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-   -   Mersenne number factored (disbelievers are biting elbows) (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19407)

CRGreathouse 2014-06-17 19:45

[QUOTE=chalsall;376066]Until a statement is proven false it might still be true. Or its state may be unknown.[/QUOTE]

Indeed.

Gordon 2014-06-17 19:48

[QUOTE=science_man_88;376065]because you made a claim that you knew 100% that it was not completely factored. which in theory means you know it to be composite, because you know all the PRP's factors is off the table if it is indeed composite, Because, this means you know the full factorization of the number originally talked about. Your turn to prove it can not be a prime.[/QUOTE]

I don't have to prove anything, I didn't make the unprovable claim of completely factored.

Gordon 2014-06-17 19:49

[QUOTE=chalsall;376066]Until a statement is proven false it might still be true. Or its state may be unknown.[/QUOTE]

True/False isn't a tri-state affair.

science_man_88 2014-06-17 19:51

[QUOTE=Gordon;376068]I don't have to prove anything, I didn't make the unprovable claim of completely factored.[/QUOTE]

unprovable and unprovable in our life time are two completely different things.

I'd argue you might want to reconsider as you also made a claim that you knew something 100% certainty , that is really the part of the completely factored argument you are going after.

science_man_88 2014-06-17 19:53

[QUOTE=Gordon;376069]True/False isn't a tri-state affair.[/QUOTE]

what about simply unproven ?

Mini-Geek 2014-06-17 20:03

[QUOTE=Gordon;376069]True/False isn't a tri-state affair.[/QUOTE]

"MM127 is prime" is a statement that is either true or false. Its value is knowable, in theory (simply run an LL test). Its value is unknown, and hypothesized by many to be false.
So you're right: obviously it's a completely binary affair. But we don't know which, so it can be considered a tri- or poly-state affair (unknown, conjectured true, conjectured false, etc.).

Gordon 2014-06-17 20:10

[QUOTE=science_man_88;376070]unprovable and unprovable in our life time are two completely different things.

I'd argue you might want to reconsider as you also made a claim that you knew something 100% certainty , that is really the part of the completely factored argument you are going after.[/QUOTE]

Unprovable or in our lifetime for anyone reading this IS the same thing on any practical basis as WE will never know :smile:

Until the original claimant presents their proof of primality, then it is composite. what I said was logically true. If a little inconvenient for some.

Gordon 2014-06-17 20:11

[QUOTE=Mini-Geek;376072]"MM127 is prime" is a statement that is either true or false. Its value is knowable, in theory (simply run an LL test). Its value is unknown, and hypothesized by many to be false.
So you're right: obviously it's a completely binary affair. But we don't know which, so it can be considered a tri- or poly-state affair (unknown, conjectured true, conjectured false, etc.).[/QUOTE]

..and in a binary state anything not true is by definition false. :mooc:

alpertron 2014-06-17 20:15

[QUOTE=Gordon;376073]Unprovable or in our lifetime for anyone reading this IS the same thing on any practical basis as WE will never know :smile:

Until the original claimant presents their proof of primality, then it is composite. what I said was logically true. If a little inconvenient for some.[/QUOTE]

An integer number greater than 1 is prime or composite independent from proofs. At this time it is not known whether that big number is prime or not. So we do not know whether it is composite or not. It is wrong to claim that it is composite because you have not presented any proof for that.

It is also wrong to say that the number cannot be proved prime or composite in our lifetimes, as shown in posts #53 to #55

chalsall 2014-06-17 20:15

[QUOTE=Gordon;376069]True/False isn't a tri-state affair.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it is.

Read up a bit about quantum uncertainty.

chalsall 2014-06-17 20:27

[QUOTE=Gordon;376074]..and in a binary state anything not true is by definition false. :mooc:[/QUOTE]

Are you familiar with the concept that nothing can be proved, but only disproved?


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