iPhone App
 

I was planning on writing an iPhone app this summer, but I don't know what it should do. Any ideas?

Note: I originally wanted to port Mlucas to the iPhone then realized that it probably wouldn't be very efficient and it's usage would most likely require a user who has a higher intelligence than the average iPhone user (for God's sake, many iPhone users are fascinated by a ball moving across their screen).

TF-LMH, especially real high, like OBD.

[QUOTE=flouran;178965]I was planning on writing an iPhone app this summer, but I don't know what it should do. Any ideas?

Note: I originally wanted to port Mlucas to the iPhone then realized that it probably wouldn't be very efficient and it's usage would most likely require a user who has a higher intelligence than the average iPhone user (for God's sake, many iPhone users are fascinated by a ball moving across their screen).[/QUOTE]GMP-ECM?

Just porting GMP and/or MPIR would be a Good Thing, IMAO.

Paul

Thank you for the replies. However, would someone mind explaining what GMP-ECM and TF-LMH are?
Also, since I have yet to look into these programs until someone explains to me why they want them ported, have they been coded for non-x86 processors?

Edit: I should also mention that one of the main reasons I wanted to port Mlucas because of the EFF prize; thus, people would be enticed to download it because of the prize money (I am talking about the layman here, not us). Perhaps, I may create a port of Mlucas and just upload it on [URL="http://code.google.com/"]Google code[/URL], and then smart people like the forum-goers here can follow the instructions to install it and can test the speed of the program on this thread and report their results (I may make a new thread about this.).

[quote=flouran;179005]Thank you for the replies. However, would someone mind explaining what GMP-ECM and TF-LMH are?
Also, since I have yet to look into these programs until someone explains to me why they want them ported, have they been coded for non-x86 processors?[/quote]
[URL="http://ecm.gforge.inria.fr/"]GMP-ECM[/URL] is an [URL="http://mersennewiki.org/index.php/Elliptic_curve_method"]ECM[/URL] app. TF-LMH refers to low bit level trial factoring of Mersenne numbers (in PrimeNet v5 the work type is called TF-LMH, making a reference to the Lone Mersenne Hunters project that did(/does?) this type of work).

gcc for iPhone
 

I found a port of [URL="http://code.google.com/p/iphone-gcc/"]gcc for the iPhone[/URL]; unfortunately, the header files are missing. However, a much easier way is to simply install Cydia and it comes with the iPhone toolchain and gcc. Hopefully then I will be able to compile Ernst's code.

However, I am not sure if this will work:
[CODE]
gcc *.c -o Mlucas
[/CODE]
I will let you guys know soon if it will compile! Any tips/tricks are welcome!

Any chance at porting Factor5 to eye-phone???
[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=7283[/url]

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;179194]Any chance at porting Factor5 to eye-phone???
[url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=7283[/url][/QUOTE]

It's doable; however, I don't see how it is as good or better than Mlucas in Mersenne exponent testing. Unless you can convince me otherwise of the pros of porting Factor5, I won't do it.

[QUOTE=flouran;179202]It's doable; however, I don't see how it is as good or better than Mlucas in Mersenne exponent testing. Unless you can convince me otherwise of the pros of porting Factor5, I won't do it.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I will try and port Factor5 only after I have ported Mlucas to the iPhone. If there is anyone willing to help me in any way, just PM me!

[QUOTE=flouran;179208]Actually, I will try and port Factor5 only after I have ported Mlucas to the iPhone. If there is anyone willing to help me in any way, just PM me![/QUOTE]

Hi flouran, I wrote Factor5 under GMP environment.
If you plan to port it on iPhone, feel free to contact m for any information you need.

Mind though that Factor5 only look for Mersenne numbers factors, doesn't check their primality. On the other side, it is quite simple to port (at least te mono-threaded version): just compile and run.

Luigi

[QUOTE=ET_;179232]Hi flouran, I wrote Factor5 under GMP environment.
If you plan to port it on iPhone, feel free to contact m for any information you need.

Mind though that Factor5 only look for Mersenne numbers factors, doesn't check their primality. On the other side, it is quite simple to port (at least te mono-threaded version): just compile and run.

