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-   -   Want to buy an Android tablet, but also have the Android version be consistently updated. (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=24580)

jasong 2019-07-11 20:59

Want to buy an Android tablet, but also have the Android version be consistently updated.
 
I am absolutely sick of Samsung not keeping up with Android updates. As far as I can tell, their policy for updates is simply,"We've already got your money, so go **** yourself."

What's the best company to buy an Android tablet from if you want reasonably good hardware and reliable updating policies? Would I need to subscribe to an updating service?

Your advice is appreciated, even if you just send me to a website. :)

M344587487 2019-07-11 22:55

Good luck with that. I hear google Nexus devices are the best because they often aren't modified much from stock android, the other device manufacturer's tend to add their bloatware and that apparently takes months to years to never to do. Google don't have recent tablets AFAIK and Samsung are the next logical choice. Maybe someone more versed in android can help you out but I think you're out of luck.

VBCurtis 2019-07-11 23:58

I've been buying Google-brand phones the last 5-6 years for exactly this reason: I was angry that my Galaxy {whatevermodelnumber} was no longer getting updates, and Google pushes OS updates for many years for their own devices.
Alas, I believe they're out of the tablet market.

GP2 2019-07-12 00:14

[QUOTE=VBCurtis;521356]I've been buying Google-brand phones the last 5-6 years for exactly this reason: I was angry that my Galaxy {whatevermodelnumber} was no longer getting updates, and Google pushes OS updates for many years for their own devices.
Alas, I believe they're out of the tablet market.[/QUOTE]

Google has tiny market share for their phones, and they're probably afraid to increase it lest they attract even more antitrust scrutiny. Google also routinely kills products that don't get sufficient market share, and even some that do.

So I don't believe Google-branded Android phones are here to stay for the long haul, and the lack of security updates for all the rest is a dealbreaker. The only solution is to grit your teeth and take a wheelbarrow full of cash to the nearest Apple store.

VBCurtis 2019-07-12 00:21

I am reaching this exact conclusion! I'm afraid my next Pixel will be my last for the reasons you listed, and subsequent phones may be Apple. There's some shred of hope for a more open-source phone by then...

dcheuk 2019-07-12 02:03

Here's my story:

I was originally very "loyal" to Apple, owning nothing but iPhones (3g, 4, 5s, 6, 6s, 7, 8, x) and Macs only, until Apple screwed me over on a battery replacement (long story short, I sent in a working iPhone X for battery replacement, then I got an iPhone back that is all scratched up, no longer working, and Apple claimed that it was originally in that condition). After contacting them numerous times, through my state attorney and even the BBB, I received the same answer. At some point I received a signed letter from Apple's attorney basically says "you can take us to court, but we have infinite amount of resources."

After that I traded in all my personal Apple devices and switched over to Andriod. The first device I tried is Samsung Galaxy S9+. I don't use any digital assistant (for Samsung this is Bixby) so the extra button is very annoying. Also there are lots of bloatware on the Galaxy I noticed and it is almost frustrating how long Samsung took to upgrade Andriod 8 to 9.

Shortly I traded in The Galaxy for a Google Pixel 3 XL. The OS is stock with no modification (it's Google ... figures). If someone doesn't have a Google account or uses a lot of google services, then this is definitely not a phone for the individual. I also noticed that Google pushes out an update in the beginning of every month. The Apps are basically all Google services, Gmail app kinda sucks if you have another email other than Gmail. iOS overall does a better job imho.

I really like the clean Andriod though on the Pixel, but question: doesn't owning a Google phone screams "Google owns you now?" since they have all my location, email, contacts, calls and messaging history?

And yes, I don't know anyone other than myself that owns a Google Pixel.

Though, I am very jealous of Samsung's system wide dark mode, which is not yet available on Pixel. It is rumored to be implemented on Andriod 10.

VBCurtis 2019-07-12 02:45

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521375]
I really like the clean Andriod though on the Pixel, but question: doesn't owning a Google phone screams "Google owns you now?" since they have all my location, email, contacts, calls and messaging history?[/QUOTE]

I didn't worry about this for a long time, and now I'm very sad that Google is being so aggressive with advertising and data-gathering; more like I'm sad I chose Google as my overlord. Their recent tactics have converted me away from Chrome and to duckduckgo for search; tiny steps, more support for competitors than any actual independence from Giant G.

M344587487 2019-07-12 09:45

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521375]...
I really like the clean Andriod though on the Pixel, but question: doesn't owning a Google phone screams "Google owns you now?" since they have all my location, email, contacts, calls and messaging history?[/QUOTE]
Yes it does. You can take steps to de-google an android device (obviously not as good as not using one but it's something) and if you think this way you probably should. Root the device, replace the google apps with FOSS alternatives from F-Droid (the reason google don't need to modify android with their own bloatware is because it's already included), use a separate google account just for this device (compartmentalise your digital footprint so they at least have to work to connect the dots). Spend an hour locking every apps permissions and wonder why half of them need access to your text messages. Disable location, NFC, Sync, all the usual suspects. Then simply smash your phone with a hammer and get an old Nokia, problem solved.

retina 2019-07-12 10:09

It is amazing and depressing to me just how many people happily accept that companies like Goog, Appl, FB, etc. are relentlessly and maliciously influencing and exploiting them for as much as possible. Naturally it is all in return for all the "free" [strike]bollocks[/strike] "news" ... and to stalk their friends and enemies.

