But coding a P2P system is way beyond GIMPS's coding abilities, not to mention it negates the primary pull of P95, which is just being a background program that uses CPU cycles and minimal bandwidth.

[QUOTE=James Heinrich;282213]At the time it was an untested exponent, given a decent machine to work on, M7,018,901 would've spent about [URL="http://mersenne-aries.sili.net/prob.php?guess_saved_tests=2&exponent=7018901"]0.06Ghz-days[/URL] on P-1. As [I]cheesehead[/I] said, the selected bounds can have a tremendous impact on the time spent. As it happens, [I]ckdo[/I] reports spending roughly 0.366GHz-days on the effort due to [URL="http://mersenne-aries.sili.net/prob.php?exponent=7018901&b1=445000&b2=13572500&factorbits=63"]higher bounds[/URL] (which were [URL="http://mersenne-aries.sili.net/7018901"]still insufficient[/URL] to find the factor that was found by TF).
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, James, for the info and the links.

If I read the information correctly, [I]ckdo[/I] has no shortage of [URL="http://www.mersenne.org/report_top_500/"]firepower[/URL] available. Thus, it leads one to wonder why such a tiny assignment[URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=282119&postcount=946"], reportedly[/URL] allocated in March, would have still not been completed well into December (as of the time that this discussion started). There must be a good explanation.

Rodrigo

[QUOTE=Rodrigo;282223]Thus, it leads one to wonder why such a tiny assignment[URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=282119&postcount=946"], reportedly[/URL] allocated in March, would have still not been completed well into December (as of the time that this discussion started). There must be a good explanation.

Rodrigo[/QUOTE]
It will be a case of making sure the machines are well stocked with future work. [URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=222205&postcount=454"]This old posting[/URL] offers some insight.

[QUOTE=Brian-E;282250]It will be a case of making sure the machines are well stocked with future work. [URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=222205&postcount=454"]This old posting[/URL] offers some insight.[/QUOTE]
Brian-E,

Not only does that old posting offer some insight, it offers a lot of insight -- thanks!

I take it that ckdo has very infrequent access to a powerful machine(s), and that's the reason he wants to stock up on assignments.

It's all much clearer now.

Rodrigo

[QUOTE=KyleAskine;282172]Do you? Not only this incident, but there was the other case where you tried to poach from a completely different project!! And you admitted you knew about it! [URL]http://mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=279785&postcount=121[/URL]

If you had found a factor the amount of wasted processor time would have been absolutely mammoth from NFS@home.

There are tons of numbers out there that have not been assigned to people to do whatever worktype you want to do. Don't be selfish. Think about the people who are working on the exponent. I would be pissed if I turned in a P-1 and was not given credit because someone else already found that factor with TF. Or if I was working on it and someone told me they had already done it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do! As I said, my definition of poaching is different, and I don't give a dime on yours. Sue me.

I admitted and I will always admit of occasionally poaching, I did that a couple of times. If I would turn it a factor for that, first: how do you know I would report it before nfs@home do? Well, I would, most probably, but how can you accuse me before I do something? Does it fit into your head that I could possible already have a factor for that number and keep silent? Assume I have one, should I report it and SAVE nfs@home of another 6 months of coming WASTING TIME, or continue to keep silent? (I don't have a factor for it, this just for the sake of the flame war that we are already fighting).

Assume you LL test an 100M or 1B exponent, a task that takes one (or more) year(s) with the hardware you have, and you are already half through it. Assume some guy, who has NO IDEA about gimps, or math, or factoring programs, but it has a fistful of luck, turns out a factor for your exponent, from the thin air. Should he report it and save you a half year of following futile work, so you can move on to some more useful things, as another exponent? Or should he keep silent and let you waste another half year of resources? Which is more selfish?

Now substitute "a guy with no idea" with "LaurV". Or any guy from here around. How does that change the equation?? Then substitute "LL" with "P-1" or "ECM". How does that change the equation??

It does not change. But we humans are very subjective. One guy wanting to go to a movie for which the ticket is 5 dollars, arrive there and finds out that the ticket is doubled in price, it is now 10, he will still buy the ticket and go to the movie, most of the guys. One guy having a ticket already, bought in advance, for 5 dollars, and arriving at the theater finds out that he forget his ticket home, he will not pay 5 dollars to get a new ticket, but it will return home to get it. In both cases the loss would be 10 dollars, for the same movie, but people are very subjective about it.