Luigi[/QUOTE]

I will be sure to do so.
I should note that I will start porting Mlucas to the iPhone at the earliest around 11 pm tonight (my time). I will post when I start, and when I successfully finish. During that time period, I may post questions, so be there! :smile:

Google-Code
 

Here is the project on Google-code:
[url]http://code.google.com/p/iphone-mlucas/[/url]
When and if I can port Mlucas, I will let you know. I also plan to put the project on Sourceforge as well.

The process has begun!
I will keep you guys posted for updates!
Stay on this thread!

This is too risky to do on an iPhone that is not mine. Forget it. When and if I get an iPhone I will do it.

[QUOTE=flouran;179455]This is too risky to do on an iPhone that is not mine. Forget it. When and if I get an iPhone I will do it.[/QUOTE]

Thats why they invented emulators. It won't be fast but you can weed out the nasty crashes before you need to do speed testing.

[QUOTE=lfm;179461]Thats why they invented emulators. It won't be fast but you can weed out the nasty crashes before you need to do speed testing.[/QUOTE]

The reason why I thought it was too risky is that I have to first jailbreak (which I think is illegal? or at least partially legal?) the iPhone, and with it Cydia will be installed. In Cydia, I can install the iPhone ToolChain and gcc. However, jailbreaking can put the iPhone in recovery mode, meaning in order to get the settings back, I would need to restore the iPhone OS to factory settings and then restore the settings (I had hopefully backed up ahead of time). All of this was done on a relative's iPhone. Too risky.

Now, if I had an iPhone, I would be less scared. The iPhone 3G now has been lowered to a selling price of $99. Anyone know where I can buy it for cheaper?

Or should I buy an iPhone 2G for perhaps even less ;)

[QUOTE=flouran;179483]The iPhone 3G now has been lowered to a selling price of $99. Anyone know where I can buy it for cheaper?

Or should I buy an iPhone 2G for perhaps even less ;)[/QUOTE]

$199 plus $69.99 per month for the cheapest plan through the required 2-year contract is $1878.76 (see [URL="http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp"]AT&T[/URL] for more information).

If you could find it for a penny, that would lower its two-year price to $1679.77.

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;179500]$199 plus $69.99 per month for the cheapest plan through the required 2-year contract is $1878.76 (see [URL="http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp"]AT&T[/URL] for more information).

If you could find it for a penny, that would lower its two-year price to $1679.77.[/QUOTE]

That's the price for the iPhone 3G S. I am not talking about the new one that just came out. It's the old one I want (the iPhone 3G, no S).

[QUOTE=flouran;179502]That's the price for the iPhone 3G S. I am not talking about the new one that just came out. It's the old one I want (the iPhone 3G, no S).[/QUOTE]

The plan has the same cost regardless of which phone you use. If the iPhone 3G costs a penny, my "the phone costs a penny" analysis above holds.

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;179510]The plan has the same cost regardless of which phone you use. If the iPhone 3G costs a penny, my "the phone costs a penny" analysis above holds.[/QUOTE]
Umm...you said $199 + plan. With the iPhone 3G, it is $99 + plan.
Besides, I'm not going to be using it as a cell phone, so the plan is meaningless to me.

:iws:[QUOTE=flouran;179511]Umm...you said $199 + plan. With the iPhone 3G, it is $99 + plan.
Besides, I'm not going to be using it as a cell phone, so the plan is meaningless to me.[/QUOTE]

[quote=Uncwilly;179544]:iws:[/quote]
How is what I said stupid?? I simply will not be using the iPhone for its cellular purposes, but instead will be trying to port applications to it.

You [B][U][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="4"]have[/SIZE][/COLOR] to [/U][/B]buy a plan, which is the vast majority of the costs.
The cost of the phone is ~10%. You are trying to ignore 90% of the true cost.

[example (not to be construed as reality)]
I can get a 2 year lease on an H1 Hummer for 5000yen.
I can get a 2 year lease on an Insight for 10000yen.
H1 costs 750yen per month to operate.
Insight costs 200yen per month.

