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-   -   Do we have veg(etari)ans here? (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27207)

greenskull 2021-10-11 18:54

Do we have veg(etari)ans here?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I'm balancing vegetarianism and pescetarianism, by the way.
When I have fish for dinner, I feel terrible remorse, because I believe that no one should die to allow us to be full.

[ATTACH]25914[/ATTACH]

How do you feel about this?

Please don't throw your slippers at me :)
Just calmly and reasonably answer please.

a1call 2021-10-11 19:53

I went vegetarian for 3 years in my native Persia. I recall the smell of cooked meat would turn my stomach during this time. Then we moved to Montreal. It's much more temperate these days, but at the time the temp. would rarely go above -20 degrees C. for nine months a year. You can't survive on veggies for long at those temperatures.

Recently I have got interested in pickling mushrooms and supplementing that as a major portion of my diet.

[QUOTE]
Mushrooms are fungi. They belong in a [B]kingdom of their own[/B], [B]separate from plants and animals[/B]. Fungi differ from plants and animals in the way they obtain their nutrients. Generally, plants make their food using the sun's energy (photosynthesis), while animals eat, then internally digest, their food.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/publications/00029/mushwhat.htm#:~:text=Mushrooms%20are%20fungi.,then%20internally%20digest%2C%20their%20food[/url].

So a new categorization is in order. :smile:

Your feelings about cruelty of eating meat is shared by the majority of people when they are young, but then reality sets in. However it's a matter of time when humanity goes vegetarian as a whole, since that's what our ancestors were and technology is starting to make it possible with artificial meat products. Just wait a couple of generations. :smile:

greenskull 2021-10-11 20:55

[QUOTE=a1call;590182]I went vegetarian for 3 years in my native Persia[/QUOTE]
You're a wonderful person! :)

The general formula for photosynthesis is:
6CO₂ (carbon dioxide) + 6H₂O (water) + light = C₆H₁₂O₂ (sugar) + 6O₂ (oxygen)

Any plant consists of about 60..80% carbon, which it inhaled early as carbon dioxide.
It may sound strange, but plants grow mainly from ... air, and not from soil :)

And I have recently calculated how much oxygen is released by one of my largest gloxinia. I got about 15-20 liters per day.

The nutrition of mushrooms is more like the metabolism of animal life form. I've read about it.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-11 23:50

Vegetarianism has been around a long time. Early proponents include Pythagoras, but [url=https://vegsoc.org/about-us/world-history-of-vegetarianism/]according to the Vegetarian Society[/url] it goes back much further.

Some people become vegetarians for moral reasons, like avoiding cruelty to animals, or having respect for all living creatures. Vegetarians have long claimed there are health benefits to refraining from eating meat.

Contemporary examination indicates that over consumption of meat and highly processed edibles can have adverse health effects, as described by author Michael Pollan: [url=https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17725932]'In Defense of Food' Author Offers Advice For Health[/url].

I grew up eating meat and poultry frequently, and do enjoy good barbecued or smoked meat. Yum, yum! But to each his own. I consider refraining from eating meat (or red meat, or red meat and poultry, etc) perfectly respectable dietary choices, with perfectly sound reasons for adopting them.

Current livestock and poultry raising practices in the US have raised concerns about inhumane treatment of animals, as well as environmental concerns.

And the way meat prices have been going, I may become a "budgetarian vegetarian." As may a whole lot of folks. I tell you, looking at prices in the meat counter has me reciting the Mother Goose rhyme "Hey diddle diddle!"

The only type of animal I actually know how to catch, kill, and prepare for eating is fish. I don't have a problem with eating fish. After all, there are fish which, given the chance, would eat [i]me![/i]

a1call 2021-10-12 00:20

[QUOTE]
Fungivory or mycophagy is the process of organisms consuming fungi. Many different organisms have been recorded to gain their energy from consuming fungi, including birds, mammals, insects, plants, amoebas, gastropods, nematodes, bacteria and other fungi. Some of these, which only eat fungi, are called [B]fungivores [/B]whereas others eat fungi as only part of their diet, being omnivores.

...

One of the few extant vertebrate fungivores is the northern flying squirrel,[3] but it is believed that in the past there were numerous vertebrate fungivores and that toxin development greatly lessened their number and forced these species to abandon fungi or diversify.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungivore[/url]


[QUOTE]
A major food source for the squirrels are fungi of various species, although they also eat lichens, mushrooms, all mast-crop nuts, tree sap, insects, carrion, bird eggs and nestlings, buds and flowers. The squirrels are able to locate truffles by olfaction, though they also seem to use cues such as the presence of coarse woody debris, indicating a decaying log, and spatial memory of locations where truffles were found in the past.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_flying_squirrel#Diet[/url]


[QUOTE]

The [B]majority of Hindus are lacto-vegetarian[/B] (avoiding meat and eggs), although some may eat lamb, chicken or fish. Beef is always avoided because the cow is considered a holy animal, but dairy products are eaten. Animal-derived fats such as lard and dripping are not permitted.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.independentnurse.co.uk/clinical-article/religion-and-dietary-choices/145719/[/url]


The fact that Hindus are not any less healthy than meat eating people is an indication that the claim that a vegetarian diet lacks some essential vitamins is incorrect.


