I am very happy now that we have a thread in this forum dedicated to the slaughter that is going on in Gaza. People are brutally murdered and tortured. The Israeli troops have largely been unable to find any Hamas men as they were all in hiding. Only the ones of the top echelon that they had tabs on and the units responsible for firing rockets were engaged and eliminated.

Now Hamas is back on the streets. Their first priority is to kill inhabitants of Gaza who were affiliated with Fatah when there is was more then one force in the strip. According to Fatah more than 100 people have been killed by Hamas in the aftermath of the Israeli invasion. Fatah also claims that at least 80 people have been shot in their legs and their arms broken for failing to abide a 'house arrest'. That number does not include the men who have been arrested and have been brought to hospitals where they were tortured, among other techniques, by pulling their eyes out. All of these claims come from Palestinian sources. Past experiences, like in 2006, are in line with these claims.

I am not a fan of Fatah, but I do think that those people who have spoken out for Hamas policies here should now state to what extend they are outraged by these events.

[quote=garo;159376]I agree with everything you say in the post.

[quote=cheesehead;159374]Two wrongs don't make a right.[/quote][/quote]My "two wrongs" referred to the pairing of the earlier "Gaza doesn't have a constitution with ..." comment and the "Nor evidently does Israel. ..." That is, I consider it "wrong" for either country not to have a constitutional provision similar to the U.S.'s Amendment 3.

It was also an (unexplained) allusion to the respective death threats made by each side's individuals about the other side's individuals, and to the other destructive dualities in the conflict, such as the endless cycle of revenge.

Readers are free to dismiss my "two wrongs" comment as trite or trivial. My intended message was in the sentences following it.

[quote=tha;159430]I am very happy now that we have a thread in this forum dedicated to the slaughter that is going on in Gaza. People are brutally murdered and tortured. The Israeli troops have largely been unable to find any Hamas men as they were all in hiding.[/quote]
You think that Israel slaughtered more than 1300 civilians, more than 450 of them children, because they couldn't find Hamas? Leaving countless injured and homeless? Israel made it very clear that their goal was to destroy as much civilian infrastructure as possible, not go after Hamas.

The infrastructure will be rebuilt. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has already promised Hamas more than half of the 1.9 billion dollars they need to rebuild. But the children who were slaughtered by Israel are lost forever. :sad:
[quote]Now Hamas is back on the streets. Their first priority is to kill inhabitants of Gaza who were affiliated with Fatah when there is was more then one force in the strip. According to Fatah more than 100 people have been killed by Hamas in the aftermath of the Israeli invasion. [...] All of these claims come from Palestinian sources. Past experiences, like in 2006, are in line with these claims.[/quote]Can you give more details about your Palestinian sources? I can't find this on any reputable news outlet.

tha: do you have any link for this claim. I did a search and could not find anything either. It's funny how you objected to the thread title when israelis were killing 1300 mostly civilians but find it useful to spread claims without any supporting evidence.

Some more comments by Israeli officials concerning their strategy.

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/19/middleeast-israelandthepalestinians[/url]

[QUOTE]As jurist [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amos_N._Guiora"]Amos Guiora[/URL], who served as a military lawyer in Israel for 19 years, has said: "Israel declared war on an organisation, and by extension on all those involved in that organization – [I]active and passive[/I] alike. (The italics are mine.) This is how Operation Cast Lead is different from all previous Israeli operations."
Senior IDF officers have already warned that the "third Lebanon war" will be in the same vein: more "disproportionate" than the second was. A heavily rearmed Hezbollah will not be the main target. Maj Gen Giora Eiland, former head of the National Security Council, [URL="http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:0fWHufkMyLMJ:www.inss.org.il/upload/%28FILE%291226472866.pdf+Maj+Gen+Giora+Eiland+hezbollah+lebanon&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk"]has gone as far as to say[/URL] that Israel failed in 2006 because it fought the wrong enemy – Hezbollah rather than Lebanon itself. "The only good thing that happened in the last war was the relative damage caused to Lebanon's population," he said. "The destruction of thousands of homes of 'innocents' preserved some of Israel's deterrent power. The only way to prevent another war is to make it clear that should one break out, Lebanon may be razed to the ground."
[/QUOTE]

@cheesehead:

Regarding asymmetrical warfare and your claim of the Palestinians "winning" the media war, here is a relevant article:

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/jan/14/israel-media-strategy-shows[/url]

Comments?

[quote=garo;159558]@cheesehead:

Regarding asymmetrical warfare and your claim of the Palestinians "winning" the media war, here is a relevant article:

[URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2009/jan/14/israel-media-strategy-shows[/URL]

Comments?[/quote]Different people have different opinions. I, too, noticed that Israel seemed to have improved its media face. (And, of course, one of their explicit goals this time was to shake the weak image they projected in the last Lebanon conflict.) I never said the Palestinians had captured the Most-Improved Award -- just that, to me, they had the overall media edge.

[quote]Two wrongs don't make a right.[/quote]No, but three lefts do.

:jokedrum:

[quote=cheesehead;159559] I never said the Palestinians had captured the Most-Improved Award -- just that, to me, they had the overall media edge.[/quote]

I think you are just plain delusional there. But that's just my opinion....

[quote=garo;159629]I think you are just plain delusional there. But that's just my opinion....[/quote]
I agree. The Palestinians haven't said much to the press. Some members of the press were possbly a bit annoyed and afraid of what the army was doing in there because they themseves became victims of breach of the Geneva Conventions when the Israeli army refused to let any journalists in to Gaza. Even after the Supreme Court of Israel had ruled that the army had to let journalists in.

In how many countries do the army have power to overturn rulings from the Supreme Court? In Israel and some dictatorships, of course, but not in any democratic countries.

[QUOTE=garo;159542]tha: do you have any link for this claim. I did a search and could not find anything either. It's funny how you objected to the thread title when israelis were killing 1300 mostly civilians but find it useful to spread claims without any supporting evidence.[/QUOTE]

Sure: [url]http://www.alhayat-j.com/[/url]