Insight total cost 14,800
H1 total cost 23,000.
Flouran, "I don't care, the H1 is cheaper!"
CRGreathouse, "A free hummer still costs more, it is more money to use."
Flouran, "I am going to drive it around and not pay for my gas."
[/example]

[quote=Uncwilly;179554]You [B][U][COLOR=Red][SIZE=4]have[/SIZE][/COLOR] to [/U][/B]buy a plan, which is the vast majority of the costs.
The cost of the phone is ~10%. You are trying to ignore 90% of the true cost.
[/quote]
Oh sh*t, really? Goddamn it.........
The reason I didn't know that is not because I am stupid but it is that I have never had a cell phone before. Since I'm mostly on my computer, I use email as my primary means of communication as well as a land-line.

My sincere apologizes for not knowing,

[quote=Uncwilly;179544]:iws:[/quote]I encourage folks, when they see a post whose well-intentioned content betrays an innocent lack of certain knowledge, to immediately supply or link to that knowledge, rather than do only a thumbs-down that doesn't enlighten anyone. It speeds up communication and saves bandwidth!

Of course, there may be disparate evaluations of well-intendedness and innocence. When in doubt, try kindness first, okay?

[QUOTE=cheesehead;179564]I encourage folks, when they see a post whose well-intentioned content betrays an innocent lack of certain knowledge, to immediately supply or link to that knowledge, rather than do only a thumbs-down that doesn't enlighten anyone.[/QUOTE]I thought that everyone knew this little bit of basic knowledge (at least anyone that was likely to want to try and program said phone).
This is a case where I mistook simple ignorance (lack of knowledge), for a blockheaded stuborness.
CRGreathouse [B]did[/B] provide a fine link in his/her first post in this thread, and used the word "required".
I therefore assumed (crazy me) the flouran read the whole post and followed the link in that post.
It appeared to me, therefore, to be a case of willing refusally to acknowledge facts in evidence. I know a few folks off-line that will do that.

The smilie was a smilie and not a screaming "you are dumber than....." or the like.

I apologize for an hurt feelings.

Since Flouran's application does not appear to require any of the telephonic capabilities of the iPhone, he could use an iPod-Touch instead. It has the same kind of processor and screen, but is missing some of the hardware and is purchased outright without any service arrangement/subsidy.

One aspect that will complicate this project is that iPhone applications are generally debugged on a simulator which runs on the standard desktop hardware. The simulator utilizes high-level-source compatibility rather than object-code emulation. As a result, the "high performance" math routines will be somewhat more difficult to debug.

[quote=Uncwilly;179572]I apologize for an hurt feelings.[/quote]I should've emphasized that, to me, the main effect was slowing down communications.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;179572]CRGreathouse [B]did[/B] provide a fine link in his/her first post in this thread, and used the word "required".[/QUOTE]

But apparently I still failed to communicate the required point, while you succeeded. I'd rather risk hurting someone's feelings than to have them spend $1700 when they think they're only going to spend $100.

[QUOTE=CRGreathouse;179592]But apparently I still failed to communicate the required point, while you succeeded. I'd rather risk hurting someone's feelings than to have them spend $1700 when they think they're only going to spend $100.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more.

[quote=Wacky;179580]Since Flouran's application does not appear to require any of the telephonic capabilities of the iPhone, he could use an iPod-Touch instead. It has the same kind of processor and screen, but is missing some of the hardware and is purchased outright without any service arrangement/subsidy.
[/quote]
Yes, I'd realized that too. According to [URL="http://www.apple.com/ipodtouch/"]Apple[/URL], iPod Touches are starting at $229. [URL="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=iPod+Touch&x=0&y=0"]A quick Amazon search[/URL] shows [URL="http://www.amazon.com/Apple-touch-Generation-LATEST-MODEL/dp/B001FA1NZK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246550239&sr=8-4"]that the cheapest one is $144.99[/URL]. I mean, the prices are reasonable (no doubt), but I just don't think it is worth it to purchase an iPod Touch for $145+S&H to develop free software. I've been an Open-source developer for almost 3 years, and although programming is thrilling, you still need to put food on the table. Even with PayPal (which is f***ing annoying) donations, I doubt I could at least match the amount of money I paid for the iPod Touch. I'm not looking to make money here, don't get me wrong, but I at least want the amount of money I pay for the iPod Touch to be worth it monetarily.
Maybe after Mlucas, I should port a math program that is well-known. Perhaps the resurrection of Zetagrid?
[quote=Wacky;179580]
One aspect that will complicate this project is that iPhone applications are
generally debugged on a simulator which runs on the standard desktop hardware. The simulator utilizes high-level-source compatibility rather than object-code emulation. As a result, the "high performance" math routines will be somewhat more difficult to debug.[/quote]
Yes, you are referring to Xcode. It is free from the Apple Developer site. Do you guys recall the [URL="http://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=11328"]Mlucas on PS3[/URL] experiment? Just as the port of Mlucas on the PS3 was not really fast, as will be the case for the ARM processor that the iPhone and iPod Touch have.