[QUOTE]
Although many humans choose to eat both plants and meat, earning us the dubious title of “omnivore,” [B]we're anatomically herbivorous[/B]. The good news is that if you want to [B]eat like our ancestors,[/B] you still can: Nuts, vegetables, fruit, and legumes are the basis of a healthy vegan lifestyle.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.peta.org/living/food/really-natural-truth-humans-eating-meat/[/url]

JWNoctis 2021-10-12 03:02

Humans are anatomically herbivorous? Oh I'd be glad to have a proper caecum & appendix, or a few more stomachs for that. Not looking forward for chewing cud (or worse, doing it as rabbits do) though.

But no, there's nothing wrong with a [I]balanced[/I] vegetarian/vegan diet. To my understanding, meat - or at least red meat - was a luxury for much of agricultural history anyway, especially outside Europe.

I myself try to avoid meat these days since it contributes to food shortage and climate change, and troubles me for more than just those.

a1call 2021-10-12 03:14

Anatomically we are primates. Sure, chimps enjoy occasional snacks of birds, but most primates are primarily vegetarian. With few exceptions such as k9 teeth, we are anatomically equipped to eat fruits, nuts and vegetation. Eating meat requires extra-anatomical processing such as skinning and cooking (for humans).
Just try to eat a cow or a sheep next time you see one without the use of any tools.

Dr Sardonicus 2021-10-12 03:30

[QUOTE=a1call;590199]<snip>
The fact that Hindus are not any less healthy than meat eating people is an indication that the claim that a vegetarian diet lacks some essential vitamins is incorrect.
<snip>[/QUOTE]One nutrient I've heard of being a problem in vegan diets is Vitamin B[sub]12[/sub]. It's an essential nutrient. AFAIK the only natural sources are animal-based foods. Lucky for vegans, there are commercially available vegan foods which are fortified with B[sub]12[/sub].

a1call 2021-10-12 03:54

[QUOTE=Dr Sardonicus;590206]One nutrient I've heard of being a problem in vegan diets is Vitamin B[sub]12[/sub]. It's an essential nutrient. AFAIK the only natural sources are animal-based foods. Lucky for vegans, there are commercially available vegan foods which are fortified with B[sub]12[/sub].[/QUOTE]

Yes that's the claim I was referring to. Hindus are not known to suffer (or have suffered in the distant past before the availability of vitamin supplements) any such deficiencies which would be quite serious if present. I assume the B12 deficiency claim is somewhat forgotten by now. I will do a search. :smile:

[QUOTE]
Conclusion:
Prevalence of vitamin B12 deficiency is 47% in north Indian population. People with diabetes have higher vitamin B12 levels than general population though still have high prevalence of deficiency. This data shows that Vitamin B12 deficiency is widespread in Indian population.
[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6540890/[/url]

[QUOTE]
A lack of vitamin B12 can cause neurological problems, which affect your nervous system, such as:
vision problems.
memory loss.
pins and needles (paraesthesia)
loss of physical co-ordination (ataxia), which can affect your whole body and cause difficulty speaking or walking.

[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamin-b12-or-folate-deficiency-anaemia/complications/[/url]


Something doesn't quite add up.

Perhaps milk is the missing variable:

[QUOTE]
Non-vegetarian food (meat, eggs, fish), milk and dairy products are the only dietary sources of B12 for humans. Vegetarians are at a higher risk, say experts. [B]Although milk and milk products are available to them to meet their B12 requirements,[/B] they don’t consume enough. Dr Naik suggests vegetarians consume four glasses of milk a day in the following ways: Drink one glass of milk, have a bowl of yoghurt along with lunch, down a glass of buttermilk around evening, and drink another glass of milk before bedtime.

[/QUOTE]

[url]https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/vitamin-b12-eludes-8-out-of-10-indians/articleshow/16248912.cms[/url]

ETA: BTW, I never took any supplements in the 3 years that I avoided meat all together and have never had any neurological symptoms of any kind. But then again I have never avoided dairy products. :smile:

LaurV 2021-10-12 05:12

[QUOTE=a1call;590205]Sure, chimps enjoy occasional snacks of [STRIKE]birds[/STRIKE] chimps...[/QUOTE]
FTFY

a1call 2021-10-12 06:03

Yep, that too. One of the very few animals which eat their own kind, unfortunately, (historically speaking at least) us included.
BTW, Where have you been. I thought you had changed forums or something.
Good to have you back. :smile:


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