Is there a God?
 

I only read the first half of this page, but I am still of the same opinion,

If Darwin was right, then our values, our deeds, our opinions about morality is equally as important as a rock or a piece of feces. I am a Christian because the alternative is unbearable. If Darwin is correct, kill me now, for my reason for existence is crap.

Some say all we need is God plus nothing. By the same token, without God, there is nothing. Not the nothing before creation, but nothing of value. God is my rock, He either exists or my life is meaningless. Therefore let cling to the idea that God exists, even if we are ever given overwhelmingly convincing evidence.

Since this is a Forum of intellectuals, I will express it thus. Let's take two basic questions: Is there a God? and Do I believe in God? and look at their ramifications. Because I'm a Christian, we're going to assume that if there is a God in this scenario that he loves us and wants us to be happy. So there are 4 possibilities.

There ISN'T a God and I DON'T believe in him.

In this case the person is simply correct, they live their life in a better way than people who do believe in God, but in the end they die, with the only absolute truth being physics.

There ISN'T a God and I DO believe in him.

This state is actually covered in the Bible, Christians are beings to be pitied, since they hope and strive for something that they'll never receive. In the end, everyone dies, but Christians have it worse because they believed something that was totally untrue and therefore behaved in unnecessary ways. Not good.

There IS a God and I DON'T believe in Him.

Ouch, the penalties for this are horrendous, you assume there isn't a God and suffer in the worst possible way.

There IS a God and I DO believe in Him

Choirs of Angels, huge mansions and limitless food, as well as a job that you enjoy and look forward to.(no lie, I just forget where it's written.)

Of course there are trillions of variations on this theme, but this is how I approach it. My value system teaches me that Godless evolutionary theory(a God-based evolutionary theory would suggest an evil God that likes to cause pain and death) doesn't have anything to offer me, and I'd rather entertain the idea that Islam and Christianity simply diverged a long time ago then consider the idea that I'm related to pond scum.

It's not logical, it's not rational, but it keeps me on track in a world that's hard enough as it is. Ray Kurzweil is a nutjob for simultaneously believing in evolution and actually wanting to live long enough to see humans get made obsolete.

Just so I don't knock the thread off track, and after reading the very first post of the thread, I'd like to propose my own theory. I have no way of proving it or disproving it, but hopefully people will at least consider it.

God knew we would be a sinful race(human race) and also knew what it would do to his ecosystem, so he created DNA and RNA to self-heal the worldwide eco-system. So, by that notion, global warming(as an example) wouldn't be a global catastrophe if it were allowed to run it's course, the organisms would simply adapt over the course of a decade to a century, tremendously faster than Darwin's idea. New ideas in DNA aren't created or destroyed, but re-packaged in different forms. This would also explain the huge redundancy in DNA that exists, it's like source code for the world.

Bullshit
 

[QUOTE=jasong;181499]God knew ...[/QUOTE]Logic says: with a false property, one cannot build some true property.
There is no proof that there is a God (moreover, everything shows that the idea of a God is stupid), so "God knew" is a false statement, and everything you say then has no meaning: bullshit. Full stop.
Tony

I do not know why the human tendency is to view issues as just black and white- many issues have a gray area (or whatever color you want to call it).
Evolution vs Creationism happens to be a great example. For instance, evolution is a proven scientific fact. BUT, when people use this word, they often forget that there are two types of evolution- macro and micro. Macro evolution indicates that people came from single-celled organisms billions of years ago. Microevolution concerns itself more with natural selection (the giraffe with the taller neck lives because it can reach more food- thus giraffes have tall necks). I am a firm believer of microevolution, but not so much for macroevolution, though there is evidence for this, I believe that if humans did originate from primitive life, it was by God's design. So although I am Christian, I do believe in evolution to a degree. Creation and Evolution do not have to be oppositional. Further, I would like to address your comment, Tony. Not everything suggests the idea of God is stupid. Science and religion have long been opposing forces, but leading research in areas like String Theory suggest a divine power of some nature. Even the laws of physics (matter cannot be created nor destroyed) suggests this. Where did all the "stuff" for the big bang originate? As energy? Well, energy is just another form of matter- they are exchangeable currencies.

[quote=jasong;181497]If Darwin was right, then our values, our deeds, our opinions about morality is equally as important as a rock or a piece of feces.[/quote]Care to explain that logic?

It looks a lot more like an attempt to smear Darwin than a logical conclusion from true statements.

[QUOTE=Primeinator;181585]Evolution vs Creationism happens to be a great example. For instance, evolution is a proven scientific fact. BUT, when people use this word, they often forget that there are two types of evolution- macro and micro. Macro evolution indicates that people came from single-celled organisms billions of years ago. Microevolution concerns itself more with natural selection (the giraffe with the taller neck lives because it can reach more food- thus giraffes have tall necks). I am a firm believer of microevolution, but not so much for macroevolution, though there is evidence for this, I believe that if humans did originate from primitive life, it was by God's design.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/[/url]

I am sure this will continue forever and ever. Someone will claim micro- macro- distinction. And someone will post this link. Sigh!

[QUOTE=cheesehead;181595]Care to explain that logic?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=jasong;181497]It's not logical, it's not rational, but it keeps me on track in a world that's hard enough as it is.[/QUOTE]

Like the man said...

No hope.
 

[QUOTE=Primeinator;181585]Not everything suggests the idea of God is stupid.[/QUOTE]The problem is that it is quite impossible for you to change your mind because that would mean to disagree with all that you thought true since ages.
That would be terrible for you: accept to say that everything you were thinking about was wrong.
Your first ennemy is yourself.
But it is not really your fault: you are a victim.

First try with a psychotherapy.

You only have to accept one thing: [B]you'll die one day and your spirit, your mind, whatever you call it, will totally, definitely disappear, vanish, with no hope.[/B]
When this is clear for you, everything will be clear for you. Just try.

Tony

[quote=T.Rex;181605] You only have to accept one thing: [B]you'll die one day and your spirit, your mind, whatever you call it, will totally, definitely disappear, vanish, with no hope.[/B]
When this is clear for you, everything will be clear for you. Just try.[/quote]
How can you assume this without qualification? You obviously refuse to accept a statement beginning with "God knew" without some sort of qualification.
Either statement makes some big assumptions without qualification. To accept one and dismiss the other without any thought because one fits your views is wrong and illogical.

[QUOTE=Mini-Geek;181607]How can you...[/QUOTE]There is no way to discuss with people believing in God: you are not logical, you are crazy. It is a complete loss of time.

You, Christians from the USA are the same than the muslim guys who did the "September, 11". You could kill because you think there is a God. In fact, you killed: about 19 millions of Indians of North America were killed because you thought that an Indian is not a man.

My wife died of a cancer. I was with her, during 5 months, till the end. I know what death means. Now, she's gone. No hope for after-life. I will not meet her in any place again because she is no more: she's completely gone, disappeared, vanished. But life must continue, because there are still beauty and happiness around me.

You hate Evolution because you cannot accept the fact that we are there by chance. You are like a baby asking for your mother.
Read about Darwin: why he stopped believing in God, why he didn't publish his book because he was so deeply inloved with his wife, which was afraid that they could not be inloved for ever if God did not exist. He published his book.

Tony

can a mod please move out the philosophical musings to somewhere else? (Once you're done, please feel free to delete this post)