[quote=Fusion_power;136173][URL]http://www.livescience.com/health/080617-hereditary-homosexuality.html[/URL]

Your link does not work cheesehead.[/quote]Thanks to you and Brian for the correction!

(I forgot my usual doublecheck of clicking on all links I post, after they're posted.)

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;135113]If I have the urge or feeling for my neighbor's spouse, I could choose to act on those fellings, or deny them power.
Similarly, any urge or feeling for any forbidden class of person, what have you.
Similarly, any urge or feeling for forbidden drugs, weapons, etc.

I consider my feelings and chose to act in a manner that is sometimes contrary, because I think that it is the right thing to do. I sometimes act in accordance with my feelings, because I think that it is the right thing to do.

Note, I am applying the controls to myself, not others.
[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Brian-E;136178]It would be really nice if this research could be confirmed and the constant burden of trying to convince people that we don't choose to be homosexual could be lifted from us![/QUOTE]This goes to the point of my previous point. If I have a genetic predispostion to drugs or alcohol, that does not mean that I should act upon the urge. If something in my up bringing or genetic make-up were to cause me to desire someone 'romantically' that is off limits, that does not mean that I should act on the impulse. (Many pedo's would say that they have some fundamental urge, not unlike that of a genetic addictive person or others.)

The control of self despite any desires (no matter what they may be, like yelling at people, kicking the dog, choking someone, ...) that we may have is a mark of a mature individual.

If those that have an opposite opinion from myself will please note, I am expressing my opinion, I have not been doing the rant saying people are sinning, nor am I demanding that it is my way or the highway. This is a discussion of opinions and ideas. Objections that I may have to GM does not mean that I am going out and protesting (like those that have been shown on the TV recently). I would try to force a homosexual to adopt a heterosexual life.

Uncwilly,

You are restating arguments which you stated before in the post of your own which you quote again above. You have not dealt with [URL="http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=135149&postcount=259"]my detailed reply[/URL] to that posting which - as I see it - exposes the poverty of your arguments. Perhaps you would like to comment now on my reply to you because otherwise this is just a shouting match instead of a discussion.

Brian.

There's hope for the USA in the run-up to the California referendum. I've just watched a video from this link [URL]http://www.gk.nl/index.php?id=9&a=bericht&bericht=5076[/URL] of a very emotional Mayor of San Diego announcing his about-turn and now supporting the rights of gay and lesbian couples to marry. Apologies for the Dutch language text - but the video link is obvious. Maybe someone else has more details from an English language site?

[quote=Brian-E;138095]There's hope for the USA in the run-up to the California referendum. I've just watched a video from this link [URL]http://www.gk.nl/index.php?id=9&a=bericht&bericht=5076[/URL] of a very emotional Mayor of San Diego announcing his about-turn and now supporting the rights of gay and lesbian couples to marry. Apologies for the Dutch language text - but the video link is obvious. Maybe someone else has more details from an English language site?[/quote]
Well, it seems the Dutch news site was making either a joke or a mistake in presenting this story as news. As pointed out by one of the people posting reactions, it's from September 2007. Sorry. :blush: I would normally have googled the story to check it myself, but gk.nl is supposed to be a reputable news site. Oh well, the video is still interesting for those like me who hadn't heard the story when it was news.

Best of Craigslist

"10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong" ;-)

[URL]http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/por/102351114.html[/URL]

[quote=cheesehead;144284]Best of Craigslist

"10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong" ;-)

[URL]http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/por/102351114.html[/URL][/quote]
Beautifully formulated list! Posted three years ago, I note - and to think we didn't see it before all the long drawn-out discussion here so far about exactly those 10 items. When you see the common-sense logic behind those standard arguments against gay marriage, there's just no answer is there?:grin:

[quote=Brian-E;144295]and to think we didn't see it before all the long drawn-out discussion here so far about exactly those 10 items.[/quote]However, pithy satire does not necessarily (indeed, probably does not) speak to the worldviews of those it satirizes.

[quote]When you see the common-sense logic behind those standard arguments against gay marriage, there's just no answer is there?:grin:[/quote]Alas, you may have inadvertently written something that both sides could agree with (one, sincerely, the other, satirically), there.

[quote=cheesehead;144314]However, pithy satire does not necessarily (indeed, probably does not) speak to the worldviews of those it satirizes.[/quote]
Indeed, and the use of irony/sarcasm also frequently fails to be understood across different cultures, nationalities and languages, as evidenced by...

[quote=cheesehead;144314]Alas, you may have inadvertently written something that both sides could agree with (one, sincerely, the other, satirically), there.[/quote]
...my failure in my attempt to echo the spirit of the irony of the author of your quoted list in a way which is understandable to you and probably most other readers.

Never mind, the list you provided was sufficiently well and, indeed, pithily written for its message to be delightfully clear.

[QUOTE=cheesehead;144284]Best of Craigslist

"10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong" ;-)

[URL]http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/por/102351114.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

Very humorous list. Surprisingly, I think it would be a great springboard to actual understanding on both sides. It would be fun to do the following experiment:

Step 1: List as many logical fallacies as you can find in the article.

Step 2: Wait a week. Have people who are for and against gay marriage review your list, and suggest ways to modify your points.

Step 3: List as many logical fallacies in your list (with or without any of the previous input) as you can.

Step 4: Wait a week....

Repeat.

[quote=Zeta-Flux;144385]Very humorous list. Surprisingly, I think it would be a great springboard to actual understanding on both sides. It would be fun to do the following experiment:

Step 1: List as many logical fallacies as you can find in the article.

Step 2: Wait a week. Have people who are for and against gay marriage review your list, and suggest ways to modify your points.

Step 3: List as many logical fallacies in your list (with or without any of the previous input) as you can.

Step 4: Wait a week....

Repeat.[/quote]
I like the idea. We would need to be disciplined about waiting the week each time (which I also agree with) so I suggest that the person who takes on the task of initiating step 1 and later step 3 literally writes the date in that posting on which he/she will go further.

We need someone to act as this moderator who carries out steps 1 and 3 each time. As someone with unequivocal views in favour of opening marriage to same sex couples, I am not suitable. I cannot even begin on step 1. While I know you have strong views on the other side, Zeta-Flux, I do however think you might be able to take on the function because you have good skills at summarizing arguments. Other contributors here also have good skills. Who shall it be? :smile: