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-   -   Economic prospects for solar photovoltaic power (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=16770)

kladner 2013-08-25 06:58

[QUOTE]Most peaker plants, to my knowledge, tend to be gas turbine (quick to start and stop), 'small' hydro like the ones mentioned, and landfill gas and biomass plants. There are likely some gas (not petrol) fired IC's too.[/QUOTE]

That is certainly true for capacity which has to be brought up somewhat unexpectedly. But the fluctuations through the day are somewhat predictable and tend to be cyclical. Some less responsive plants, like coal fired, can be online when a peak is expected.

I have no idea what the details of capacities and load times are in Chappy's situation. The implication I took was that another, larger such "water battery" could have carried over enough cheap night power to feed out at peak daytime demand, such that the coal plant he works at might have been taken off line.

chalsall 2013-08-26 17:12

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[QUOTE=kladner;350764]I have no idea what the details of capacities and load times are in Chappy's situation. The implication I took was that another, larger such "water battery" could have carried over enough cheap night power to feed out at peak daytime demand, such that the coal plant he works at might have been taken off line.[/QUOTE]

Lunch is over, but another energy storage technology to consider...

Distributed [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage"]Flywheel storage[/URL].

And, a graph of the "200 Volt" power input to one of my clients by the local electrical supplier for the last month....

chappy 2013-09-03 01:45

[url]http://www.nrel.gov/news/press/2013/2283.html[/url]

An extensive review of the probable future of renewables (mainly solar and wind) in the Western Continental US. Geothermal (something we haven't spent many pixels on) solves many of the problems of other renewables but won't be cost effective for some time.

only_human 2013-10-10 04:04

[URL="http://gigaom.com/2013/10/09/a-huge-solar-farm-with-molten-salt-storage-is-ready-to-go-live-in-arizona/"]A huge solar farm with molten salt storage is ready to go live in Arizona[/URL][QUOTE]When the sun is out full blast, the solar farm produces a lot of heat and pumps some of that into the molten salt tanks. When the sun goes behind a cloud, or at night, the farm can turn to the energy storage tech to offer power for another six hours.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]The power from Solana will be enough to provide electricity for 70,000 households, or 280 MW. Arizona’s largest utility Arizona Public Service (APS) will purchase all of the solar power from the farm.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]The farm cost $2 billion to build and was part of the controversial loan guarantee program from the Department of Energy. Abengoa was awarded a $1.45 billion loan guarantee in 2010 — the largest for clean power out of that program.[/QUOTE]This is a steam turbine instead of photovoltaic.

chalsall 2013-10-10 17:32

[QUOTE=only_human;355817][URL="http://gigaom.com/2013/10/09/a-huge-solar-farm-with-molten-salt-storage-is-ready-to-go-live-in-arizona/"]A huge solar farm with molten salt storage is ready to go live in Arizona[/URL][/QUOTE]

Very cool!

I've always thought that molten salt storage was a very smart idea, and have proposed it many times to the Government and the power Company here.

Unfortunately, the suggestion fell on deaf ears, although admittedly it is rather leading edge. Heck, Barbados is only now finally starting to get serious about photovoltaics (and the Company is trying to limit how much power is fed back into the grid :sad:)....

LaurV 2013-10-11 06:13

[QUOTE=only_human;355817]....molten salt.... steam turbine...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=chalsall;355861]Very cool![/QUOTE]
You are nuts! Than what is warm? Molten lava? :razz:

In fact, hmm... only 6 hours after sun goes down?!?!?
Maybe molten lava (or steel) would be better indeed! hehe...

chalsall 2013-10-11 08:07

[QUOTE=LaurV;355910]You are nuts! Than what is warm? Molten lava? :razz:[/QUOTE]

Plasma. :wink:

Uncwilly 2013-10-11 12:34

[QUOTE=chalsall;355861]I've always thought that molten salt storage was a very smart idea, and have proposed it many times to the Government and the power Company here.[/QUOTE][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Solar_Project"]This project[/URL] with hot rock and oil storage was completed in 1981.

only_human 2016-07-23 15:50

[URL="http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/As-heatwave-bakes-CA-solar-sets-a-big-record-8379331.php"]As solar floods California grid, challenges loom[/URL]
[QUOTE]Just after 1 p.m. Tuesday, large solar plants scattered across California produced a record 8,030 megawatts of electricity, according to the California Independent System Operator, the organization that runs most of the state’s power grid. That’s nearly twice as much solar power as California could generate just two years ago — and it doesn’t even count the electricity produced by hundreds of thousands of small rooftop solar arrays statewide.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]When electricity demand on Tuesday reached its peak, at 5:54 p.m., almost 29 percent of the electricity coursing over the grid came from renewable sources, according to the Independent System Operator.

For a brief time on May 16, renewables accounted for 56 percent of the grid’s electricity, according to the operator.[/QUOTE]

kladner 2016-07-23 16:56

[QUOTE=only_human;438587][URL="http://m.sfgate.com/business/article/As-heatwave-bakes-CA-solar-sets-a-big-record-8379331.php"]As solar floods California grid, challenges loom[/URL][/QUOTE]
That is really encouraging. I hope that CA is setting the pace for others to follow, as it has in the past. Even a brief peak over 50% is remarkable. Too bad it is more difficult to store actual electricity than it is to store heat. With large wind and solar-voltaic components in the supply, it is harder to get away from fossil peak generation.

When it comes to solar-thermal installations, I hope the central tower model does not expand too much more. Parabolic troughs don't burn birds, as far as I know.

xilman 2016-07-23 18:48

[QUOTE=kladner;438595]That is really encouraging. I hope that CA is setting the pace for others to follow, as it has in the past. Even a brief peak over 50% is remarkable. Too bad it is more difficult to store actual electricity than it is to store heat. With large wind and solar-voltaic components in the supply, it is harder to get away from fossil peak generation.[/QUOTE]I agree: really encouraging.

What would be even more encouraging IMAO (though I have no personal stake in the game) is for CA to generate enough excess electrical power and to use it in association with solar heating to desalinate (the local part of) the Pacific ocean. Otherwise the state may be in deep :poop: within a few decades, given the way in which the local climate appears to be developing.


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