Feindlich, Widerlich, Abstoßend, Undiplomatisch?
 

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman
WHAT conduct? My discussion has been entirely about the mathematics
and meaning of the original question.

Well to someone who is not accustomed to who you are and has not been on the forums for too long (such as the OP), he would be offended (probably). [/QUOTE]

Would anyone like to weigh in here? Exactly what might I have said that could even
be remotely construed as offensive?

The only thing I can see is that some people might take offense simply at being
[b]corrected[/b].

The "discussion" Robert is referring to is from here: [url]http://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=12241[/url]

The above thread is temporarily closed for today.

I personally think that throughout the course of the thread you kept talking about the OP's wording, over and over and over again. To someone who is new to these forums (like the unregistered OP), being corrected about the same thing repeatedly (and over-embellishing this flaw) after only one post may be taken as offensive.

Instead, if you said that the OP's wording was inaccurate (which it was) only once, would have sufficed.
Also, you seemed a bit impatient because you kept waiting for the OP to respond....that's also partly offensive.

Either way, since I am on your ignore list, you probably won't read this post anyways.

By the way, why the heck is this thread in the Homework Help forum? It should be in the Soap Box (or Lounge); it just shouldn't be here.

Bob, at this point, I have to assume that either you enjoy punishing yourself with poorly phrased mathematical sploogings from people you consider beneath you, or you simply do not understand the way people different than you operate.

Unless I am mistaken, no one is asking you to be here, no one is forcing you to read the homework help forum, and you continue to do this of your own volition. You are brusque, impatient, and frankly, not a good teacher. I have never seen you take any joy in another's acquisition of knowledge, yet you seem to revel in berating anyone who wastes your time. I am sure you are a fine collaborator, and a font of knowledge, but part of being a teacher is understanding your student.

You are easily irritated, you veer off into tirades about the way people should learn (which invariably is go read a book and figure out why an algorithm works before you try to code anything*) and you refuse to listen to anything that doesn't come packed in mathematical precision.

If this were grad school, I would have no qualms with your behavior, but it is a public forum. So what if people come on here and try to prove something without basic high school knowledge? You like to compare mathematics to brain surgery, but your analogy is useless and self-important because no one is going to die at the hands of an amateur mathematician. The worst impact they have on the world is annoyance. There will ALWAYS be someone on here who annoys you with the same kind of behavior, and you berating them WILL. NOT. CHANGE. IT. Just because your teachers doing this worked for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone, especially amateurs/cranks who aren't harming anyone.



*which, by the way, annoys me to no end that you believe there is no value in running someone else's code. Yes, one should have an understanding of that algorithm, but if someone is just beginning, running through examples helps TREMENDOUSLY.

[QUOTE=Orgasmic Troll;184072]Bob, at this point, I have to assume that either you enjoy punishing yourself with poorly phrased mathematical sploogings from people you consider beneath you, or you simply do not understand the way people different than you operate.

[/QUOTE]

At this point, I have to assume that you can't read. I asked how
anything I wrote in the prior thread might be offensive. Instead of
answering, you went off on a rant. (deleted below).

[QUOTE]
but part of being a teacher is understanding your student.
[/QUOTE]

There is no way of "knowing your student' when an anonymous
person poses a question.




[QUOTE]

and you refuse to listen to anything that doesn't come packed in mathematical precision.
[/QUOTE]

Since the subject is mathematics, to do ANYTHING LESS leads to what
Andrei Toom (in a very famous essay) referred to as "pseudo-education".

See

[url]http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Colleges/ARHU/Depts/CompLit/cmltgrad[/url]

A Russian Teacher In America
by Andrei Toom


I refuse to participate in 'pseudo education', nor is there any reason why I
should so participate. Look at the disaster it leads to, as discussed in
Toom's paper.

[QUOTE]
If this were grad school, I would have no qualms with your behavior, but it is a public forum. So what if people come on here and try to prove something without basic high school knowledge? You like to compare mathematics to brain surgery, but your analogy is useless and self-important because no one is going to die at the hands of an amateur mathematician.
[/QUOTE]

Irrelevant. You miss the analogy. It isn't brain surgery per se, but rather to show the futility and pointlessness of trying to accomplish anything in any
technical subject without a basic background in the fundamentals.