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dcheuk 2019-07-13 01:47

Well we are giving up some privacy for convenience. I don't think there's any product out there where the phone manufacture doesn't mine your data. If we are to care too much about privacy and security the best way to go is a flip phone without camera I guess but that would probably be very inconvenient for most people.

Best we can do? Use paid email services w/ PGP; disable all location services (or at least you think you did lol) on phone; boycott Google search or any products that based on privacy policies rather than end-to-end encryption (I think iMessage satisfies this requirement); shutdown all social media.

retina 2019-07-13 01:56

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521502]Well we are giving up some privacy for convenience. I don't think there's any product out there where the phone manufacture doesn't mine your data. If we are to care too much about privacy and security the best way to go is a flip phone without camera I guess but that would probably be very inconvenient for most people.[/QUOTE]I think you have another assumption there. A flip phone is also not required. I only have a desktop land line phone. Mobile phone not required.

Uncwilly 2019-07-13 02:20

[QUOTE=retina;521503]I only have a desktop land line phone. Mobile phone not required.[/QUOTE]If you have any windows, you can be spied upon. Even normal construction with standard framing can be penetrated without the need to tap the windows.

retina 2019-07-13 03:09

[QUOTE=Uncwilly;521504]If you have any windows, you can be spied upon. Even normal construction with standard framing can be penetrated without the need to tap the windows.[/QUOTE]Sure, but that requires line-of-sight.

Internet connected, and cell tower connected, devices can be tracked from the other side of the planet.

The number of potential watchers for the two cases is very different. One requires very deliberate physical positioning to achieve; the other can be done from anywhere..

xilman 2019-07-13 11:10

[QUOTE=retina;521506]Sure, but that requires line-of-sight.

Internet connected, and cell tower connected, devices can be tracked from the other side of the planet.

The number of potential watchers for the two cases is very different. One requires very deliberate physical positioning to achieve; the other can be done from anywhere..[/QUOTE]

If I were the prying kind, and thank the Lord I'm not, Sir, I'd take it as a challenge to find your lair, pour my derision on everything you do and expose every weakness, however carefully hidden.

With apologies to Anon and to Roger Waters.

retina 2019-07-13 11:18

[QUOTE=xilman;521521]... pour my derision on everything you do and expose every weakness, however carefully hidden.[/QUOTE]You would be amongst the good company of my minions if you did that.

LaurV 2019-07-14 06:22

I dream for the day when everybody spies on me and they show clips of my life on big wall TVs in the city and supermarkets.... I'd be a celebrity then, hehe.... But it would be a boring material, they will see me eating, sleeping, burping, farting, arguing with family members, peeing and shitting and occasionally masturbating in the bathroom...

I remember a story, maybe I told it here sometime in the past, but I am getting older and my memory is getting shorter...

Sometimes during the end of the last century I was leading a small team of guys taking care of a "computing office" (that is the name communists give to what you actually call "information system department", or IT, or MIS, in a company) in a [U]shoes factory[/U] in my hometown. No joke. They paid very well and I left a university job for it. At the time they still had a "room sized" mainframe computer, remnant from the communist era, with terminals in all the buildings, but the x86 PCs were taking over. Our mainly job was to compute salaries for about 5000 people working there (which were mostly paid by operation, according with their daily work, a hell of a headache), pulling wires (aten by rats) from the cabinets and walls, etc, but we also did interesting stuff, like programs to optimize the surface arrangement for cutting the leather (a lot of math! try arranging different form of shoes' leather on the leather coming out from the roll, and you see! And then, do that in a 8-bit Z80), which constituted a "big secret" at the time, we even held some patents for such a job.

Once I found a guy hacking into our systems. I was fresh from the uni, and having a lot of dreams in my head, and hacking other people's computers was something I could do very well, and I would not refrain doing it, if the situation required it, hehe. So, I cut the guy's access and insulated him as much as I could, and took the situation to the managing director (who was also owning over 50% of that business at the time).

He didn't believe me. His reaction was something like "who the fuck do you think you are? NASA? who would be interested in hacking a [U]shoes factory[/U]?".

Later on I found the guy, it was not a competitor, neither the Russian KGB, but a high-school son of somebody in the management, he used to come to his parent's office to play computer games, and he decided it would be much fun to play games with us. He got some ears pulled most probably, at least in the metaphorical sense (I hope, in the physical sense too, but I am not so sure about that).

But I learned an important lesson at that time, and now I am asking you (general you) in turn: who the fuck do you think you are? NASA? Who would be interested in hacking you? :razz:

retina 2019-07-14 07:05

[QUOTE=LaurV;521577]... now I am asking you (general you) in turn: who the fuck do you think you are? NASA? Who would be interested in hacking you? :razz:[/QUOTE]Everybody is interested in hacking you (the collective you). Yes, really.

