cheesehead;184369]Hey! Maybe we can put together a list of such terms ("offensive") with suggested alternatives ("undiplomatic") that may be more accurate or polite.

Thesaurus.com (which redirects to [URL="http://thesaurus.reference.com/"]thesaurus.reference.com[/URL]) claims to be the "Largest free online thesaurus including antonyms." (However, a search there on neither "offensive" nor "undiplomatic" gives the other as a synonym.)[/QUOTE]For a very good reason: they are not synonyms.

Again, I invite consideration of the ways in which they are not synonyms .


Paul

People asking for information require help which is accurate and which meets their needs. I would call this style of helping "direct", in the sense of "to the point", containing sound advice, unambiguous, relevant.

Sometimes this directness can be construed as blunt and impolite even when it is purely intended to be helpful. This is partly culture dependent and is also not helped by the way that communication on the internet occurs without the very subtle non-verbal communication which we experience when we talk to someone face-to-face. In this case people with diplomatic skills can add to the expert's direct help by smoothing the message over.

Both those helping in the direct way and those who exercise diplomacy are adding to the teaching and learning process. Each group should acknowledge the value of the other group's contribution and should try to work together. That is one good reason why it is right to encourage a variety of responses from different people when someone asks for help.

Offensiveness is - by definition, I think - always inappropriate. But offensiveness can be hard to distinguish from directness, especially between two people from different cultures and backgrounds. People who give help in the direct manner should be aware of this potential and - if in doubt - try to make it clear that they do not wish to be offensive at the same time as giving their help.

Here is what I think. Bob is either:

1) Direct, as [URL="http://mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=184438&postcount=26"]Brian-E's previous post[/URL] explains

2) Has Asperger's Syndrome

3) Is actually a totally different person when he is not dealing with math-related problems

4) All of the above (or some combination of the latter)

5) None of the above

[QUOTE=flouran;186882]Here is what I think. Bob is either:

1) Direct, as [URL="http://mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=184438&postcount=26"]Brian-E's previous post[/URL] explains

2) Has Asperger's Syndrome

3) Is actually a totally different person when he is not dealing with math-related problems

4) All of the above (or some combination of the latter)

5) None of the above[/QUOTE]

I think that you're correct, since those five cases cover all eight possibilities (with Hamming weight 1/1/1/2–3/0, respectively).

[quote]
Bob, at this point, I have to assume that either you enjoy punishing yourself with poorly phrased mathematical sploogings from people you consider beneath you, or you simply do not understand the way people different than you operate.

Unless I am mistaken, no one is asking you to be here, no one is forcing you to read the homework help forum, and you continue to do this of your own volition. You are brusque, impatient, and frankly, not a good teacher. I have never seen you take any joy in another's acquisition of knowledge, yet you seem to revel in berating anyone who wastes your time. I am sure you are a fine collaborator, and a font of knowledge, but part of being a teacher is understanding your student.

You are easily irritated, you veer off into tirades about the way people should learn (which invariably is go read a book and figure out why an algorithm works before you try to code anything*) and you refuse to listen to anything that doesn't come packed in mathematical precision.

If this were grad school, I would have no qualms with your behavior, but it is a public forum. So what if people come on here and try to prove something without basic high school knowledge? You like to compare mathematics to brain surgery, but your analogy is useless and self-important because no one is going to die at the hands of an amateur mathematician. The worst impact they have on the world is annoyance. There will ALWAYS be someone on here who annoys you with the same kind of behavior, and you berating them WILL. NOT. CHANGE. IT. Just because your teachers doing this worked for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone, especially amateurs/cranks who aren't harming anyone.



*which, by the way, annoys me to no end that you believe there is no value in running someone else's code. Yes, one should have an understanding of that algorithm, but if someone is just beginning, running through examples helps TREMENDOUSLY.[/quote]Agreed. Looks like a similar case is happening, this time on a subject that's not really math-related:

[URL]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=209963#post209963[/URL]

Whether my views are right or wrong is your opinion, but Silverman's attitude has been acting up again. As the saying goes, you can't teach old dog Silverman new tricks...

[quote=Historian;209964]Agreed. Looks like a similar case is happening, this time on a subject that's not really math-related:

[URL]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?p=209963#post209963[/URL]

Whether my views are right or wrong is your opinion, but Silverman's attitude has been acting up again. As the saying goes, you can't teach old dog Silverman new tricks...[/quote](* sigh *)

I have a request for you and anyone else who's been in this forum less than a year. This request is based on my experience here, plus some background:

Please temporarily refrain from commenting on the non-mathematical content of Silverman's posts until after you've gone back to read a hundred or so of his past postings from years ago, to get a better feel for where he's coming from.

He's not going to be impressed by your emotional blastings. Neither will the rest of us.

When you do comment on the non-mathematical content of Silverman's posts, please try doing so from an analytical, nonsatirical perspective, so that you avoid perpetuating a useless angry emotional tone. This may be difficult for you, and emotionally unsatisfying at first. Please just try it a few times, and try analyzing the results. You may find this approach more satisfying in the long run.

[quote=Historian;209964]
Whether my views are right or wrong is your opinion, but Silverman's attitude has been acting up again. As the saying goes, you can't teach old dog Silverman new tricks...[/quote]That saying emphatically does not apply. Through these forums I have been privileged to have access thoughts and opinions of some well-published mathematicians. Dr. Silverman stands near the top of those I value most. He and others can be a bit irascibly pointed in remarks at times; this I value too. I like that mathematics is breathed alive by people by with feelings and dimensions that give this field a vibrancy and meaning beyond what I could reach by scraping over dry esoteric formulations.

Most assuredly, when a new mathematical result is popularized, one of the first things I check on these forums is what Dr. Silverman and a few others here say about it. [I]They learn new tricks all the time[/I]. Of course most of what is new is really old or merely a new perspective but occasionally is surprisingly unexpected. Or so I think -- in my opinion... because it is easy to have an opinion. Much too easy sometimes. Easy to chime in and feel what one is saying is new or precious; and in the give and take of opinions sometimes something stings. I had a chile verde omelet for breakfast today. The first bite was a bit too spicy but it gradually became more palatable... and then delicious. Yum!