With regard to your public forum reference: Are you also saying that public
forums should not impose any academic discipline? I disagree. To do
otherwise leads to pseudo-education.


[QUOTE]

The worst impact they have on the world is annoyance. There will ALWAYS be someone on here who annoys you with the same kind of behavior, and you berating them WILL. NOT. CHANGE. IT.
[/QUOTE]

Once again... Who did I berate? Fouran said people could be offended
by my remarks. These remarks only addressed the mathematics and
meaning of the original question.


[QUOTE]
Just because your teachers doing this worked for you doesn't mean that it works for everyone, especially amateurs/cranks who aren't harming anyone.
[/QUOTE]

But they DO harm people. Look at the harm caused by some of the cranks
in sci.math. Cranks have tried to get professors FIRED, because the
professors told them they were wrong. And I have had to deal with the
aftermath of misinformation that someone picked up (and believes) that originally came from a crank.

The time to stamp out crankish behavior is at the very beginning.


[QUOTE]
*which, by the way, annoys me to no end that you believe there is no value in running someone else's code. Yes, one should have an understanding of that algorithm, but if someone is just beginning, running through examples helps TREMENDOUSLY.[/QUOTE]

Explain what understanding comes from blindly running black box
code written by others. It might be fun, but it conveys no
understanding. You say it helps tremendously. Helps [b]what[/b]???

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;184076]At this point, I have to assume that you can't read. [/QUOTE]
See, it's these kinds of things that are [B]offensive[/B]. You asked in the thread I linked in post #2 why people may call you an asshole, and your uncalled-for response to Orgasmic Troll is a reason for that.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;184076]And I have had to deal with the
aftermath of misinformation that someone picked up (and believes) that originally came from a crank.
[/QUOTE]
No one asks you to. Most mathematicians (non-amateurs) just ignore cranks altogether. Instead, they concentrate on their work. Why don't you do the same?
[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;184076]
The time to stamp out crankish behavior is at the very beginning.
[/QUOTE]
In other words, you are trying to [B]change[/B] people. Good luck with that futile, useless task.

[QUOTE=flouran;184077]See, it's these kinds of things that are [B]offensive[/B]. You asked in the thread I linked in post #2 why people may call you an asshole, and your uncalled-for response to Orgasmic Troll is a reason for that.[/QUOTE]

This time it was *intended* to be offensive, in response to something
Orgasmic Troll said that I found offensive.

You still haven't shown what, in the original thread, was offensive.

[QUOTE=flouran;184078]

In other words, you are trying to [B]change[/B] people. Good luck with that futile, useless task.[/QUOTE]


I have zero expectation of changing them. Neverthless, some good still
comes from what I write. Sometimes the cranks go away and don't come
back. And sometimes, unfortunately, they don't. :smile: And sometimes,
in very rare instances, they do change their behavior. Raman is one
such.

[quote=flouran;184078]Most mathematicians (non-amateurs) just ignore cranks altogether. Instead, they concentrate on their work. Why don't you do the same?[/quote]
As a crank myself I have personally benefited from Dr Silverman's help here on this forum. I felt slightly silly afterwards because he roundly corrected me, but I was delighted to have my questions (they were about factorising methods) directly answered for free by a noted expert. Please don't ask him to stop helping others.

To answer Dr. Silverman's question from my own reading: I saw nothing offensive posted by him in the thread referred to.

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;184083]
Sometimes the cranks go away and don't come
back. And sometimes, unfortunately, they don't. :smile:
[/QUOTE]
On a forum like mersenneforum, I don't think that a crank is harmful. But on eprint sites and places which are intended [B]only for professional mathematicians to collaborate their results[/B], then cranks should be banned. Which is why there is an endorsement system on the arXiv...(though some cranks still get through unfortunately)

[QUOTE=R.D. Silverman;184076]Explain what understanding comes from blindly running black box
code written by others. It might be fun, but it conveys no
understanding. You say it helps tremendously. Helps [b]what[/b]???[/QUOTE]

Then why do you use the CWI postprocessing code for your NFS jobs????????????