Even the seemingly most mundane and boring person still has valuable data that [strike]leeches[/strike] marketing droids can use. And they will not hesitate to sell to someone else, anyone else.

Don't fool yourself into thinking "I am boring so therefore quite safe". Everyone has weak points. Things they don't want revealed. Things they don't want to lose. Things they want to protect.

One example: Do you (the collective you) have online banking? Then you are a target. Even if you (the collective you) say you have no money, your account can be still used for fraud by accepting illegal payments and doing transfers etc. And now you are deemed a criminal. Enjoy being Buck's plaything for the next five years.

dcheuk 2019-07-14 07:37

Letting data companies obtain your locations, emails, etc. for ad targeting and data mining is one thing, but letting someone else steal your banking, identity information or access to your camera/microphone is another thing.

Google probably knows more about us than how much we know ourselves (general speaking), that is okay (mostly because we let them). But we should definitely prevent our more sensitive information from the hands of hackers or e-criminals, or let them have control of our computer cameras/microphones.

But I do agree, at least for me, I am just some boring person, highly doubt anyone (or entity) high enough would be interested in hacking my devices. And if they really wanted to they probably can. Don't think any individual would stand a chance against big government entities like the NSA when they really want to hack your device.

Perks of being in the 21st century.

retina 2019-07-14 08:21

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521582]But I do agree, at least for me, I am just some boring person, highly doubt anyone (or entity) high enough would be interested in hacking my devices.[/QUOTE]It is done in bulk. Unless you are some super-high-profile person, then there isn't anyone sifting through details to pick their next target. It is all done automagically, by those new fangled computer thingies.

It might even the one of those "free" apps you installed. It might be [i]all[/i] of those "free" apps you installed. It might also be all those paid apps you installed. It will also be the OS.

LaurV 2019-07-14 10:09

[QUOTE=retina;521583]It will also be the OS.[/QUOTE]
Wrong, it IS the OS, haha. Man, for someone obsessed with these things, you are quite optimistic, placing that in the future. M$ and their competitors are sucking data from you using the OS's for ages. Word and Excel store data about the users who opened the files, even if you only viewed the file (no editing was done), and you distribute these data without your knowledge, when you share those files, etc. There are everywhere idiots "out to get you". We never doubted that. It is just that we do not give much of a ship, we trust our abilities to protect ourselves when it come to "important" things (like the mentioned, bank account, or masturbating in the bathroom :wink:) and we also have a reasonable level of trust in the system, and trust in society, and in evolution, in general. Of course there are weeds in any crop field, and there are suicidal guys (on long term, all "bad guys" are "suicidal", from the evolution point of view, think about, they believe themselves cleverer that the other people, and just do things ending up in them being caught, killed, marginalized, Darwin-awarded, etc., etc.) everywhere, and the wolves will eat the fur of the fox that can't take care of her own fur (Romanian proverb). But from here to, for example, "not owning a mobile because the bad guys can track me from the other side of the world", it is a long way. Who on the other side of the world (beside of people from the mersenneforum :razz:, who physically, in fact, all of you are on the other side of the world) gives a ship or what I am doing?

retina 2019-07-14 10:22

[QUOTE=LaurV;521587]... who physically, in fact, all of you are on the other side of the world) gives a ship or what I am doing?[/QUOTE]Probably no one I guess. But that isn't the point. It is about what you have (and can lose), and what you are worth to others as a source of income by giving your viewing time to adverts or providing a bank account to be exploited, or whatever.

M344587487 2019-07-14 11:58

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521582]Letting data companies obtain your locations, emails, etc. for ad targeting and data mining is one thing,
...[/QUOTE]A horribly insidious thing that is more of a threat to the average person than phishing.


[QUOTE=dcheuk;521582] Google probably knows more about us than how much we know ourselves (general speaking), that is okay (mostly because we let them).

...[/QUOTE]That is not okay. That a large chunk of those that had the nouse to think about it still thinks that it's okay shows how not okay it really is.

[QUOTE=dcheuk;521582]But we should definitely prevent our more sensitive information from the hands of hackers or e-criminals, or let them have control of our computer cameras/microphones.
...[/QUOTE]
Good luck with that when you're not the one in control of your sensitive information.



[QUOTE=dcheuk;521582] But I do agree, at least for me, I am just some boring person, highly doubt anyone (or entity) high enough would be interested in hacking my devices. And if they really wanted to they probably can. Don't think any individual would stand a chance against big government entities like the NSA when they really want to hack your device.

Perks of being in the 21st century.[/QUOTE]
It's a fallacy to think about super spy nonsense when it comes to privacy, it frames the discussion wrong from the get go. Privacy is incredibly important from a personal perspective and from a collective. Even anonymised telemetry is damaging, it's not for our benefit and IMO should be resisted as much as is reasonable.


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