[quote=T.Rex;182432]You cannot suppress religions without proposing something else... People needs helps for driving their lifes, how to raise children, how to prepare to death, help when ill, ...
T.[/quote]

And the first prize in the category "moron" goes to T. Rex, for replacing the outdated concept of religion with the novel concept of religion.

[QUOTE=__HRB__;182435]And the first prize in the category "moron" goes to T. Rex, for replacing the outdated concept of religion with the novel concept of religion.[/QUOTE]

How can you call it an outdated concept when even the atheists are participating?

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm?csp=34"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm?csp=34[/URL]

[QUOTE=ewmayer;182412]Nah ... those all require some actual *effort*, and some degree of individual accomplishment is generally needed to gain acceptance. Religion gives folks a way to feel superior to other folks based on nothing more more than Reciting the Pledge and learning the Holy Handshake. Thanks to the correct-by-fiat aspect of religion, folks who may not have accomplished a single thing of note nor shown any kind of superior judgment in their entire lives, suddenly become emboldened to say stuff like "I KNOW that I am on the righteous path and that GOD mypersonallordandsavior wants ME to praise him unto the heavens and that this is my purpose in life, praise be unto Him and pass the ammo, brother." What a great excuse to not get off your ass and try to actually do anything constructive, eh? Oh, and you get to look down on the billions of "benighted" other folks on the planet who don't believe as you do, call them ignorant heathen (or unwashed savages, or godless infidels ... take your pick), take their property and land, even kill them. It's like a giant personal get-out-of-loserhood-jail-free card.

Note that I'm not saying that all believers are losers - far from it - but there certainly appears to be a strong tendency among the losers of the world to embrace religion (with zeal correlating strongly with degree of loserhood) and use it both as a crutch and an excuse to aggressively "share" their loserhood with the rest of the world - and those folks are the most dangerous ones. There was a similar dynamic among people who eagerly joined e.g. the Nazi party.[/QUOTE]
And any scientific community is a church for any bunch of nerds who want to fully worship their God of Rationality :lol:

[quote=AES;182474]How can you call it an outdated concept when even the atheists are participating?

[URL]http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm?csp=34[/URL][/quote]

Is eating a lot of fiber and pooping into the river upstream shortly before the baptism takes place an outdated concept, too?

[QUOTE=flouran;182530]And any scientific community is a church for any bunch of nerds who want to fully worship their God of Rationality :lol:[/QUOTE]Every morning, I pray my God of Rationality, with Einstein as first Holly Man.
T.

[QUOTE=__HRB__;182543]Is eating a lot of fiber and pooping into the river upstream shortly before the baptism takes place an outdated concept, too?[/QUOTE]

I recommend prune juice. Fiber does not do shit (both literally and figuratively :razz:) compared to prune juice.

[quote=flouran;182582]I recommend prune juice. Fiber does not do shit (both literally and figuratively :razz:) compared to prune juice.[/quote]

Dunno...prune juice is supposedly good for volume, but I'd be concerned that the results would contain too much liquid and disperse too quickly. For maximum psychological impact, nothing beats seeing a decent size floater where your face was a few seconds ago.

Of course we could cheat and soak cardboard packing peanuts in prune-juice induced diarrhea.

More research is needed.

[QUOTE=T.Rex;182271]It is unpleasant to be defined as being againt some other idea... atheit, anti-theist, apatheist : always "theist" is there... Awful.
I'm free of any foolish idea related to something who created me and related to the dream of a life after death.
"Free and Sound in Mind" ? "There by Chance" ? "Born to Die" ? "Wise" ?
We need another way for naming us...
T.[/QUOTE]

It all depends on what your personal connotations are for the word "against." What other world are you going to use? It is just semantics...what is in a name? I would describe myself (just a couple things) anti-Nazism, against bigotry, against racism, against blatant ignorance.

[QUOTE=flouran;182355]You make a good point.
But, what about think tanks, scientific communities, and research colleagues?[/QUOTE]

These groups are more exclusive.

[QUOTE=__HRB__;182364]Not true. Rationality does provide the same feeling, but of course [I]you[/I] cannot understand this.

The only difference is that the dumb people require explicit physical symbols (or absence of explicit physical symbols such as tattoos) to demonstrate their association to a group, because they're too stupid to realize what is essential and what is not. Which is why they go fucking apeshit about irrelevant details.