Not intending to criticize your project in any way, just out of curiousity: what is the expected battery life of an iPhone if it is utilizing 100% of its CPU all of the time? Is there such a thing as "nice-ing" a process on an iPhone or running at idle priority? Is it useable for any other purpose while running this app if not? Will anyone really want to use this app if it renders the principal use of their phone invalid (crazy me - I'm assuming someone buys a phone to talk to people)?

IANAiD ( IANA... iPhone Developer)

[quote=bsquared;179606]Not intending to criticize your project in any way, just out of curiousity: what is the expected battery life of an iPhone if it is utilizing 100% of its CPU all of the time? Is there such a thing as "nice-ing" a process on an iPhone or running at idle priority? Is it useable for any other purpose while running this app if not?
[/quote]
Your questions are valid ones. However, I cannot answer any of them since I have neither ported the program nor run it on an iPhone yet! When and if I do, I will post the performance results all to this thread.
[quote=bsquared;179606]Will anyone really want to use this app if it renders the principal use of their phone invalid (crazy me - I'm assuming someone buys a phone to talk to people)?
[/quote]
No, of course not. In the first place, other than the people registered on PrimeNet, who would even want to run Mlucas on their iPhone? Many users do not even know what a prime number is (let alone a Mersenne prime). And besides, I read somewhere that many successful apps are games. So even if it didn't render the principal use of their iPhone invalid, the Mlucas port would not be very popular.

Which is why I have been considering to instead port Zetagrid....
I know the project is defunct, but I am rather intrigued by RH. Imagine, not only would computers be running the program, but so would iPhone users (and the iPhone is pretty popular).

[QUOTE=flouran;179607]Imagine, not only would computers be running the program, but so would iPhone users (and the iPhone is pretty popular).[/QUOTE]

If computers outnumber iPhones 10-to-1 and outpower them 1000-to-1, you'd need a very high adoption rate to make any useful dent... and that analysis assumes the application is as optimized for the iPhone as for computers, which seems doubtful.

[quote=CRGreathouse;179608]If computers outnumber iPhones 10-to-1 and outpower them 1000-to-1, you'd need a very high adoption rate to make any useful dent... and that analysis assumes the application is as optimized for the iPhone as for computers, which seems doubtful.[/quote]
True. But the whole concept of Zetagrid seems interesting. I should note though that any math program written for a computer ported to the iPhone will be crappy, since optimization would take a long time and I do not have the expertise. So, this is mostly a fun project. Zetagrid is interesting and perhaps I may contact the head of the project for the code (supposedly 2.0 was supposed to come out but the project became defunct before then).

[quote=flouran;179607]
... So even if it didn't render the principal use of their iPhone invalid, the Mlucas port would not be very popular...

[/quote]

True. But speaking from the point of view of someone who has spent untold hours over the last 5 years or so developing a rather technically demanding program that has maybe a half dozen users world wide (and I'm amazed at that, even!), I would never discourage playing with or writing code simply because of a limited user base!

Carry on.

[QUOTE=flouran;179602]Yes, you are referring to Xcode. It is free from the Apple Developer site.[/QUOTE]

Xcode is the IDE. The simulator is an application that is part of the iPhone SDK, as are the necessary compilers, libraries, etc. The SDK is not free, but I have heard that some casual developers have banded together to share to ($99 IIRC) fee. I'm not sure just how "legal" those confederations are in the eyes of Apple.

It is highly suggested that you do not use "production" devices for debugging. Especially when you are writing new code, it is far too likely that you will find your device temporarily out of service while you reinstall all of the OS and applications after you have "trashed" things through some coding error.

keep in mind that the iphone have overheating problems, even with fairly normal usage (using it in the sun, or in a hot car)
[url]http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/07/02/apple-warns-of-summer-overheating-for-iphone-3g--3gs-owners[/url]

See this thread: [url]http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=14175[/url]