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-   -   Poker and reasoning. (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=23466)

jwaltos 2018-06-25 03:42

VB,
No need to call me Mr. You are also someone within this forum whose posts I read and learn from.

Dan Negreanu has been up here a few times for various reasons and played at the local casino. He played blackjack and the smallest poker game there. At the BJ table I asked him what made a great poker player and he said "No fear." I also met him at the first Leafs and Knights game of the year in Vegas...he is a Knights fan and I had to say that they outplayed the Leafs that night. Years ago, I remember seeing Chip Reese, Brunson, Ivey and other pros playing in the back room at the Bellagio...it was an interesting sight.

If you wish to pay less tuition at the tables, join CardsChat and the PokerStars school. Good advice and a place to test what you learn.
My goal now is to only play in the biggest games and qualify for live events. Good luck in your games ...except if you and I are at the same table;)

VBCurtis 2018-06-25 05:51

I was pretty active on the twoplustwo forums back before Black Friday. I haven't played online since, and only make time for 80-100 hrs of live poker a year. That lack of practice is what prevents me from moving above $20/40 stakes; I'm up something like 100 bets in 150ish hours at 15 and 20 games. I need more technical ability and applied game theory to even dabble in 40/80.

Bobby's Room at Bellagio still has the big game; it varied from 1000/2000 to 4000/8000 while I was there last week. When I arrived Thursday, there were NINE tables going at Bellagio of $200/400 or bigger! It was weird to see folks I recognised from TV out on the main poker floor, playing with $25k+ in front of them. "Hey, cool, I can sweat Johnny Chan! He's playing $400/800 two tables away."

jwaltos 2018-09-04 03:09

A long while ago I remember sitting beside a model who had a diamond the size of half a walnut on her finger at the Bellagio. I didn't know if there was a Victoria's Secret convention taking place but there were many more "better than average" looking women poker than what I was accustomed to at that particular time.

I've been playing a lot of micro games and researching what's out there in terms of good poker software. This includes both the allowed and forbidden software that exists to determine what kind of mathematics forms its backbone.

jwaltos 2018-10-10 05:45

There are a couple of downloadable MIT open course zip files from 2015 and 2016 which give a good overview of what is required to play (hold'em poker) appropriately. During Chen's video presentation (contained in one of the files) he describes a poker problem which has been solved. He also alludes to work done at the U of A.

There are numerous statistics relative to card strength, bankroll management, opponent assessment..which must be continually monitored. As a relatively new player I managed to place 301st from approx. 5500 entrants in a Poker Stars Sunday Million game recently. If I am able to repeat and improve upon this initial benchmark several more times then some of the theory I have absorbed has been properly implemented.

jwaltos 2018-11-08 21:14

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yC710q2ohA&feature=youtu.be[/url]

I saw a post in another forum recommending this You tube link for some poker bot discussion between two professional players. I watched pieces of this and though I did not see any discussion about poker bots I did appreciate the discussions that centered on psychology founded on mathematical reasoning. For those who have been as curious as I have regarding how mathematical reasoning is implemented in specialized ``poker`` software, the term GTO was used in the discussion referencing a live game. Another, almost scary, aspect of this discussion is the kind of money wagered on such ``games.``

jwaltos 2019-09-14 04:18

[url]https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/359/6374/418.full.pdf[/url]

Here is an article for anyone that has played against a pokerbot either unwittingly or knowingly. When these things start getting migraines then I will begin to get concerned...
As always, it's a good idea to peek under the curtain and look at the wizard: [url]http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/[/url]

e pluribus unum

jwaltos 2019-09-14 06:19

Here is a quote from the last paragraph of a related NYT article:

"...The success of Pluribus showed that poker can be boiled down to nothing but math, Mr. Elias said: “Pure numbers and percentages. It is solving the game itself.”

Many years ago when I was competitive springboard diver, our coach would end our practice when we would "nail" or "almost nail" a challenging dive. I think these last two posts have "nailed" the intent of this thread.

Going back to Libratus, here is a link which contains a decent explanatory video:
[url]https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/10/libratus-ai-poker-winner/[/url]

LaurV 2019-09-16 04:56

Maybe not much related, during '92-'96 we wrote a firmware for a poker slot machine, which was "tuned" to make money. The machine was playing "probabilistic", when it was ok with the money, or even random, but it was starting to cheat and cheating more and more heavily when it was getting "closer to the boundary". The house always grabbed a 10% or 20% of the money the machine was turning in and out, or whatever was "allowed" (by the law, or whatever, we are the programmer, not the lawyer, neither the sociologist, nor the mother of wounded/stupid people :razz:). Interesting enough, some of those machines are still in use, in spite of many problems they have from the mechanical point of view (generally, half-drunk guys who lose money are not kind with the machine, you guess!). Which prove that the owners still make enough money from them to go through the effort of keeping them going. People occasionally win some money, and this keeps the "geniuses" coming to play. Which in turn, proves that the mother of stupids is always pregnant.

retina 2019-10-11 12:14

Poker cheat
 
[url]https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/4/20899034/poker-cheating-mike-postle-stones-gambling-hall-twitch-no-limit-holdem-sacramento-veronica-brill[/url]

I saw a clip where the (alleged) cheat is playing PLO. He is sitting with his phone on the chair between his legs. The RFID system on the table that reads that cards has not been updated correctly for PLO and is only registering two cards for each player instead of the four they have. This appears to be a temporary configuration error on the part of the casino.

So the cheat looks at his crotch, and thus at his phone. Then he moves his cards over the reader. Then looks back at his crotch. Then he spreads all the cards out over the reader again. Then looks back at his crotch. Then he waves all the cards out over the reader again. Then looks back at his crotch. But the system isn't reading those last two cards. Clearly he is trying to get the final two cards to read. He is trying to somehow get the system unstuck and read the remaining two cards. Then he would be able see all the opponents cards. But it isn't happening, and he finally gives up and plays like a normal human again for that hand. However he still knows two of the four cards his opponents have, so he still has a large advantage.

Now the question is how could he possibly know the cards aren't being read? He can't know, in theory. It is supposed to be privileged information not available to the players during the game.

That is just one hand. For the 7-card hold'em hands he makes bizarre plays that are always the correct play [i]if[/i] you knew the opponents cards.

So he has hacked into the casino system and is able to know his opponents cards. He is streaming that info to his phone. He keeps his phone hidden from others by placing it on his chair under the table. In every hand he is constantly looking at his crotch at critical moments when the cards are dealt. And also at times when the cards missed the reader and he is waiting for the other player to finally move the cards into position over the reader so he can learn what those cards are.

retina 2019-10-12 03:03

And it gets better
 
In the post session interview after the PLO game above, the cheater goes into the booth and sits down and asks "What happened in that game where only two cards were read?" There is no way he could have known the system wasn't working for that game, unless he was watching the system.

In another interview he is being asked about one of this completely bizarre plays that no one can understand, but which is obvious if you know what the opponents cards are. So he is waffling on about vague nonsense and at one point says "Well I wasn't sure what their other cards were ... " Any normal player wouldn't be sure what their other cards were, and there is no need to even say that, it should simply be understood. The only reason to say that is if you are trying to cover up your knowledge and feel it is important to state that you didn't know it.

He only ever plays the streamed games. He is there thirty minutes before the start on his own at the table doing nothing waiting for the game to start. He won't play at the other tables. And after the streaming session has ended he packs up his chips and leaves while everyone else continues to play on.


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