You can prove my point by censoring the expression [I]fucking apeshit[/I].[/QUOTE]

You are biased to an extent that it weakens your argument, which is otherwise a good point you made that others might dismiss as "ranting." You are demonstrating the destroyer of rationality- stereotyping, or ignorance... I cannot tell for sure. I am a member of Phi Theta Kappa, yet I require no "symbol" to feel a sense of belonging...I feel this anyway. I do not "need" to fill my home or car, etc, with the mascot of my college. I do not have to display my country's flag to be a citizen, yet that does not mean I cannot feel a sense of pride when I look at a flag. Further, who are you to say what details are essential or irrelevant if you do not belong to a specific group? What you view as senseless jumble could very well be the thesis of some group's "creed."

[quote=T.Rex;182271]It is unpleasant to be defined as being againt some other idea... atheit, anti-theist, apatheist : always "theist" is there... Awful.
I'm free of any foolish idea related to something who created me and related to the dream of a life after death.
"Free and Sound in Mind" ? "There by Chance" ? "Born to Die" ? "Wise" ?
We need another way for naming us...
T.[/quote]Yes, religion has been influential for so long that it has starved languages of positive words for alternatives.

The positive name for a worldview that is free of supernatural elements would seem to be "naturalism", and an adherent, a "naturalist" -- but those already has so many other connotations that they're no good for this purpose. (Yes, "naturalism" is indeed sometimes used for exactly that purpose -- [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_%28philosophy"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy[/URL]) -- but it's not an exclusive-enough meaning IMO.) They make it easy for religious opponents to mis-portray adherents as "acting like animals".

There is a group trying to popularize another term, though it's not ideal either -- see [URL]http://www.the-brights.net/[/URL]

What we need, I've concluded, is an entirely new word, but that's not easy. I haven't come up with one. Maybe someone with extensive Greek and Latin knowledge could find some novel derivative not already in use.

(I presume there's no obvious French candidate. Can you invent one that L'Académie française might approve?)

Wizzerdom, Perspiration and Putridity
 

[quote=Primeinator;182636]You are biased to an extent that it weakens your argument, which is otherwise a good point you made that others might dismiss as "ranting." You are demonstrating the destroyer of rationality- stereotyping, or ignorance... I cannot tell for sure. I am a member of Phi Theta Kappa, yet I require no "symbol" to feel a sense of belonging...I feel this anyway. I do not "need" to fill my home or car, etc, with the mascot of my college. I do not have to display my country's flag to be a citizen, yet that does not mean I cannot feel a sense of pride when I look at a flag. Further, who are you to say what details are essential or irrelevant if you do not belong to a specific group? What you view as senseless jumble could very well be the thesis of some group's "creed."[/quote]

Symbols are not essential precisely because they are 'symbolic' and therefore serve no further purpose. Getting a GPA of 3.5 and paying for a gold pin obviously isn't a substitute for a functioning brain.

[QUOTE=__HRB__;182656]Symbols are not essential precisely because they are 'symbolic' and therefore serve no further purpose. Getting a GPA of 3.5 and paying for a gold pin obviously isn't a substitute for a functioning brain.[/QUOTE]

Symbols may not serve a huge practical purpose, but calling people who use them "dumb" seems rather "dumb" to me. As for the golden key...I could care less about it. I do not wear trinkets. As you put it- it is just a symbol and a physical symbol does not mean much. It what is occurring at the mental and/or emotional level that are important, the thought or reason for that symbol's existence. A flag is just a symbol, but what does that symbol mean to YOU (caps for emphasis on the collective person). However, the use of the flag in military ceremonies to honor the fallen is symbolic, yet holds much meaning for those that partake. Does this mean they are stupid? I cannot profess to read minds, but I would warrant that although the flag is a nice "symbol" to have, they do not need to have the flag present to realize the significance of what they have lost (a loved one).

And as you so aptly put, a GPA is not a substitute for a functioning brain. However, I was referring to the collective sense of belonging to a group which you negated in an earlier post. Phi Theta Kappa to me is not a group of students who got a halfway decent 3.5 GPA. It is a group of individuals who do a lot of good in the community and abroad- whether focusing on events like Relay for Life or a petitioning for the rights of so-called nuclear veterans or cleaning up a park. Not a substitute for a family, but it functions and feels similar.

I was NOT trying to launch a personal attack on you, I was merely pointing out that individuals may feel a sense of belonging- whether it be a religious group or otherwise. I would agree with you in saying that rationality can provide the same experience- engagement in structured discussions where there are a variety of ideas floating around is something that I thoroughly enjoy. However, automatically claiming that someone lacks the ability to rationalize (the person you were negating), seems a little uncouth without ample and "unbiased" evidence.