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M29 2007-10-26 23:58

[QUOTE=Mr. P-1;116155]I'm in the UK.

Everyone I know who has expressed a view on the subject thinks Bush is malicious, stupid, and a menace to the world.[/QUOTE]That reminds me of a dumbfounded, doe-eyed Pauline Kael saying "But everybody I know voted for McGovern!?" after he lost every single state but Massachusetts and DC to Richard Nixon.

I'm in Sweden.

People will politely ask about Bush, often referring to some leftist tirade that puzzled them. (For example: Is Bush planning to nuke Iran soon like Seymour Hersh said?). I give them a straight answer and the discussion often progresses to what can Sweden learn from the States about integration because in Europe it is a disaster.

I visit friends in Denmark. There is always a large dinner party, and they always plan an ambush, for which I have, so far, always been ready. We are all friends, but the discussions are serious. It is me against them all.

Rather, it is me against them all until after dinner. Then individuals come up to me privately. It turns out that a minority of alpha males dominate the debates and browbeat any dissenters.

philmoore 2007-10-27 01:04

[QUOTE=M29;117168]I give them a straight answer.[/QUOTE]

I'm just curious what your "straight answer" is, Luke?

I don't have much experience with Scandinavians, but my experience with the Dutch is that they are much less intimidated by political discussions than Americans. Americans tend to feel that they have failed if they haven't converted those whom they disagree with to their side, the Dutch seemed much more comfortable with "interesting, I don't see it that way."

Jens K Andersen 2007-10-27 01:13

[QUOTE=M29;117168]That reminds me of a dumbfounded, doe-eyed Pauline Kael saying "But everybody I know voted for McGovern!?" after he lost every single state but Massachusetts and DC to Richard Nixon.[/QUOTE]
This alleged quote is discussed at [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Kael#Nixon_.22quote.22[/url].

M29 2007-10-27 11:30

[QUOTE=Jens K Andersen;117172]This alleged quote is discussed at [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Kael#Nixon_.22quote.22[/url].[/QUOTE]OK, that reminds me of an alleged quote erroneously attributed to a dumbfounded, doe-eyed Pauline Kael saying "But everybody I know voted for McGovern!?" after he lost every single state but Massachusetts and DC to Richard Nixon. :smile:

M29 2007-10-27 12:00

[QUOTE=philmoore;117171]I'm just curious what your "straight answer" is, Luke?[/QUOTE]My answer was all governments and militaries have thousands of contingency plans and there was probably one to nuke Iran. And perhaps another to nuke Denmark.

I also told him that if Bush nuked [U]any country[/U] there'd be massive uprisings in the States the likes of which we've never seen. I'd be one of the first, and my ultra conservative mother would be right behind me. The government would come close to falling.

The exception would be if Bush was responding to a nuclear attack, such as the French have said they would do.
[QUOTE=philmoore;117171]I don't have much experience with Scandinavians, but my experience with the Dutch is that they are much less intimidated by political discussions than Americans. Americans tend to feel that they have failed if they haven't converted those whom they disagree with to their side, the Dutch seemed much more comfortable with "interesting, I don't see it that way."[/QUOTE]I don't have much experience with the Dutch. Just the Danes and Swedes.

I tend to feel that I have failed if I have been unable to explain myself properly.

I had a recent conversation with a Dane. He was perfectly at ease with factions of his government scheming to avoid a second public referendum on the EU constitution. He dismissed the issue saying "We have experts to make those decisions for us".

"interesting, I don't see it that way."

could mean "interesting, I haven't been told that."

or "interesting, I haven't been told to believe that."

or "I'm bored. would you like some cheese?"

tha 2007-12-29 23:29

[QUOTE]I was wondering what all you folks from countries other than the United States of America think about the current candidates for President here.[/QUOTE]

OK, one voice from The Netherlands here. Since continental Europe has equal representation election schemes instead of district schemes it is always a bit difficult for us to make a choice. We are used to have a choice on the ballot ticket between a dozen political parties rather than just two. So for now, let's just focus on both the election within the Democratic party and within the Republican party and leave the choice between them for a later time.

In this post I will bring forward my thoughts about the candidates of the Democratic party, limited to Clinton, Obama and Edwards. One issue has been tale telling about the candidates being ready for the office or not: handling Iran.

George W. Bush threatened the regime headed by Ali Khamenei publicly and behind the scenes in no uncertain terms with a full scale WWIII. The regime in Teheran countered these threats one on one while maintaining an extensive number of guerrilla wars in the Middle East, Europe and elsewhere. At the same time Bush negotiated with Teheran about a split of power in the Middle East, fully aware of the many asymmetric weaknesses and strengths of democracies and dictatorships. Finally the Iranians promised some sort of reigning in their forces, most notably in Iraq, but also elsewhere. (As a side note: carefully watch the negotiations between Olmert and Abbas, some things have REALLY changed, this is very different from everything we have seem before.) Bush has responded by taking the military option off the table [B]for the moment[/B]. If Iran continues to withdraw forces from countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Belgium, etc. etc., there may be more goodies in store for them. Point is, without the many aircraft carriers that were send there, and without the detailed war preparations, this result would never have been attained. The candidates Edwards, Obama and Clinton were very well informed about both the war preparations and negotiations with Iran. And only one of them took into account the chance that he/she might have to take over power and be the person to use the big stick that the US forces are. The other two gambled the nation on the issue in order to surf the wave of tiredness the Iraq war created among the US population.

I can only see Hillary Clinton as commander in chief, and not any of the other two.

garo 2008-01-01 18:02

[QUOTE]Point is, without the many aircraft carriers that were send there, and without the detailed war preparations, this result would never have been attained.[/QUOTE]

Can you provide some evidence to support this statement? Thanks.

tha 2008-01-03 17:17

I had some more trouble sorting out the republican candidates than the candidates of the democratic party. I ended up favoring John McCain, simply because of his experience in office.

R.D. Silverman 2008-01-03 18:01

[QUOTE=M29;117186]OK, that reminds me of an alleged quote erroneously attributed to a dumbfounded, doe-eyed Pauline Kael saying "But everybody I know voted for McGovern!?" after he lost every single state but Massachusetts and DC to Richard Nixon. :smile:[/QUOTE]


Yep.

Don't blame me. I *AM* from Massachusetts. And I did vote for McGovern.

ewmayer 2008-01-03 19:45

I'm rather torn at the moment - I was prepared to support Obama, in no small part because he's the only one of the major candidates who is not a millionaire [url=http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/gallery.candidates.moneymag/index.html]many times over[/url] and thus conceivably has some credibility when talking about the issues working folks face, but OTOH given what I believe is going to happen to the US economy this year ... I wouldn't wish that on anyone I didn't utterly despise.

Zeta-Flux 2008-01-03 20:22

Wish me well. I'm off to caucus here in Iowa this evening. We'll see how that goes.

ewmayer, you present an interesting criterion for picking a president. I've never heard that one before. Do you really feel that not being a millionaire makes one a better candidate? My feeling is that they'd be more prone to corruption (not having previously dealt with money issues--similar to how lottery winners react to their new-found wealth) and/or be inexperienced at dealing with "growing the economy". At least with the millionaires one can look at their past record in terms of money matters.

I went to listen to Mike Huckabee and a large part of his presentation was painting himself as someone coming from a humble background...the first male in his family to graduate from high school, etc... This too didn't much appeal to me, but maybe that's because my dad went to college and yet (in spite of this?) still taught us how to live right. *shrug*


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