Running TF for exponents assigned to other people for longer jobs is NOT poaching, as long as you do not make this regularly and with a mean purpose. I did this few times in my 8-years GIMPS life, maybe 10 or 20 times, when I was particularly interested in some exponents, and I DO NOT consider myself a poacher.

[QUOTE=LaurV;282277]Assume you LL test an 100M or 1B exponent, a task that takes one (or more) year(s) with the hardware you have, and you are already half through it. Assume some guy, who has NO IDEA about gimps, or math, or factoring programs, but it has a fistful of luck, turns out a factor for your exponent, from the thin air. Should he report it and save you a half year of following futile work, so you can move on to some more useful things, as another exponent? Or should he keep silent and let you waste another half year of resources? Which is more selfish? [/QUOTE]
A problem that I see with this, there is no way for Joe user to tell Jane user that he found a factor, and that she should stop.

Which I already mentioned, but without jane and joe, in my first post on this thread. I said (not the same words, but the same idea): "you should write to him, so he can stop any work he eventually started, and move on to the next assignment".

If I would get a mail saying "hey, stop that LL (or P-1), I have a factor for your exponent!", then I would kiss the sender every time (most probably he won't like me kissing him, but that is a different story). He SAVED my time. But people do not want to understand that, and still crumple on that "credit". I like the credit, for making fun here around. Do someone need the credit I got by P-1-ing M2061? Well, tell me how to transfer it to you. Even George asked people to TF his exponents. What is the big fuss? Get it done, move on! No personal attachment.

I (this time the assignee) do LL or a long P-1. One wants to waste his time to TF my exponent? Be my guest! You can turn up a factor, so you will SAVE my time, and I can move on to next exponent. You can end up empty handed, then you wasted YOUR time. You should not do that, if you are sane, unless you have particular interest in MY exponent. There is nothing for me (the assignee) to lose, and nothing for you (the poacher) to gain.

What is not clear?

I (the poacher this time, when I was so) fully understood I would waste my time. I can give you a list with the expos I poached, because I STILL HAVE the same interest in them.

On the trivia front, I'm about to hit 100 P-1's and 2000 TF runs :smile:
6 P-1 factors and 21 TF factors.

EDIT: 22 TF factors. Another one just came in.

[QUOTE=LaurV;282279]If I would get a mail saying "hey, stop that LL (or P-1), I have a factor for your exponent!", then I would kiss the sender every time (most probably he won't like me kissing him, but that is a different story).[/QUOTE]Assume for a moment that I am LLing a 100M exponent and you TF'ed it to 80 bits and found a factor. [U]You would be unable to contact me.[/U](BTW my PrimeNet ID is not the same as for the forum). [B][I]That[/I][/B] is my point. Most PrimeNet users are unreachable. I don't think that George wants to play match maker. Nor is PrimeNet set to send such notifications. Nor is Prime95 set to receive such a notification.

Not that it's very much yet in the grand scheme of things, but just a few minutes ago, I found my second factor ever on a 57M range exponent.

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;282281]Assume for a moment that I am LLing a 100M exponent and you TF'ed it to 80 bits and found a factor. [U]You would be unable to contact me.[/U](BTW my PrimeNet ID is not the same as for the forum). [B][I]That[/I][/B] is my point. Most PrimeNet users are unreachable. I don't think that George wants to play match maker. Nor is PrimeNet set to send such notifications. Nor is Prime95 set to receive such a notification.[/QUOTE]
I also addressed this, when I said "what to do if the other user (assignee, thanks cheesehead) is an anonymous, or not a member". (@cheesehead: by "not a member", I was understanding the assignee is not a member on this forum, and you can not contact him. I saw your post with the question, but had no time to reply at that moment).

All in all, I will say it again:
1. I agree that people should not poach.
2. Poaching is BAD!
3. I do not poach.
4. I do not consider TF as poaching, unless you do it quite regularly, and with a mean interest, OR unless the other guy (the assignee) is also doing a TF job (that is stealing a TF job, to TF on it, which is even worse then poaching, is stealing!)

End of story.

It could happen occasionally, if you get a particular interest of one of the exponents. It happens to me (to "poach" other people) about 1-2 times per year.